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Old
10-09-2006, 07:06 PM
  #1
Radek27
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NHL Bashing Article

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6...T=HCP&GT1=8705





Was it wrong for wanting to beat down the author of this article?

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10-09-2006, 07:13 PM
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Ranger35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6...T=HCP&GT1=8705





Was it wrong for wanting to beat down the author of this article?

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10-09-2006, 07:27 PM
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You really can't argue with what he says! Those that follow hockey border on being fanatics unfortunately, there aren't that many hockey that follow hockey.

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10-09-2006, 07:33 PM
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The SkinneeJ
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My friend actually sent me this article earlier today. I don't really understand what the purpose of it was. Everything this guy said has already been said in other articles. At least he could have provided some suggestions to make things better.

My biggest problem with an article like this is that the casual sports fan will read this and continue treat the nhl as if it were a 3rd rate sport whithout ever tuning in. I feel like many of the casual sports fans that watch the NFL, NBA, MLB only do so because of the hype and people want to have a good story or a home team to root for. When you have mainstream sports writers/anchors telling you that you need to pay attention to an event, people are going to think that it's important and do so. Does the NHL have a PR dept?

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10-09-2006, 07:39 PM
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BigCanada77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6...T=HCP&GT1=8705





Was it wrong for wanting to beat down the author of this article?
You know, as much as that would be awesome, he speaks of an agonizing truth. The NHL is so severly less marketable to the US public than the NFL, NBA, and MLB. The rule changes helped.... a little. He could've done it without the "or was it indoor lacrosse?" statement, but hey, I guess that's his style. He makes good points with the bad timing of our beginning and ending of our season.

Personally I could care less if the NHL plays second fiddle on the National TV stage, as long as I can still watch it, screw everyone else.

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10-09-2006, 08:04 PM
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Radek27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCanada77 View Post
You know, as much as that would be awesome, he speaks of an agonizing truth. The NHL is so severly less marketable to the US public than the NFL, NBA, and MLB. The rule changes helped.... a little. He could've done it without the "or was it indoor lacrosse?" statement, but hey, I guess that's his style. He makes good points with the bad timing of our beginning and ending of our season.

Personally I could care less if the NHL plays second fiddle on the National TV stage, as long as I can still watch it, screw everyone else.
Hockey is the second most popular sport in the WORLD. Funny thing is the most popular one (Soccer) is also not big here either.

I also like how he fails to talk about the US markets where the NHL is very strong and has been (DET, SJ, DAL, COL, PHI, MIN, and even TB recently). This to me was just an article to bash the sport I love and for that I want to beat this guy!

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10-09-2006, 08:18 PM
  #7
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It is pretty stupid because he must have known that most of the people that would even read a hockey article are hockey fans, as the poll clearly showed.

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10-09-2006, 09:03 PM
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Some of the article is truthful and honest reporting, the other ignorant, cruel and adverse. The sport itself is a marketable one, but the problem doesn't lie in its marketability. They are doing just fine north of the border where major sports like lacrosse, football and baseball also exist, not to mention others.

Think about all the other major sports, anyone can play them. You can walk down to the nearest park and find a basketball court, you have 4 baseball fields in each town, you have nice open parks and football fields and tennis courts and golf courses. Yes, youll find a rink, but you have to be looking for one amongst the bowling alleys and pool halls, raquet ball clubs and gyms.

The normal "american" kid doesnt have the accesibility to strap on skates and head down to the pond, especially when its not frozen. Its been stated for years that generally speaking, minorities of america dont have the money to suit up their sons and daughters even if they wanted to play. Minority or not, if your kid needs 800 dollars in goalie equipment, a team fee of 600 and travel expenses for 15 to 20 games a season, in this penny pinching nation parents are much liklier to spend 20 bucks on a single ball, kick the kid in the butt and say "go outside and have fun"...

This leaves the sport from expanding into different regions of america and becoming what he says as "must-see t.v." The sport itslef is healthy as ever in my opinon, becoming succesful in areas no one thought possible 20 - even 10 years ago. There are kids in Texas going bonkers for the sport. There are huge events held each year at all levels in Las Vegas, not including the roller hockey world which has been a steady draw for kids over the last 10 years.

I'd like to believe that the hockey world is growing and become more popular in what the press calls "mainstream america" - but how fun would that be? Do you really want the press to over-analyze, criticize and scrutinize a Sidney Crosby like an Arod or a "T.O."?? I sure don't. And even if they tried they most likely couldnt because hockey players in general are the most gracious and media savvy athletes there are.

Thats why every big story you see on ESPN about hockey is negative. The american media has nothing to dig its teeth into and quite frankly (and no im not stephen A.) i dont want them to, im just happy with my "underground" sport - me and my hockey buddies' ticket to paradise each spring when they lift the most impressive trophy in all of sports.

They can keep their "major sports" in their conformed "must see t.v." land filled with over-endorsing, advertisment ridden and lame dramatics. If thats what the american wants to see then fine, but ill be sitting back and watching the greatest sport in the world, with the greatest action and most skilled athletes, with a beer in my hand and a smile on my face.


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Old
10-09-2006, 09:29 PM
  #9
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I think the fact that hockey isn't the easiest sport to just pick up and play as a little kid is part of the problem. I don't think the NHL will ever be the type of league that catches the attention of too many adults and converts them. That's why I don't think they can do anything to it on TV to make it more captivating for people than the lockout changes have already done. Sure, they'll try, because higher ratings means more exposure and more revenue, but I don't think it's happening. I think you have to get people when they are kids and have them grow up with a love of the sport.

But you need to be able to buy children equipment and give them a place to play, not to mention find enough kids to actually make teams and a league. And that costs a lot of money. Even if you were to start a child out just playing in the neighborhood with friends, you still need a stick and a ball.

Look at the minimum equiptment you need to play the major sports with a bunch of friends from around the block. This comes from my personal experience that I saw growing up in my neighborhood:

Baseball: a ball, a bat and a glove for each kid. If you're playing with something like a wiffle ball and bat you probably don't even need a glove to catch it. You don't even need to find a baseball field when you're a little kid because you can just use someones backyard or something.

Football: a football and any field, or even a good-sized yard at someone's house. No need for equipment if you're playing two-hand touch or even tackle if you're tough enough to take it.

Basketball: a basketball and a park with courts or a hooop in the street, on a driveway, whatever.

Hockey: a ball or a puck and a stick for each kid, plus a net and a goalie with equipment. If you don't have a net then you don't need a goalie and can shoot into something else (Tutor Shooter) but that's not as fun as a real life person in net. Then you need to find somewhere to play, whether it's someone's driveway, a cul-de-sac, a tennis court or an outdoor roller hockey rink.

And that's not even mentioning ice hockey. Then you need to find a frozen pond, which completely eliminates playing in a large portion of the US where it's not cold enough. And it eliminates another section of the country except when it's winter. And if you're on ice, that means everyone needs skates. Obviously same for roller hockey except you don't need the ice.

So if you're a parent, it's a lot easier to buy your kid a football where they can immediately go out and play than get them a stick, a puck, skates, gloves, and a net. I was at a party the other weekend and the kids were playing two sports--basketball and football. And they were playing the football in the middle of the street and one kid was barefoot! Yet they were still having the time of their lives. Two sports and only three pieces of equipment--a football, a basketball and a basketball net. Neighborhood children who were riding their bikes around the block saw the football game and immediately jumped in to play because all you need is your feet and hands. Not like hockey, where we all know the kid who's like, "Hey, anyone got an extra stick so I can play." No, sorry, bye.

So yes, hockey is very expensive when you want to play in an organized league. But these days it seems like it's too hard to just play a casual game as well.

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10-09-2006, 09:39 PM
  #10
HockeyBasedNYC
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hell yeah NYR94

Yep thats basically expanding on kids not having the accessibility to play the game. Thats what the writers always fail to mention when deciding to write this garbage... and for what do you write it for? You piss off hockey fans and IF a non-hockey fan stumbles upon the article they wont care either way anyhow.

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10-09-2006, 09:53 PM
  #11
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haha look at the poll on the bottom of the pages...it strongly supports hockey. Of course it will be biased due to the viewers of this article, but still, it's amusing.

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10-09-2006, 09:56 PM
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I personally feel that hockey is on an upswing (Mybe not neccessarily in our area though.) I am being optimistic because I saw a hockey city grow from nothing (Colorado), and I feel that other cities are going to be catching on (Carolina, Columbus, Atlanta, Nashville)... I can't go without a visit without seeing another 3 slab rink being built out there! Another fact is look at two cities that almost folded 2 years ago (Buffalo and Ottawa). At one point, they couldn't even pay their players salaries! Now they are selling out EVERY game and turning a profit... I think it hurts not having ESPN in our cards (Even though I highly dislike them), but we will get by... Thats my .02

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10-10-2006, 04:37 AM
  #13
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The SkinneeJ View Post
My biggest problem with an article like this is that the casual sports fan will read this and continue treat the nhl as if it were a 3rd rate sport whithout ever tuning in. I feel like many of the casual sports fans that watch the NFL, NBA, MLB only do so because of the hype and people want to have a good story or a home team to root for. When you have mainstream sports writers/anchors telling you that you need to pay attention to an event, people are going to think that it's important and do so. Does the NHL have a PR dept?
I don't get sport journalists that tear apart hockey, its one of the few good sport products that are out there in the US.

Baseball, honestly, is all tradition. People complain at soccer for beeing boring if you aren't in to it, baseball beats that and then some. Though tradition itself is great, and Baseball therfor have a good product. Fotball, a great sports, but its prety sterotyped, allot of adrenaline and tactics, its not very spectacular. Basketball, sure its extremely spectacular, but when I watch a NBA game I kind of get a circus feeling...

I mean the sports interest in the US are defenitly pretty small compared to other comparable countrys. I mean in England its "Super Bowl sunday" 30 times per year during the Premier League... In the US it seems to be allot more Paris Hilton then real serious sport interest among the youth.

If I where a reporter in the US, I would hype hockey, cause its a good product. Allot better in the long run then allot of the stuff showed at ESPN ect. I mean sure Nascar and poker can be exciting, though its not even comparable with hockey when it comes to the possibilitys to create a product of it. You watch the races in Nascar, its not like you follow it during the off season or between races that much.

In the end its a fact that hockey is more physical then the NFL ever can be, how hard can a hit be running 18 mph compared to a player skating 40 mph and then hitting someone. Hockey can also compete with the NBA's spectacularism. Hockey have goalies, they attact allot of young kids.

So I don't get it, if sports journailsts in the US wanted more to do, wanted to take a pice of the entertainment pie from Paris Hilton and Survivor they ought to hype hockey, not do the opposite.

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Old
10-10-2006, 06:21 AM
  #14
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NHL has a huge fan base in Europe. NFL and - whatever the baseball league is called - certainly don't (NBA has also a fan base of course). Baseball must be the slowest sport there is.

If NHL would focus more on the European market, they would surely at least kill off the competitors football and baseball.

NHL also has to think about its future. If I could watch a NHL game over internet and see exactly the games I want to see, I would gladly pay.

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10-10-2006, 06:34 AM
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Actually America is the only country in the world where hockey has any following at all in non-snow climate areas. Even in the old Soviet Union, where hockey was the number one winter sport, interest was sparse once you passed into the moderate climates. If you don't play a sport as a kid, you are not inclined to pick it up as an adult when more serious things are on your mind most of the time. The NHL expansion south has been a phenomenal success when measured against the odds. Maybe in the future when supersonic travel makes it possible, a more realistic alignment if you want rabid following would be to put all the teams in the snow cities of the world.

There is no accounting for taste either. Lithuania and Latvia have the same climate, but Lithuania (Kasparaitis excepted) is basketball county while Lativa (Ozolinsh) is hockey country. Why that happened, no one can explain and of course it may change.

Hockey in the states faces a demographic handicap as well in that it doesn't appeal to minority residents of the big cities. This has nothing to do with formal discrimination as in baseball -- the Bruins had a black player before the Red Sox -- it's just that until a quarter-century ago almost all of the players were from Canada and the demographics are different there.

None of the big four US sports has made any impact in the UK, a sports-mad country, and that's particuarly surprising as far as basketball goes. On the other hand their meat and potatoes, soccer, cricket, and rugby, can't make any headway in the states, although soccer is coming along.

The writer is wasting his breath on a non-issue. Hockey has a massive fan base and is thriving. And this without a majority of American players nor visual appeal on television. Its revenues can only increase barring economic depression because at some point broadcasting will switch to the Internet and hockey broadcasts will reach far more people around the world than football or baseball or even basketball.

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10-10-2006, 07:43 AM
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To me, hockey is the great local band I love, but hope they never cut the single that gets them nation wide acclaim.

If hockey ever got the coverage in the US that Basketball, Baseball and Football get, it'd just be bastardized by sports anchors that don't understand what makes the game so great. They'd totally strip it of it's dignity, honor and history.

Then you'd see hockey players acting like T.O. and Dennis Rodman so they can sell their books. No way, not for me.

F--- the media. They do nothing but ruin everything that's great about the world, I'd prefer they keep their slime trails away from my hockey.

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10-10-2006, 07:45 AM
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I think these kind of articles really miss the point...

They spend too much time comparing the NHL to other leagues like the NFL and MLB, when it ultimately shouldn't be. The NHL can do just fine and be profitable and popular in its target areas, and it's only until you compare it to the "big" sports that these kind of comments come in.

So what if hockey isn't as big as the NFL? It's still a profitable business with millions of fans. It's not in danger of going away.

I've always felt that what other leagues have going for them is that fans will be more willing to watch teams other than their own, and that games are scheduled better.

How many non football fans do you think really tune into the nationally televised Sunday football games? I'd be willing to bet it's not many. Yet this is the same kind of thing that the NHL gets bashed for...

But I feel football fans are more likely to just want to watch football, even if their own team isn't playing. I also feel this goes for other sports as well, while hockey seems to be more focused around the individual teams.

Also, whenever they schedule nationally televised games, it seems like there's a bunch of other games going on at the same time, so you ultimately just get the fans of the two teams who are playing instead of a wider range of hockey fans. Everyone else is watching their own team play!

eh, ultimately hockey isn't as popular as other big sports, but it doesn't have to be. It's really only a problem when people start comparing it to the NFL and acting like it has to be that popular or it's a failure

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10-10-2006, 08:05 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post

They spend too much time comparing the NHL to other leagues like the NFL and MLB, when it ultimately shouldn't be.
...but I think Bettman wants it to be. He'll gladly turn his back on the hardcore fan if it means he'll bring in 5 new casual fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd2imagin

To me, hockey is the great local band I love, but hope they never cut the single that gets them nation wide acclaim
That's a good analogy.

Too many people in the US love to be associated with the biggest and most popular things. It governs the cars they drive, the shows they watch and the sports they are fans of. Articles like this just make those people feel better about themselves I guess. Otherwise, pointless enough that I was unable to finish reading it.

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10-10-2006, 08:29 AM
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He had some valid points regarding how poorly the sport is marketed. However, he basically exposed himself, and the rest of the media for that matter, when he mentioned that it's hard to sell hockey in the U.S. when there aren't a lot of players from L.A., Chicago, or New York. Basically, the media in the U.S. has an easier time selling smoke than fire. That is to say, ESPN and other major U.S. sports media outlets will infinitely replay the highlight reels of Joe Horn pulling out a cell phone after scoring a TD, or a player doing some stupid dance after tackling a player, or the slam-dunking and chest-thumping NBA. Not to mention all the off-the-field/court stories of shootings or other brushes with the law that Americans just seem to swallow whole.

I guess the NHL, according to the media, would be much more marketable in the U.S. if, perhaps during the PK after a player whose team is playing with one less man clears the puck out of the zone, that player would lie face down on the ice and make swimming motions as a way of entertaining the American viewing audience. Or maybe if a goalie makes a wicked glove save, he can spike the puck on the ice and start dancing like Ray Lewis after a sack.

I know I'm being a bit sarcastic here, but a lot of what I'm saying about selling "showtime" in sports is true. How can an audience made up of a majority of fans who never laced up a pair of skates in their lives appreciate the technical points of the game, especially if they have no clue how hard it is to do? It's easier to sell the flashy celebrations and personal controversy than the game itself.

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10-10-2006, 08:37 AM
  #20
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The NBA is definitely less popular than the NHL. Just to point things out, this is FOX. They'll do whatever for attention, even if its bashing NHL fans. NHL fans are more loyal than any other sport, heck even Devils fans are fairly loyal. The point is, FOX is always one sided and its usually the side no one wants. Go watch the Clinton interview that he did on FOX, a lot of what he says is true, and you'll see my point.

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10-10-2006, 08:55 AM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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Jratelle...

Thats true, america eats up overzealous and boisterous acts of celebration (in my mind total stupidity, youll see a guy dancing in the endzone after scoring a td in the 4th quarter when his team is down 45-20) and as much as some of the media says its "wrong" or "not sportsmanlike" it doesnt matter because its what sells, and thats the bottom line.

IF the NHL and Gary reaaaallly wanted to market this game and cut corners to make this game "must see tv" they could do some outlandish things like mandate cheerleaders/icedancers for each team, lower the infractions on fighting, encourage excessive celebrations and set off fireworks after each goal on the sides of the rink like wrestling matches do. Thats what america wants, to have there eyes entertained by meaningless flash, archaic scintillation and boobs.

Everyone knows thats not hockey and is much much more pure than that.

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10-10-2006, 09:46 AM
  #22
Ola
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Thats true, america eats up overzealous and boisterous acts of celebration (in my mind total stupidity, youll see a guy dancing in the endzone after scoring a td in the 4th quarter when his team is down 45-20) and as much as some of the media says its "wrong" or "not sportsmanlike" it doesnt matter because its what sells, and thats the bottom line.

IF the NHL and Gary reaaaallly wanted to market this game and cut corners to make this game "must see tv" they could do some outlandish things like mandate cheerleaders/icedancers for each team, lower the infractions on fighting, encourage excessive celebrations and set off fireworks after each goal on the sides of the rink like wrestling matches do. Thats what america wants, to have there eyes entertained by meaningless flash, archaic scintillation and boobs.

Everyone knows thats not hockey and is much much more pure than that.
I am thousands of miles away, so take my opinion for what its worth. But I think you are wrong.

What you describes is what the US public gets, I don't think that is what they want!
If that is what they wanted, the kids would choose to follow the NBA instead of Survivor and Paris Hilton...

Or maybe not the kids, but its the battle of the kids who the NBA and other sports seems to try to win. Give up the fight for thoose who want that stuff, and just create a good product. To my knowledge, analogy, in showbiz its products like Seinfeld, Friends, ER and Sopranos who gets most viewers. Not the P. Hilton or reality shows.

In sports in the US there aren't a real Friends or ER. Not like soccer in England. Hockey have the potential to have that quality, maybe not reach that hight nationally, but in big areas.

I think good sport products appeal a entire nation, all people, like soccer in England for example. Right now I have three proffesors in school, all three are huge hockeyfans. Because a good sports product attracts everyone, there are so many aspects that you can sell. There seems to be a big majority of casual sports fans in the US, fans that jumps from sport to sport, goes with the wind, I think 80% of the population in England would be described as die hard fans of soccer gooing by the US scale.

Thats why I think it ought to be in the medias best interest to do everything to sell the game, not kick on it!

Cause hockey is a very good product.

I am 100% sure that the reason Hockey aren't as big in the US as the other sports are tradition! Hockey aren't as easy to pick up, hockey don't have the history that baseball have, on the same subject comes the climate, in big parts of the US kids can't play outside ect.

What the NHL needs to do is have patient. They need to find a mix where they grow steadily over a long period of time, build up a grassroot ect.


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10-10-2006, 09:55 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Hockey is the second most popular sport in the WORLD. Funny thing is the most popular one (Soccer) is also not big here either.

I also like how he fails to talk about the US markets where the NHL is very strong and has been (DET, SJ, DAL, COL, PHI, MIN, and even TB recently). This to me was just an article to bash the sport I love and for that I want to beat this guy!
As a nation as whole nobody cares he is spot on. Why would he mention that its the second biggest sport in the world?... it has nothing to do with the article... hes talking about hockey in America. And he isn't bashing the sport, he's pointing out that nobody cares in America. which is very true.

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10-10-2006, 09:59 AM
  #24
HockeyBasedNYC
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Ola...

Hockey has a great tradition/history.. no way as ingrained as the "national pastime" in baseball, but surely as much history as football and basketball, though most americans and casual hockey fans fail to recognize. Look it how big that stanley cup is! All those rings and names on there go way back, so far back some teams had to be taken off. - thats great tradition...especially in original 6 cities.

America's youth loves WWF, Fear Factor, Survivor, American Idol and crap like that... thats the overdramatic garbage i was talking about...

Quote:
What you describes is what the US public gets, I don't think that is what they want! If that is what they wanted, the kids would choose to follow the NBA instead of Survivor and Paris Hilton..


It may be what the public gets, not necessarily what it wants, but america is driven on the bottom line, and thats what sells... and that, essentially is what is being discussed in this article whether it becomes apparent or not... money and power (success), just like everything else in this nation.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 10-10-2006 at 10:06 AM.
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10-10-2006, 10:07 AM
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jagrgodr
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I think the sport is deffinitly marketable, and fans can do alot to help. If you can edit video, go make a movie on your favorite team or a general hockey movie and upload it to youtube. Have alot of great hits, alot of deeks and amazing goals, put rap / hip-hop music to it so you can appeal to the younger people. Hell you can even upload a video you already have to youtube.

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