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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

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06-07-2013, 09:10 AM
  #51
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Where does the Ruutu stuff come from? Carolina is a budget team. They would be paying good dollars for a player not to play for them. They aren't spending up to the upper limit. They had to retain money to clear most of Jokinen's salary because they gave Semin $7M. How has Jokinen worked out for Pitt? Not so good.

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06-07-2013, 09:12 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
why does everybody like Jamie McBain so much? From what I've seen of him this year he was horrible...
Kid has great offensive instincts, size, and mobility, but needs to work on his positioning and gap control. He has a good shot from the point and can log 20 minutes a night on the second pairing. I think what he needs most is a steady partner that he can grow with. Carolina can't get their defense straight. Not a great environment, IMO.

Personally, I feel like he could rebound with a new team. Similar to the way Stralman turned his game around after being cut from a tryout by the Devils. If you buy low on these kids, sometimes you are rewarded with great results. We may be seeing that with Brassard and Moore, and we could see the same with McBain.

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06-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Where does the Ruutu stuff come from? Carolina is a budget team. They would be paying good dollars for a player not to play for them. They aren't spending up to the upper limit. They had to retain money to clear most of Jokinen's salary because they gave Semin $7M. How has Jokinen worked out for Pitt? Not so good.
I don't think Carolina has a choice really. They need more defensemen and depth scoring and Ruutu's play has become expendable. He has a really bad contract that Rutherford should love to get out of, and nobody in their right mind would take Ruutu at his salary. And what does Jokinen have to do with anything?

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06-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
If a d-man is moved without one coming back, maybe. I don't think it would take Pyatt to get McBain though.



Not sure they would need Nystrom if they bring in McLeod, which would be nice. Move Pyatt and his salary and no need to bring in a UFA.
Nystrom and McLeod plays different styles... McLeod is more of a tough guy that play 4th line and take faceoffs if needed... Nystrom has more speed, makes big hits and pk well. id take both and trade Powe. he is useless besides he is fast... a more expensive less skilled freddie sjostrom... Powe stinks

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06-07-2013, 09:15 AM
  #55
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Ruutu possibly being bought out by Carolina is very interesting. Injury prone, but I would take him on a one year "show me" deal.
Ruutu would be a nice addition next to Brassard. He adds some grit, while being skilled.

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06-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #56
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personally I'd take Nystrom and McLeod. Makes the bottom 6 much harder to play against, especially Nystrom. Great skater and PK's great.

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06-07-2013, 09:19 AM
  #57
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Valid questions. I don't think that's how the team looks come the season opener, it's just a scenario I threw out and I agree with your questions, they're the right things to be asking.

I still think DZ goes at the draft for a top-6 winger, so that bumps Kreider. However, I do think in a new system Kreider will absolutely excel. Torts was trying to make him Hagelin. Kreider is not Hagelin. Their only similarity is their speed, that's it.

Lindberg has been playing in a men's league since 09-10. If he comes to NA, which it is believed he will AFAIK, I think he will absolutely impress. His faceoff skill and two-way play alone might get him a shot to open the season on the Rangers third line. Of course this is a very optimistic view though.

I do think though that you would be hardpressed to find any team out there without a single concern.
I continue to think that the scapegoating and vitriol thrown at Torts masked some of the very real personnel issues this team has - both when it comes to top-end talent and depth.

The roster you'd be happy with next year does not look like a championship team to me. In order to think it is, it requires some huge leaps of faith that players will grow under a new system. Something tells me, at the end of next season, I'll still be complaining about the roster construction - like I have since the Renney days - and others will be chastising the new coach...again. We shall see.

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06-07-2013, 09:20 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Kid has great offensive instincts, size, and mobility, but needs to work on his positioning and gap control. He has a good shot from the point and can log 20 minutes a night on the second pairing. I think what he needs most is a steady partner that he can grow with. Carolina can't get their defense straight. Not a great environment, IMO.

Personally, I feel like he could rebound with a new team. Similar to the way Stralman turned his game around after being cut from a tryout by the Devils. If you buy low on these kids, sometimes you are rewarded with great results. We may be seeing that with Brassard and Moore, and we could see the same with McBain.
I like McBain, I just don't see the point IF they don't move a d-man. No where to play and having him sit does nothing for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Nystrom and McLeod plays different styles... McLeod is more of a tough guy that play 4th line and take faceoffs if needed... Nystrom has more speed, makes big hits and pk well. id take both and trade Powe. he is useless besides he is fast... a more expensive less skilled freddie sjostrom... Powe stinks
I agree. Unfortunately, they are a bit redundant as McLeod and Nystrom both are C/LW's.

If they keep Boyle, where do they play? If they move Boyle, I'm good with both if possible. I like them both.

I offered McLeod + 6th for Powe/Pyatt + Bourque

They seem a bit split on who they would want. Either one gone is okay with me for McLeod and it clears a contract spot for a couple of years at least.

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06-07-2013, 09:22 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Oh I definitely agree. In terms of performance scaled to salary, Byuf would be pretty worthless, just like Kotalik.

I just don't think we have anyone on this team that can pump a shot from beyond the circles, and its a real problem on the PP.
Moore can, but it's about giving him the opportunity to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
If a d-man is moved without one coming back, maybe. I don't think it would take Pyatt to get McBain though.
The salary and term works, and I think McBain is more useful than McLeod.

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06-07-2013, 09:23 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I continue to think that the scapegoating and vitriol thrown at Torts masked some of the very real personnel issues this team has - both when it comes to top-end talent and depth.

The roster you'd be happy with next year does not look like a championship team to me. In order to think it is, it requires some huge leaps of faith that players will grow under a new system. Something tells me, at the end of next season, I'll still be complaining about the roster construction - like I have since the Renney days - and others will be chastising the new coach. We shall see.
I get where you are coming from. I think you have to look at each position individually.

Nystrom is a very good 4th line player who can PK. Boyle is a good 4th liner who can PK and win face-offs.

The top-6 looks weak because it is. There isn't much they can do about that this off-season barring a major trade (which I don't condone after the trades both this season and last off-season).

What do you think of McLeod + Nystrom being added?

What about someone like Raymond?

On paper, pretty much any team they put together is not going to be "sexy", but whatever works.

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06-07-2013, 09:25 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I like McBain, I just don't see the point IF they don't move a d-man. No where to play and having him sit does nothing for him.
I think Del Zotto will be moved.

McD - Girardi
Staal - McBain/Straman
Moore - Stralman/McBain
Eminger

Size, mobility, and they can all move the puck in transition.

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06-07-2013, 09:25 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The salary and term works, and I think McBain is more useful than McLeod.
If they move Staal or MDZ, than get McBain if he is cheap. If not, I am not going to move significant assets for a guy who couldn't crack Carolina's roster on defense.

It's about building an identity like they had a couple of years ago. Hard to play against and will stand up for themselves and eachother.

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06-07-2013, 09:26 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think Del Zotto will be moved.

McD - Girardi
Staal - McBain/Straman
Moore - Stralman/McBain
Eminger

Size, mobility, and they can all move the puck in transition.
Looks good to me.

How about this:

Powe + Bourque for McLeod

Pyatt for McBain

Perfect world?

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06-07-2013, 09:28 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I get where you are coming from. I think you have to look at each position individually.

Nystrom is a very good 4th line player who can PK. Boyle is a good 4th liner who can PK and win face-offs.

The top-6 looks weak because it is. There isn't much they can do about that this off-season barring a major trade (which I don't condone after the trades both this season and last off-season).

What do you think of McLeod + Nystrom being added?

What about someone like Raymond?

On paper, pretty much any team they put together is not going to be "sexy", but whatever works.
The bottom 6 moves would be fine to explore. Overall, I want guys that know and accept their role on the 3rd/4th lines. I want guys that actually enjoy going out there and creating havoc.

I still think its pretty absurd that we cannot cultivate these type of guys from within.

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06-07-2013, 09:31 AM
  #65
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The bottom 6 moves would be fine to explore. Overall, I want guys that know and accept their role on the 3rd/4th lines. I want guys that actually enjoy going out there and creating havoc.
Agreed. They have to be able to skate and bring something else to the party. I believe that is something this team missed last season, on top of some scoring. Where was the identity of making life difficult on the opponents defense?

Need to get that back. Powe and Pyatt and Asham just did not bring that at all.

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06-07-2013, 09:37 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Agreed. They have to be able to skate and bring something else to the party. I believe that is something this team missed last season, on top of some scoring. Where was the identity of making life difficult on the opponents defense?

Need to get that back. Powe and Pyatt and Asham just did not bring that at all.
This is exactly what guys like Nystrom, McLeod, Asham (when healthy), and Haley can bring every night. Pick two of the four, and have them flank Boyle on the fourth line.

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06-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
If they move Staal or MDZ, than get McBain if he is cheap. If not, I am not going to move significant assets for a guy who couldn't crack Carolina's roster on defense.

It's about building an identity like they had a couple of years ago. Hard to play against and will stand up for themselves and eachother.
Stralman couldn't crack the Devils lineup out of camp. Sometimes players just need to find a place they're comfortable. I'm not giving up the farm for him. Pyatt is a depth forward who we're trading for a defender with upside.

I don't think we have the personnel to rebuild that 11-12 identity. I'd like to build the team more like Boston. Responsible defensively, but lethal in transition. The reason that old identity worked is because you had guys in your top-9 who had sandpaper. McLeod is going to get 8 or 9 minutes a game. It doesn't help as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Looks good to me.

How about this:

Powe + Bourque for McLeod

Pyatt for McBain

Perfect world?
Just not a fan of McLeod. He's scrappy but he doesn't do much else. Honestly, I think I'd rather have Powe.

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06-07-2013, 09:38 AM
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So they asked for Jean instead of Bourque....

Jean + Powe for McLeoad + 5th '13

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06-07-2013, 09:39 AM
  #69
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So they asked for Jean instead of Bourque....

Jean + Powe for McLeoad + 5th '13
I'd rather see what we have in Jean.

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06-07-2013, 09:39 AM
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Stralman couldn't crack the Devils lineup out of camp. Sometimes players just need to find a place they're comfortable. I'm not giving up the farm for him. Pyatt is a depth forward who we're trading for a defender with upside.

I don't think we have the personnel to rebuild that 11-12 identity. I'd like to build the team more like Boston. Responsible defensively, but lethal in transition. The reason that old identity worked is because you had guys in your top-9 who had sandpaper. McLeod is going to get 8 or 9 minutes a game. It doesn't help as much.



Just not a fan of McLeod. He's scrappy but he doesn't do much else. Honestly, I think I'd rather have Powe.
McLeod had 8 goals in this shortened season. He is goof for ~10 goals a year. Powe adds no offense and intimidates no one.

I like McBain, if they can move Pyatt for him while adding McLeod I think it's a no brainer.

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06-07-2013, 09:43 AM
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I'd rather see what we have in Jean.
Ew.

I am trying to think outside the box here to add some grittiness and toughness without moving anything significant. McLeod is a 28 year old who can and will drop the gloves with most people and he PK's as a 4th line LW/C?

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06-07-2013, 09:47 AM
  #72
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All this spec is for nothing if they name Messier coach anyway. He'll trade Callahan for the '94 squad

Lucky none of them are active anymore!

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06-07-2013, 09:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
McLeod had 8 goals in this shortened season. He is goof for ~10 goals a year. Powe adds no offense and intimidates no one.

I like McBain, if they can move Pyatt for him while adding McLeod I think it's a no brainer.
He's scored more than 8 goals once in the NHL. Powe has demonstrated just as much offensive ability as McLeod has over his career. He's also an extremely effective penalty killer with great wheels and good forechecking ability. Saying Powe adds no offense because of one season isn't any more accurate than saying McLeod is good for ~10 goals per year because he had 8 in a shortened season.

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06-07-2013, 09:50 AM
  #74
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I don't think Carolina has a choice really. They need more defensemen and depth scoring and Ruutu's play has become expendable. He has a really bad contract that Rutherford should love to get out of, and nobody in their right mind would take Ruutu at his salary. And what does Jokinen have to do with anything?
Rutherford gave Ruutu $19M 16 months ago. His play? He was hurt for most of the season. Hip surgery. Ruutu always has something with him. Same player. Budget team Carolina will pay Ruutu coming off hip surgery $10M and send him good bye? Carolina knew what they were getting with Ruutu. You're either new here or you're the one who was pushing Jokinen as a replacement for Stepan early in the season. People change their user names all the time. Even when Jokinen was placed on waivers at the deadline,there was no shortage of the Rangers should claim Jokinen posts here. He stinks and Pitt is stuck with $2.1M on their cap next season. Jokinen is another Rutherford guy.

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06-07-2013, 09:50 AM
  #75
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He's scored more than 8 goals once in the NHL. Powe has demonstrated just as much offensive ability as McLeod has over his career. He's also an extremely effective penalty killer with great wheels and good forechecking ability. Saying Powe adds no offense because of one season isn't any more accurate than saying McLeod is good for ~10 goals per year because he had 8 in a shortened season.
McLeod had 15, 7, 5, 6, 8 (in 48)

Over the past 5 seasons, that's 41 goals over 347 games = ~.11 * 82 games = ~9.67 goals/82 games.

It's pretty close.

McLeod also PK's and fights. Multi-dimensional.

Powe is the new Betts.

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