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Official GDT: Panthers v Maple Leafs 10/09/06

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Old
10-09-2006, 09:54 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
that is coaching pb6.
no it isn't - you cant blame a coach for mental mistakes. they instill the systems but they dont play the games.

last year, 5 on 5, we were excellent. this year we cant even get out of our zone. did martin suddenly change his system?

maybe its just a lack of chemistry due to alot of new faces - but i don't like how many battles we are losing in the corners and to loose pucks. that is all hard work and i don't see it from our guys. toronto and atlanta skated away with the puck the last two games 90% of the time.

it's tough to score if you're chasing after the puck 90% of the time. terrible team performance tonight. the players (other than auld) failed, not the coaches.

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10-09-2006, 09:56 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
one of the other comments on the TSN broadcast tonight which really hit home - jacques' style is NOT the style you want to play... well, anywhere, i suppose, but the point these guys were trying to make was that it is no fun to watch. not something that's going to go over well in a glitzy market like sofla.
tsn isn't exactly objective when talking about martin...

and like i've said before, his style worked last year and every year prior to it...how is it suddenly any different? it may not be exciting like the canes of last year, but i couldn't care less as long as we win games.

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10-09-2006, 10:06 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by PantherBlood6 View Post
i dont find martin to be the problem at all - i dont understand anyone that does, either.

we went 36-23-7 last year after november...something like 15-6-4 after the olympic break - and last years team was not nearly as impressive on paper as this one. decent forwards, terrible defense, inconsistent goaltending.

so what gives? how can it be the coach now but not last year?

everyone blames the coach when things go bad - it's the easy thing to do, but it's tough to sustain any type of attack (regardless of the system) when your passes are going 1/2 mph into your guys skates/on to the oppositions stick. there's no teamwork, no cohesion. the puck goes into the corner and instead of one guy skating to get it and the other guy skating to position for a pass, they both chase the puck and lose it.

potvin said it in the telecast. they aren't playing as a team. they skate into the zone 1 v. 5 and try to take on the entire maple leafs team. i saw a point in the game where stumpel skated the puck into the leafs zone along the boards and bertuzzi just stayed at the blueline waiting for the leafs to clear the puck - *** is that?

they aren't playing nhl hockey, they look like an all star team without the all-star talent. team canada in torino for example. ugly, and frustrating to watch, ESPECIALLY considering the "only" weakness we had was out goaltending and auld puts up a performance like that....

Quoted for truth


How people are quick to forget the improvements made last year by this team with Martin at the helm. We lose TWO games and suddenly, he's got to go. . It isn't JM's system that allows the opposition to take 40+ shots. How many times did that happen during his 10 yrs in Ottawa? The players are not getting it done. They are playing lackadaisical hockey, leaving the goalie out to dry again. This goes back years before Martin took the helm. Things started to change last year in the second half with the team playing as a cohesive unit and being the team that did most of the pressuring. It is a mather of the players understanding that if they want to win, they have to do all the little things and play as a team.

Don't jump off the ship just yet people.


On a side note, I have to admit that Auld is proving me wrong with a performance like this. From everything I had seen from him and heard, I didn't think he had it in him to keep his team in a game like this. Good job Auld! It doesn't look like you'll be the one holding us back if you continue to play like this.

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10-09-2006, 10:10 PM
  #179
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One thing I can say is that when I watch another game on Center Ice and then I switch to the Panthers, it just looks like our game is either A. slower, or B., we just aren't working as hard as we should be, or C., something else.

The second one could be a coaching issue because maybe with Martin's system, he doesn't want players to go all out on the offensive attack. That could be a problem because most other teams I watch do.

Either way, we have tons of talent. Something isn't working though, and we need to find out what it is soon. We can't wait until the second half of the season like we did last year -- that didn't get us to the playoffs.

If it's not Martin's system and it's the lack of effort from the players, then maybe Martin needs to step it up and make sure he gets it through his players' heads what they need to do to win a hockey game.

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10-09-2006, 10:12 PM
  #180
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Aside from 'the Wall' (aka Auld), the entire team was dismal.

Hopefully we can get on the Carolina beat-down-bandwagon on Wednesday and gain some confidence.

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10-09-2006, 10:14 PM
  #181
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This game had more bad than good characteristics to it. The good...Alex Auld was freaking AMAZING with 47 saves. The bad...Our defense let up 47 shots. They cannot continue this trend with the opposing team shooting over 35 shots per game. I thought with this supposed to be much improved defense that the limit would go down about 5-10 shots per game. I don't like giving away a win to a lower league team like the Leafs, but at least we got a point out of it. They have to play a much better game against the Hurricanes on Wednesday, even if they've gone winless so far in this short season.

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10-09-2006, 10:16 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHotChiliPanthers View Post
Quoted for truth


How people are quick to forget the improvements made last year by this team with Martin at the helm. We lose TWO games and suddenly, he's got to go. . It isn't JM's system that allows the opposition to take 40+ shots. How many times did that happen during his 10 yrs in Ottawa? The players are not getting it done. They are playing lackadaisical hockey, leaving the goalie out to dry again. This goes back years before Martin took the helm. Things started to change last year in the second half with the team playing as a cohesive unit and being the team that did most of the pressuring. It is a mather of the players understanding that if they want to win, they have to do all the little things and play as a team.

Don't jump off the ship just yet people.


On a side note, I have to admit that Auld is proving me wrong with a performance like this. From everything I had seen from him and heard, I didn't think he had it in him to keep his team in a game like this. Good job Auld! It doesn't look like you'll be the one holding us back if you continue to play like this.
another thing i was thinking to myself is that this team is playing uptight. they try to clear a puck but it seems as if theyre holding their sticks too tight and instead of lifting the puck, they get under it and completely miss it instead.

maybe all that talk created pressure and the young guys are feeling it - but if they cant handle it now how do they ever expect to be successful when/if they actually get there??

and on auld...i saw him last year alot and he wasn't this good, so i'm still going to hold off judgement. he was unbelievable tonight, but it was only 1/82, so i'm not going to announce him the next Roy just yet....he sure is playing well though. if he somehow manages to keep this up, the trade will look like a steal regardless of what bertuzzi and allen do, considering we are paying auld 1.4 mil and a certain someone is getting $7mil....

its too early for that kind of talk, though, it's only been three games....

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10-09-2006, 10:48 PM
  #183
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no it isn't - you cant blame a coach for mental mistakes. they instill the systems but they dont play the games.
um, excuse me but yes it is. when you have guys holding back, sitting at the blue line, that is coaching. i don't know what play exactly you are talking about but this is *exactly* what the broadcasters - who, mind you have been watching martin coached teams for more than 10 years - are talking about.

granted, the team is not playing martin's system well at this point but that is not what these guys are crying about. they're looking at the big picture (in their mind) - his style is boring and although he amassed many wins in ottawa during the regular season, in the end, it really hasn't been shown to be effective in the post season.

those are just the facts at this point.

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10-09-2006, 10:50 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHotChiliPanthers View Post
Quoted for truth


How people are quick to forget the improvements made last year by this team with Martin at the helm. We lose TWO games and suddenly, he's got to go. . It isn't JM's system that allows the opposition to take 40+ shots. How many times did that happen during his 10 yrs in Ottawa? The players are not getting it done. They are playing lackadaisical hockey, leaving the goalie out to dry again. This goes back years before Martin took the helm. Things started to change last year in the second half with the team playing as a cohesive unit and being the team that did most of the pressuring. It is a mather of the players understanding that if they want to win, they have to do all the little things and play as a team.

Don't jump off the ship just yet people.


On a side note, I have to admit that Auld is proving me wrong with a performance like this. From everything I had seen from him and heard, I didn't think he had it in him to keep his team in a game like this. Good job Auld! It doesn't look like you'll be the one holding us back if you continue to play like this.
I have to say I agree with you here as well. Nearly everyone here was so quick to cheer when Keenan left and praise Martin. God Florida fans are so finicky. We lose 2 games and all of a sudden, it's time to get rid of the coach?

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10-09-2006, 10:51 PM
  #185
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Auld!

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Old
10-09-2006, 10:52 PM
  #186
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Why do you guys play defensive hockey if you have no defense?



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10-09-2006, 10:58 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
um, excuse me but yes it is. when you have guys holding back, sitting at the blue line, that is coaching. i don't know what play exactly you are talking about but this is *exactly* what the broadcasters - who, mind you have been watching martin coached teams for more than 10 years - are talking about..
um, excuse me, but its not.

im pretty sure martin is not instructing his players to go into the zone, 1 v. 5 and have everyone sit back and watch as they fail.

his system may be conservative, but it's not idiotic. that isn't coaching, it's players not excecuting. players not playing together. instead of crossing the blueline into the leafs zone as a cohesive unit (as they are supposed to, and as we saw countless times last year) - one goes in, tries to take on the whole team and the others sit back.

sorry, that isn't coaching. no coach is going to instruct their players to do that in a tie game. it's five guys being on different pages. one thinks hes going to do one thing and then he does another.

Quote:
granted, the team is not playing martin's system well at this point but that is not what these guys are crying about. they're looking at the big picture (in their mind) - his style is boring and although he amassed many wins in ottawa during the regular season, in the end, it really hasn't been shown to be effective in the post season.

those are just the facts at this point
.

we can sit here and argue about martin's (lack of) playoff success all day, but at this point, we just need to get into the playoffs, even if its a first round exit, we need to get in and martin has proven himself to be more than capable of accomplishing that.

can we have success after that with martin at the helm? i think we can, as in my opinion, it's unfair to judge martin considering who he was throwing out there every year in goal.

i couldn't give a damn if his system is boring....as long as we win....and i didn't find last season to be boring...at all. actually, it was probably the most exciting season i've seen the panthers play. alot of close games and alot of scoring chances (alot of it due to our terrible personnel on defense).

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10-09-2006, 11:00 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by WelcomeToPominville View Post
Why do you guys play defensive hockey if you have no defense?


Bouwmeester=#1 defensman
Van Ryn=#2/3 defensman
Salei=#3/#4 defensman
Allen=#4 defensman
Mezei=#4 defensman


excuse me? we have the ability on the backline...we have yet to see any production from them, though.

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10-09-2006, 11:03 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
um, excuse me but yes it is. when you have guys holding back, sitting at the blue line, that is coaching. i don't know what play exactly you are talking about but this is *exactly* what the broadcasters - who, mind you have been watching martin coached teams for more than 10 years - are talking about.

granted, the team is not playing martin's system well at this point but that is not what these guys are crying about. they're looking at the big picture (in their mind) - his style is boring and although he amassed many wins in ottawa during the regular season, in the end, it really hasn't been shown to be effective in the post season.

those are just the facts at this point.
You had the other Ontario team (the Leafs) playing full tilt offense with little or no defensive system under Quinn and they had little play-off success. If you are going to go anywhere in the post-season you have to have disciplined offensive and defensive systems AND a goalie who plays to an elite level for an extended run.

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10-09-2006, 11:18 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
You had the other Ontario team (the Leafs) playing full tilt offense with little or no defensive system under Quinn and they had little play-off success. If you are going to go anywhere in the post-season you have to have disciplined offensive and defensive systems AND a goalie who plays to an elite level for an extended run.
not disagreeing. just stating the facts wrt to martin. i don't hate the guy but then again, he's only been here 1 year and 3 games. i'm a little disappointed in the approach the last two games and i don't think i'm alone.

and pb6, come on. first of all, it was not 1 vs 5, it was 1 vs 2 or 3 and that's basically 1 forechecker, i.e., a very conservative offensive game. it's not unusual at all, especially if you're protecting a lead.

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10-09-2006, 11:36 PM
  #191
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and pb6, come on. first of all, it was not 1 vs 5, it was 1 vs 2 or 3 and that's basically 1 forechecker, i.e., a very conservative offensive game. it's not unusual at all, especially if you're protecting a lead.

the specific play i was talking about, there was at least 4 leafs in their zone when stumpel tried to go in alone....with bertuzzi just sitting behind and watching (likely thinking he would dump it in). they werent on the same page.

say what you want about martin, but i didn't find this team to be conservative at all last year when they found success. maybe his system takes a while to take in and the newbies are slow to adapt, but i don't see why he'd suddenly change into something else.

the players just aren't executing right now. they are playing like garbage. we could have scotty bowman behind the bench and it wouldn't make a difference if we keep passing/skating/defending the way we have been the last two games.

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10-09-2006, 11:42 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by PantherBlood6 View Post
Bouwmeester=#1 defensman
Van Ryn=#2/3 defensman
Salei=#3/#4 defensman
Allen=#4 defensman
Mezei=#4 defensman


excuse me? we have the ability on the backline...we have yet to see any production from them, though.
Okay, i admit that looks pretty darn solid.

But, where are they?

I felt SO sorry for Aulder today.

There was a time when we had 4 of our 6 top dmen injured last season in Vancouver, and they STILL looked better.

Hopefully they just need some getting used to, because right now i feel so sorry for Alex.

Alex was pretty darn great for you guys though, i mean psshht.. i wish the Canucks never even made this stupid trade. You can have Luongo, just give us Todd and Alex.

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10-09-2006, 11:49 PM
  #193
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Two of our top 4 d-men are still learning the system. Just give it time. Martin was good last year, and excellent in Ottawa, I don't think he is or will be a problem.

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10-09-2006, 11:54 PM
  #194
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Okay, i admit that looks pretty darn solid.

But, where are they?

I felt SO sorry for Aulder today.

There was a time when we had 4 of our 6 top dmen injured last season in Vancouver, and they STILL looked better.

Hopefully they just need some getting used to, because right now i feel so sorry for Alex.

Alex was pretty darn great for you guys though, i mean psshht.. i wish the Canucks never even made this stupid trade. You can have Luongo, just give us Todd and Alex.
thats the million dollar question for all of us...on paper this team looks like a borderline elite team if auld continues his play...but on the ice they look terrible.

you can keep reboundo...it's been nice not having to watch either goalie kick rebounds out into the slot on routine saves....auld sucks them up and belfour lets them in the net, instead

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10-09-2006, 11:59 PM
  #195
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i dont find martin to be the problem at all - i dont understand anyone that does, either.

we went 36-23-7 last year after november...something like 15-6-4 after the olympic break - and last years team was not nearly as impressive on paper as this one. decent forwards, terrible defense, inconsistent goaltending.

so what gives? how can it be the coach now but not last year?

everyone blames the coach when things go bad - it's the easy thing to do, but it's tough to sustain any type of attack (regardless of the system) when your passes are going 1/2 mph into your guys skates/on to the oppositions stick. there's no teamwork, no cohesion. the puck goes into the corner and instead of one guy skating to get it and the other guy skating to position for a pass, they both chase the puck and lose it.

potvin said it in the telecast. they aren't playing as a team. they skate into the zone 1 v. 5 and try to take on the entire maple leafs team. i saw a point in the game where stumpel skated the puck into the leafs zone along the boards and bertuzzi just stayed at the blueline waiting for the leafs to clear the puck - *** is that?

they aren't playing nhl hockey, they look like an all star team without the all-star talent. team canada in torino for example. ugly, and frustrating to watch, ESPECIALLY considering the "only" weakness we had was out goaltending and auld puts up a performance like that....

Martin's systems will win us hockey games no doubt when they're executed perfectly but when they're not executed and guys are being beat to the puck, it's easy to see where things go wrong. My problem is Martin needs to push more IMO for the offense. When we lost last year we were playing too conservatively instead of going for some offense. Dumping it isn't the answer and it looks as if Martin's ALMOST playing the trap, not exactly but several shifts, since 2 of our 3 guys would hardly skate, it looked an awful lot like it and that will NOT work. Even the most successful defensive team (the Devils) retooled and changed their philosophy going more to offense than defense. I have no problem with playing a solid two way game but I don't believe it to be that "defense wins championships" with the new NHL. I can see how defense can, but in order to make the playoffs you have to play an offensive game.

Really, it's as if we're playing games now as if we're trying to just get lucky instead of creating plays. The passings terrible, I saw some 2 on 1's where guys just stopped skating or open space to skate to the net where Gratton I remember just stood there instead of trying to cut to the net. Expect a dropoff from Olli IMO as it's going to be hard for him to produce IMO if he's not the sole go to guy.

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10-10-2006, 07:04 AM
  #196
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Uh, It's Game 3...
It was the 3rd game in 4 nights...
It's the start of the season...

We have 3 Points in 3 games...

Right now we're tied for 5th in the east... We're 2nd in our division...

It's not the end of the world yet... Give them a chance to get their feet under them...

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10-10-2006, 07:07 AM
  #197
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well, martin won a lot of regular season games in ottawa and fans love to win but the canadiens are not enamored of his style. also, they clearly tired of the pattern - finish in the top three at the end of the regular season only to get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. i'm not jumping off the bandwagon just yet but this team looks pretty awful right now.

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10-10-2006, 07:51 AM
  #198
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well, martin won a lot of regular season games in ottawa and fans love to win but the canadiens are not enamored of his style. also, they clearly tired of the pattern - finish in the top three at the end of the regular season only to get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. i'm not jumping off the bandwagon just yet but this team looks pretty awful right now.
We're clearly not watching the same team. In two games I've watched, the Panthers were a team that put a lot of offensive zone pressure against opponents, three men deep cycling the puck and defense occasionally pinching, then used speed to get back to play defense if the puck escaped the zone - the Panthers are playing a puck possession strategy this year, and actually succeeding - they have the puck more often than not, and are excelling at takeaways. Defensemen have been physical and have protected the net far more often than in past seasons. The only problems I've seen is Mezei needs more seasoning, the forward lines need more time to click, and Horton needs to get faster in his decision making when he has the puck. Even Campbell, who's got the least talent in the lineup, plays his heart out and doesn't look out of place on the ice. In fact, he, Kolnik, and Weiss had a bit of chemistry when lined up in the 3rd period. But by the end, the loss of two forwards clearly took a toll and Florida was the more tired of the two teams.

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10-10-2006, 08:39 AM
  #199
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As much as I hate Keenan, I'd rather have him than Martin. This team started turning it around last season due to Nieuwy, Roberts, and Hill leading this team, while all healthy, more than anything else. Martin is overhyped, and the typical Florida fan loves the hype..

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10-10-2006, 09:01 AM
  #200
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We could just be adjusting to the new players still. Who knows?

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