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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

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06-07-2013, 12:47 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Maybe I've been let down so many times by this franchise and I'm so ready for change that I'm being overly optimistic; but I just think we're ready for this kind of thinking. Ready to give the youth a real shot. The UFA market is garbage. Let the kids play.
I don't understand the thinking that the Rangers haven't been giving the kids a chance to play. Our top 4 Dmen (depending on where you slot MDZ) are all homegrown. I doubt there's many teams who can say the same thing. Obviously, Lundqvist is homegrown. At forward, we've got Stepan, Callahan and Hagelin playing prominent roles with the team and Zucc and Kreider, who will likely also be playing prominent roles for the team next season. If we were able to draft some more talented kids, we'd be better off but I think the organization has done a fine job bringing kids into the lineup.

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06-07-2013, 12:57 PM
  #127
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I don't understand the thinking that the Rangers haven't been giving the kids a chance to play. Our top 4 Dmen (depending on where you slot MDZ) are all homegrown. I doubt there's many teams who can say the same thing. Obviously, Lundqvist is homegrown. At forward, we've got Stepan, Callahan and Hagelin playing prominent roles with the team and Zucc and Kreider, who will likely also be playing prominent roles for the team next season. If we were able to draft some more talented kids, we'd be better off but I think the organization has done a fine job bringing kids into the lineup.
Which encapsulates my point. Look at the kids we have in the lineup. They're good, cost-controlled options who have become some of our top performers. I'm not saying we've been excluding kids from the lineup. Far from it in fact. I'm just saying that we should stick with what works. Why go out and sign a 3rd line center when we have Lindberg and Miller who can battle for that spot in camp? Why invest cap space in a lousy FA market when we've demonstrated more success at filling those holes from within?

Continue to do a fine job bringing kids into the lineup. Stick with what has worked and avoid the landmines we continue to step on in free agency.

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06-07-2013, 01:08 PM
  #128
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Which encapsulates my point. Look at the kids we have in the lineup. They're good, cost-controlled options who have become some of our top performers. I'm not saying we've been excluding kids from the lineup. Far from it in fact. I'm just saying that we should stick with what works. Why go out and sign a 3rd line center when we have Lindberg and Miller who can battle for that spot in camp? Why invest cap space in a lousy FA market when we've demonstrated more success at filling those holes from within?

Continue to do a fine job bringing kids into the lineup. Stick with what has worked and avoid the landmines we continue to step on in free agency.
Besides Stepan and McDonagh, what kids have made consistent/higher-end contributions?

Gaborik and Richards, for instance, were a big part of why last year's team was a #1 seed in the east. They weren't the answers this season, but somebody needs to be, and I don't think the solution is going to come from a few kids trying to find their way in the NHL.

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06-07-2013, 01:11 PM
  #129
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If we were able to draft some more talented kids, we'd be better off but I think the organization has done a fine job bringing kids into the lineup.
More talented kids, absolutely. We can argue about why that hasn't happened more often than not, but the part I question is 'fine job bringing in kids', almost like a subtle after effect on fans after having those embarrassing veteran lineups Pre-Lundqvist.

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06-07-2013, 01:12 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Besides Stepan and McDonagh, what kids have made consistent/higher-end contributions?

Gaborik and Richards, for instance, were a big part of why last year's team was a #1 seed in the east. They weren't the answers this season, but somebody needs to be, and I don't think the solution is going to come from a few kids trying to find their way in the NHL.
Hoping Staal can have a big impact. Hoping Kreider becomes a legit NHLer. Hoping the additions of Brassard, Dorsett and Moore help and they all take another slight step with their games (Moore and Brassard moreso than Dorsett).

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06-07-2013, 01:14 PM
  #131
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Sorry the Time is now to Field a Stanley Cup team.
We don't have any true Veteran Leadership, as Richards has failed and should be bought out.
So you want to bring in veterans.. Sign free agents, trade some young guys for experienced players.. ?

Where have I heard this before?

No, no..

How many times have I heard this before...?

Nope. Still not quite right. I'll try again.

How many times have we witnessed 'veteran leaders' in Ranger blue, fail to live up to their miserable contracts?

Did you just become a Rangers fan, by any chance?

Your recipe for success has been replicated many, many times, and has always failed. Except that one time, almost 20 years ago..

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How many more decades is it going to take for Ranger fans to realize that "bringing in veteran leadership" usually fails here?
But it worked in '94!!!!

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Skipping one summer of lousy free agents isn't going to sink the ship. Especially if you can pursue alternate avenues of improving the team, which I think is entirely possible.
Exactly.

You also have to keep in mind that those overpaid free-agents that we're not signing, are being signed by our competition. And in today's game, nothing is sweeter than seeing your rivals blow their load on a contract that'll hamstring them for many years.

Our prospects haven't disappointed. Our management has been consistently leaving some open positions, and they've done a fine job solidifying those spots.

Although we lack those true blue chippers, the Carl Hagelins, Ryan Callahans, and Dan Girardi's have proven you don't need to be a top-prospect to become a solid NHL player.

I think there's another wave of youngsters ready for make a splash. Miller and Kreider should make the team. McIlrath, Lindberg, Hrvik, and Fast should challenge for spots too.

Another avenue we can explore, are secondary guys. Guys that came here under the radar and just, got the job done. Fedotenko. Prospal. Stralman. Low risk guys that might need an opportunity or change of scenery. (Prospal's situation was a little different but I'm sure you get what I'm saying).

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06-07-2013, 01:24 PM
  #132
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I don't see Clowe signing a 3/9 contract. He'll be looking for a nice payday. Especially at this point in his career.

Which GM is going to get desperate? Hopefully it's not Sather.

I like Ryder as an option, but same story as Clowe. He'll get in the 4M~ range. Too many years.

These guys want their pay day. Especially at this point in their careers, where their bodies become a little more brittle.

Awful year for free agency. There's issues with every single player available. Injuries. Age. Money. Production.

Avoid them like the plague.

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06-07-2013, 01:25 PM
  #133
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And before you can do that, you need a coach!
i would think management, if they were smart, would decide how they want to build this team, then get a coach best suited to coach that kind of a team.

I don't think you get a speed transition type coach to coach a team full of Clowes, Pyatts, Ashams, and Boyles, ya know?

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06-07-2013, 01:27 PM
  #134
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Don't be like "people change their names"
He's probably mistaking you for another poster who earlier in the year was proposing we trade Stepan and do what it takes to acquire Jokinen and Ruutu. Not going to lie, I thought you were him too.

Do you like Wolski, by any chance?

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06-07-2013, 01:30 PM
  #135
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I don't think you get a speed transition type coach to coach a team full of Clowes, Pyatts, Ashams, and Boyles, ya know?
Clowe's an UFA, Pyatt, Asham, and Boyle have 1 year remaining on their contracts. I don't think you should avoid anything based on what we have right now.

The core of this team can adapt to a different style, imo.

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06-07-2013, 01:33 PM
  #136
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i would think management, if they were smart, would decide how they want to build this team, then get a coach best suited to coach that kind of a team.

I don't think you get a speed transition type coach to coach a team full of Clowes, Pyatts, Ashams, and Boyles, ya know?
It's a classic chicken or egg argument. You don't have to bring Clowe back. You can look to deal the others if you must. Look to the core (which is going to remain the same likely, minus Richards) and there's enough to go off of when you interview a coach.

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06-07-2013, 01:37 PM
  #137
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It's a gamble. I'm certainly not trying to imply that our kids are a guarantee, but I'd like to stick with the people who really come through for us on a regular basis. It's always been my belief that players you develop from within have an intangible quality that you just don't get with free agents -- older ones in particular. If you gave a kid his first shot in the NHL, he can give you an extra gear that many other players cannot reach deep enough for. It's not quantifiable, but it's there.

I'm not advocating the nuclear option of trading Lundqvist, at least not yet. What I'm saying is that bringing in talent from the outside hasn't been as effective as what we've done from within. I'd like to stick with that strategy, for the most part at least, this summer. If Hank says he doesn't buy into it and wants out, then trade him. That's his prerogative.

I don't think this team is that far away. Perhaps it's me holding our prospects in higher regard than they deserve, but I think we're close. If you trade Del Zotto for a scoring forward, that gives us 3 top-six forwards in Nash, Callahan, and "player X." Between Hrivik, Kreider and Fast, we should be able to get at least one scoring forward from that group for the 4th top-six winger. Between Miller and Lindberg, I think one of them should win the 3rd line center spot this fall. I think a RH, offensive defender can be attained from a group that includes McBain, Ellis, Elliot, Barrie, Murphy, Vatanen, etc. Two shrewd trades and two kids making it out of camp isn't a monumental mountain to climb. If it works, I think this team can be just as successful next season as it was this season, but more importantly, it would have the potential to continue to grow together as a unit, and not a collection of individuals.

Maybe I've been let down so many times by this franchise and I'm so ready for change that I'm being overly optimistic; but I just think we're ready for this kind of thinking. Ready to give the youth a real shot. The UFA market is garbage. Let the kids play.
Agree with most of this. I want to see Kreider, Miller and Lindberg in the lineup next year. Maybe not Lindberg out of camp but soon after. I'm not ready to give up on MDZ like some others but if he and Boyle can be packaged for a high scoring LW then I'm in on moving him. Otherwise our D is set and then it's a question of what the forwards look like. If we cannot trade for a LW I would go with what we have under a new system which includes trying to retain Clowe at the right price. So we start with (meaning with Hags and Cally healthy)

Kreider Step Nash
Clowe Brassard Zucc
Hags Miller Cally
Powe/Pyatt Boyle Dorsett

I'm one of those who thinks that the PP failures were part lack of a point shot and part system. Moore, McD, and Stralman can all bring it from the point; they need a chance to be creative without the fear of a benching for any defensive mistake. With Torts gone I'd like to see what this group can do before making wholesale changes.

If Lindberg and McI prove to be ready early in the season then we take another swipe at getting that scoring wing. And Fast/Thomas/Hrivik are other wildcards that could help our scoring woes if they are up to the task.

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06-07-2013, 01:37 PM
  #138
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And before you can do that, you need a coach!


But there's not a coach team in the league that ices 12 fast forwards or 12 bruisers up front.

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06-07-2013, 01:37 PM
  #139
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Agree with most of this. I want to see Kreider, Miller and Lindberg in the lineup next year. Maybe not Lindberg out of camp but soon after. I'm not ready to give up on MDZ like some others but if he and Boyle can be packaged for a high scoring LW then I'm in on moving him. Otherwise our D is set and then it's a question of what the forwards look like. If we cannot trade for a LW I would go with what we have under a new system which includes trying to retain Clowe at the right price. So we start with (meaning with Hags and Cally healthy)

Kreider Step Nash
Clowe Brassard Zucc
Hags Miller Cally
Powe/Pyatt Boyle Dorsett

I'm one of those who thinks that the PP failures were part lack of a point shot and part system. Moore, McD, and Stralman can all bring it from the point; they need a chance to be creative without the fear of a benching for any defensive mistake. With Torts gone I'd like to see what this group can do before making wholesale changes.

If Lindberg and McI prove to be ready early in the season then we take another swipe at getting that scoring wing. And Fast/Thomas/Hrivik are other wildcards that could help our scoring woes if they are up to the task.
I thought Boyle was gone for sure?

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06-07-2013, 01:38 PM
  #140
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But there's not a coach team in the league that ices 12 fast forwards or 12 bruisers up front.
I agree.

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06-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #141
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It's a classic chicken or egg argument. You don't have to bring Clowe back. You can look to deal the others if you must. Look to the core (which is going to remain the same likely, minus Richards) and there's enough to go off of when you interview a coach.
true, again though, i personally feel the first step is for Management to decide...ok, this is what kind of ateam we want to be...the Boston Bruins 2.0 or something...then, go get a coach who can coach that kind of a team and who wants to work with what kind of a system.

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06-07-2013, 01:43 PM
  #142
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It's a classic chicken or egg argument. You don't have to bring Clowe back. You can look to deal the others if you must. Look to the core (which is going to remain the same likely, minus Richards) and there's enough to go off of when you interview a coach.
there it is... it's back the classic chicken and egg..

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06-07-2013, 01:44 PM
  #143
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And before you can do that, you need a coach!
Not necessarily, put together the team first or at least the idea of it/the identity of it and then hire the coach who you think suits best for the plan going forward.

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06-07-2013, 01:46 PM
  #144
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true, again though, i personally feel the first step is for Management to decide...ok, this is what kind of ateam we want to be...the Boston Bruins 2.0 or something...then, go get a coach who can coach that kind of a team and who wants to work with what kind of a system.
If you look at the core, I think that decision is made. Depending on who the coach is, they can make tweaks to complement.

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06-07-2013, 01:47 PM
  #145
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Not necessarily, put together the team first or at least the idea of it/the identity of it and then hire the coach who you think suits best for the plan going forward.
"Heres the poor man's Boston Bruins, if you dont win a cup with them within 4 years, you'll be fired too"

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06-07-2013, 01:48 PM
  #146
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If you look at the core, I think that decision is made. Depending on who the coach is, they can make tweaks to complement.
That decision is never made - and if it is, it changes on a whim.

Derek Brassard has been a Ranger for about 2 months - now hes part of the core. All part of the master plan, right? Ha.


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06-07-2013, 01:51 PM
  #147
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true, again though, i personally feel the first step is for Management to decide...ok, this is what kind of ateam we want to be...the Boston Bruins 2.0 or something...then, go get a coach who can coach that kind of a team and who wants to work with what kind of a system.
I'm not sure that management can really do that and that's one of my biggest gripes with them. Every move seems to be made in a vacuum with out any thought about how it might effect the team. Look at the timeline:

Spring 2012: "We are having trouble scoring in the playoffs"

July 24, 2012: "Yay! We traded for Rick Nash. Now we will have two top scorers!"

February 2013: "Oh no, we have no depth!"

Arpil 4, 2013: "Ok, so we traded Gaborik. Now we have depth! Yay!:

May 2013: "Oh no! We're having trouble scoring in the playoffs...:

May 29, 2013: "Torts...about that you returning next season thing...."

I agree there needs to be some sort of organizational philosophy. But this management seems incapable of deciding one. This team was built for Torts and now he's gone.

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06-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #148
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That decision is never made - and if it is, it changes on a whim.

Derek Brassard has been a Ranger for about 2 months - not hes part of the core. All part of the master plan, right? Ha.
Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Nash, Kreider. That's 5 of the top 6. Those are not going anywhere.

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06-07-2013, 01:53 PM
  #149
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I'm not sure that management can really do that and that's one of my biggest gripes with them. Every move seems to be made in a vacuum with out any thought about how it might effect the team. Look at the timeline:

Spring 2012: "We are having trouble scoring in the playoffs"

July 24, 2012: "Yay! We traded for Rick Nash. Now we will have two top scorers!"

February 2013: "Oh no, we have no depth!"

Arpil 4, 2013: "Ok, so we traded Gaborik. Now we have depth! Yay!:

May 2013: "Oh no! We're having trouble scoring in the playoffs...:

May 29, 2013: "Torts...about that you returning next season thing...."

I agree there needs to be some sort of organizational philosophy. But this management seems incapable of deciding one. This team was built for Torts and now he's gone.
I still believe Nash was brought in to be Gaborik's replacement. They wanted to try it out for a season to see what they could do. It didn't work. They traded Gaborik a bit earlier than anticipated and got a solid return.

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06-07-2013, 01:57 PM
  #150
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Not necessarily, put together the team first or at least the idea of it/the identity of it and then hire the coach who you think suits best for the plan going forward.
Tell me how they're going to do that with the salary cap *unless you're ready to make wholesale changes. They're locked into this roster for a the foreseeable future it seems.

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