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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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Old
06-06-2013, 04:11 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
And Bryzgalov is at .909 and .900 under Laviolette but we want to amnesty him.
SWEET, lets send both of them to the Canes..


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06-06-2013, 04:37 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Ward still outperformed his backups by a clear margin under Lavi. Bryzgalov can't even manage that, and that's a tremendous red flag.

Even ignoring his play, it's worth amnestying Bryz just to make that contract go away.


Bryz: .909 sv%, 2.48 GAA
Bob: .899 sv%, 3.02 GAA

I'd say that's significantly outperforming your backup.

I wonder what ever happened to Bobrovsky once he stopped playing for Philly...

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06-06-2013, 04:39 PM
  #303
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Uhm yeah, Ward was at least breaking into the league at that point opposed to Bryz being in the league 7 years before he got here.
That has no relevance to the fact that Laviolette's system is a goaltenders nightmare.

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06-06-2013, 04:48 PM
  #304
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That has no relevance to the fact that Laviolette's system is a goaltenders nightmare.
It does, it usually takes young goaltenders a couple of years to adapt to the league and get their consistency down. There's not many that come in right away and light world on fire and stay consistent.

System or no system, Bryzgalov was a fraud. Lavi wasn't the one letting in soft goals or not making clutch saves the last two years.

If his system was so bad we shouldn't have won a game with Leighton and Boucher in net a couple of years ago.

Blaming Lavi for Bryz's failures is laughable.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-06-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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06-06-2013, 04:50 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post


Bryz: .909 sv%, 2.48 GAA
Bob: .899 sv%, 3.02 GAA

I'd say that's significantly outperforming your backup.

I wonder what ever happened to Bobrovsky once he stopped playing for Philly...
It could be this crazy thing called development for all we know, it has a tendency to happen to younger players.

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06-06-2013, 04:58 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post


Bryz: .909 sv%, 2.48 GAA
Bob: .899 sv%, 3.02 GAA

I'd say that's significantly outperforming your backup.

I wonder what ever happened to Bobrovsky once he stopped playing for Philly...
You and I both know Bob was still pretty raw. He was still adjusting to an NHL schedule. Like the year before, he was really good for the first half of the season and then hit a wall in the second half. Looks like he figured out how to pace himself better this year.

That has nothing to do with Lavi and everything to do with Bob being a young second year goalie.

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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
That has no relevance to the fact that Laviolette's system is a goaltenders nightmare.
Then how did this system manage to drag MFL to game 6 of the Finals?

The system can work if it has players who know how to play defense. Right now there aren't many players who are strong defensively. Even when they tried the whole "defensive shell" thing for a few games after the 5 day break, it was clear the forwards just weren't meant for it and Bryz still allowed weak goals.

Bryz is just bad. Drop him onto the Rangers and he'd still be bad. Drop him into the Kings and he'd still be bad.

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06-06-2013, 05:51 PM
  #307
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Here's something that has been discussed a lot on the trade/rumor board and I wanted to see what the rest of you thought.

Gormley + 2nd for Couturier.

Now I'm not a fan of trading Coots and I personally reject 99% of the trade proposals for him but this one intrigues me. I think it's fair for both teams.

While I'd like a guy more proven than Gormley it's just not realistic that we can find one. Gormley definitely has the potential to be a top pairing PMD with good offensive ability and if Schenn continues to progress they could give us a legit top pairing for our blueline to be built around. Gormley could very well be the long term replacement for Timonen that we've been looking for. While we'd still need to find someone to fill that role for the 3 or so years while Gormley is developed he is probably the most realistic option in a trade. He's progressed well since his draft and is ready to make the jump to the pros next year most likely in the AHL.

We'd still have our 1st this year and with it we wouldn't have to focus mainly on defense, we could draft a top end forward talent to replace Coots if we needed and felt one was available. We could also look to add even more defensive depth if we go dman.

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06-06-2013, 05:59 PM
  #308
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Please don't trade couturier for anything short of a potential number one defenseman

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06-06-2013, 06:06 PM
  #309
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Please don't trade couturier for anything short of a potential number one defenseman
Gormley has that potential. If a guy was a bonified triple threat dman then Couturier wouldn't come close to being enough to get him (and he wouldn't likely be available for anything short of Giroux).

Gormley has top two written all over him. He'd make our defensive prospects probably our strongest pool.

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06-06-2013, 06:07 PM
  #310
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I don't see the point of trading Couturier for potential. It does nothing to help us out now.

I rather just hold onto him. If I was to move him I would hold onto him until after this year and hope he can get his value higher.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-06-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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06-06-2013, 06:26 PM
  #311
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Top 2 d-man != #1 d-man. I don't see Gormley as a #1, a good #2 at best.

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06-06-2013, 07:53 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Here's something that has been discussed a lot on the trade/rumor board and I wanted to see what the rest of you thought.

Gormley + 2nd for Couturier.

Now I'm not a fan of trading Coots and I personally reject 99% of the trade proposals for him but this one intrigues me. I think it's fair for both teams.

While I'd like a guy more proven than Gormley it's just not realistic that we can find one. Gormley definitely has the potential to be a top pairing PMD with good offensive ability and if Schenn continues to progress they could give us a legit top pairing for our blueline to be built around. Gormley could very well be the long term replacement for Timonen that we've been looking for. While we'd still need to find someone to fill that role for the 3 or so years while Gormley is developed he is probably the most realistic option in a trade. He's progressed well since his draft and is ready to make the jump to the pros next year most likely in the AHL.

We'd still have our 1st this year and with it we wouldn't have to focus mainly on defense, we could draft a top end forward talent to replace Coots if we needed and felt one was available. We could also look to add even more defensive depth if we go dman.
Id rather not trade Couts and explore one of the Carolina/Edm options...trade coburn and our 2nd for one of their firsts, then draft Nurse and Morrissey and be set for the next 10 years.

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06-06-2013, 07:56 PM
  #313
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Id rather not trade Couts and explore one of the Carolina/Edm options...trade coburn and our 2nd for one of their firsts, then draft Nurse and Morrissey and be set for the next 10 years.
or Nichushkin/Barkov (at 5) + Morrissey/etc

Either way, I would be absolutely stunned if the best that Carolina/Edmonton could do was Coburn and a second. Coburn's value is probably a 18-25 pick... takes more than that kind of value + a close to the middle second to get to 5/7 overall imo.

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06-06-2013, 09:57 PM
  #314
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or Nichushkin/Barkov (at 5) + Morrissey/etc

Either way, I would be absolutely stunned if the best that Carolina/Edmonton could do was Coburn and a second. Coburn's value is probably a 18-25 pick... takes more than that kind of value + a close to the middle second to get to 5/7 overall imo.
I would pick either Morrisey or Pulock at #11 to start my defensive rebuild.
If at pick #18 the other player was still available, then I would try trading
Coburn for pick at that point to draft the other as well.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 06-06-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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06-07-2013, 06:03 AM
  #315
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Gormley has that potential. If a guy was a bonified triple threat dman then Couturier wouldn't come close to being enough to get him (and he wouldn't likely be available for anything short of Giroux).

Gormley has top two written all over him. He'd make our defensive prospects probably our strongest pool.
Despite the general consensus of HFBoards that prospects who have never played in the NHL are worth more than a young guy who actually has, that is just not the case in the real world. Phoenix adds quite a bit to a Gormley for Couturier trade. Center is just as premium of a position as defensemen.

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06-07-2013, 06:41 AM
  #316
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What about Couturier + Mez (+ 2nd?) for Gormley + Vermette (+ 1st?)

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06-07-2013, 07:17 AM
  #317
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Just trade Mezaros for whatever you can get. Keep Couturier.

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06-07-2013, 07:31 AM
  #318
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Just trade Mezaros for whatever you can get. Keep Couturier.
I agree

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06-07-2013, 09:45 AM
  #319
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Despite the general consensus of HFBoards that prospects who have never played in the NHL are worth more than a young guy who actually has, that is just not the case in the real world. Phoenix adds quite a bit to a Gormley for Couturier trade. Center is just as premium of a position as defensemen.
Not sold on the value of keeping Couturier over upgrading our defense.
I would prefer to trade Couturier for an young NHL #1 Defenseman or an
young NHL Defenseman with offensive skills.

For a young #1 Defenseman, I would expect to add additional players and picks, of course.

I would prefer to trade prospect for prospect.
For Gormley: Laughton, or Laughton+prospect --seems more reasonable.


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06-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #320
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Not sold on the value of keeping Couturier over upgrading our defense.
I would prefer to trade Couturier for an young NHL #1 Defenseman or an
young NHL Defenseman with offensive skills.

For a young #1 Defenseman, I would expect to add additional players and picks, of course.

I would prefer to trade prospect for prospect.
For Gormley: Laughton, or Laughton+prospect --seems more reasonable.
If you want to improve the defense, why are you trying to make the defensive skill of the forward corps much worse? Keep Couturier, I say.

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06-07-2013, 10:01 AM
  #321
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If that is actually a fact not an opinion, we should have our pick of defensive prospects for Couturier.
Certainly there are AHL prospects projected to become #1 defenseman available for him.

All we need is someone with the guts to pull the trigger on a trade for the player
they determine is best prospect.
Have the guts?? We have the gm with the biggest balls of any in the NHL. You know why he doesn't pull the trigger, because it makes no sense to do it. You rarely see teams trade potential for potential. Generally you see established for potential++. Couts for a prospect defenseman would be the dumbest asset management. Defenseman take longer to develop and also have a much higher bust rate. Why trade our best defensive forward who still has an high offensive ceiling for someone who will more than likely bust even if our FO likes him.

Look everyone understands the flyers need defenseman in their prospect pool. It's no secret, but when you start reaching for players because of a need, you make bad picks. Then when those players don't develop like everyone wants them to, people get mad we took him there. You need to go best player to ensure the best chance the player has to succeed.

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06-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #322
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Have the guts?? We have the gm with the biggest balls of any in the NHL. You know why he doesn't pull the trigger, because it makes no sense to do it. You rarely see teams trade potential for potential. Generally you see established for potential++. Couts for a prospect defenseman would be the dumbest asset management. Defenseman take longer to develop and also have a much higher bust rate. Why trade our best defensive forward who still has an high offensive ceiling for someone who will more than likely bust even if our FO likes him.

Look everyone understands the flyers need defenseman in their prospect pool. It's no secret, but when you start reaching for players because of a need, you make bad picks. Then when those players don't develop like everyone wants them to, people get mad we took him there. You need to go best player to ensure the best chance the player has to succeed.
I watch Bergeron and I can see Couts being every bit as good as he is, maybe better, over his career. Why trade him unless it's for a guaranteed, established player?

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06-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #323
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Then how did this system manage to drag MFL to game 6 of the Finals?

The system can work if it has players who know how to play defense. Right now there aren't many players who are strong defensively. Even when they tried the whole "defensive shell" thing for a few games after the 5 day break, it was clear the forwards just weren't meant for it and Bryz still allowed weak goals.
As I said before. They stopped playing their bottom pairing. They had a HOF defender playing at an elite level. My goodness, I just looked it up, Pronger played 29:03 minutes in the 09/10 playoffs. They also had a still effective Kimmo logging massive ice time (26:38). So at virtually all times they either had Pronger or Timonen on the ice. So yeah, if the Flyers can somehow find another Pronger and add an effective Timonen replacement to go with Schenn and Coburn and just ride those 4 guys ignoring a 3rd pairing then yeah, Lavy's system is golden.

Quote:
Bryz is just bad. Drop him onto the Rangers and he'd still be bad. Drop him into the Kings and he'd still be bad.
Yet you throw him on the Coyotes and he's a Vezina candidate.

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06-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #324
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As I said before. They stopped playing their bottom pairing. They had a HOF defender playing at an elite level. My goodness, I just looked it up, Pronger played 29:03 minutes in the 09/10 playoffs. They also had a still effective Kimmo logging massive ice time (26:38). So at virtually all times they either had Pronger or Timonen on the ice. So yeah, if the Flyers can somehow find another Pronger and add an effective Timonen replacement to go with Schenn and Coburn and just ride those 4 guys ignoring a 3rd pairing then yeah, Lavy's system is golden.



Yet you throw him on the Coyotes and he's a Vezina candidate.
Before he got his huge payday. That has, in the past, had a tendency to affect a player's drive in all sports.

How do you explain how the team STILL managed to play competent defense after losing Lappy, Betts, and Pronger to injury in 2010-2011? How did a rookie goalie manage to thrive in this oh-so-flawed system that no goalie can thrive in during that time?


Edit: What part of Lavi's system makes it impossible for Bryz to make himself square to shots, have good positioning, make an attempt to see through screens, or stop unscreened blue line shots?

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06-07-2013, 11:51 AM
  #325
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I watch Bergeron and I can see Couts being every bit as good as he is, maybe better, over his career. Why trade him unless it's for a guaranteed, established player?
Sounds familiar......well we all know that Couturier should have played like Mats Sundin ...

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