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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-06-2013, 09:27 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I thought Pulock is mostly criticized for his skating along with his defensive play?

------------
I doubt Pulock gets to the second round anyway. I believe he was bringing up that some scouts see him as second rounder to prove that he's not a slam dunk like some like to think, not that's he going to actually end up there.
There's roughly a 0% chance that Pulock makes it to the second round. If he makes it to 20, someone is getting a steal. You just don't get an AHL ready powerplay QB at that stage in a draft.

Pulock was an easy top 10 going into this past season and the only thing he did to hurt that was get a little hurt to start the season and play on a bad team. He progressed as much as you would hope.

I hope that Pulock doesn't slide that far, because it just means that a team is going to get a better player than their slot should allow... just like the Pens did with Maatta.

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06-06-2013, 09:40 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
My own personal views is that Morrissey is miles ahead of Pulock .
Having watched both players a fair bit, I thoroughly disagree. They are both excellent players and when I did a little ranking of the top 15 or so players, they ended up 11 and 12.

Morrissey to me has the higher ceiling (due to being the best skater, good passer, solid physicality, does everything at a bit above average level), but the lower floor (because he has to develop physically and he takes too many chances).

Pulock has the higher floor (he has an NHL body already, tremendous leadership, the best shot amongst the defensemen, good decision-maker), but a bit lower ceiling because he has only average skating and he's not expected to grow a whole lot more.

I love high ceiling, but let's not forget that most guys never reach their ceiling. You can anticipate Morrissey getting bigger, but sometimes that doesn't happen or it doesn't lead to the improvement you expect.

Both of these players are worthy of our consideration at number 11. I personnally would like to see one of Nurse or Ristolainen fall to us, but either Morrissey or Pulock are fine consilation prizes whom I personally like more than the physical specimens (Zad and Morin), but I see why people like defensemen that have size.

Draft needs to get here already. Tired of these ridiculous circular arguments.... I'm probably defending Pulock only to have to watch him get drafted by a division rival and become a monster offensive producer

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06-07-2013, 06:54 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I thought Pulock is mostly criticized for his skating along with his defensive play?

------------
I doubt Pulock gets to the second round anyway. I believe he was bringing up that some scouts see him as second rounder to prove that he's not a slam dunk like some like to think, not that's he going to actually end up there.
Pulock isn't a terrible skater. He's not a speedster and I think that's where the misconception of him being a bad skater comes into play. It's similar to Luke Schenn. People said he was also a bad skater, but as we all saw this year, he's not a terrible skater at all. He's not a speed burner though and that's where all these misconceptions come into play about Pulock.

As well, as for Pulock's defensive play, he was converted to defense when he was 15 years old. In his defense, he's still learning the position. Whoever drafts Pulock, they're going to need someone in place who can really work with him on the finer points of playing defense. It's not as if he's terrible, but there's still a lot of ground he needs to cover. He's gotten significantly better in that aspect year after year.

As for what JTown said, Pulock has pretty much maxed out physically. And Broad Street Elite, I've watched a lot of Morrissey and Pulock as well and I really do think that Morrissey is miles ahead of Pulock and it's not close. Yes, Pulock has the higher floor. No doubt about it. But I really believe that what you see is what you get with Pulock.

As for Morrissey, I think he stands a great chance at reaching his ceiling. People forget that he just turned 18 back in March and he's pushing nearly 6'1, 190 pounds. He's already added some weight to his frame and he's grown nearly two inches since the start of the WHL hockey year.

I guess in the end, it depends on what type of player you're looking for. To me, Pulock is probably going to be one of those power play specialist type guys that will need a strong defensive partner to shield him from being exposed. I really think Pulock projects to be a Dion Phaneuf type of player. Morrissey seems to be the kind of guy that can do it all and make it look effortless. I really think he projects to be a Duncan Keith/Drew Doughty/Kimmo Timonen type of player. You might also be able to make a case that Morrissey could become an Erik Karlsson type of player.

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06-07-2013, 07:11 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't want any part of Nichushkin unless he's at 11? I don't want us trading anything for him.
You are not alone. I'd rather just take the BDA at 11.

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06-07-2013, 07:30 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
You are not alone. I'd rather just take the BDA at 11.
Assuming BDA is not a typo, I agree. Best defender available (unless Nichuskin is there at 11 or someone unexpected falls like Drouin for some reason).

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06-07-2013, 09:18 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post


Having watched both players a fair bit, I thoroughly disagree. They are both excellent players and when I did a little ranking of the top 15 or so players, they ended up 11 and 12.

Morrissey to me has the higher ceiling (due to being the best skater, good passer, solid physicality, does everything at a bit above average level), but the lower floor (because he has to develop physically and he takes too many chances).

Pulock has the higher floor (he has an NHL body already, tremendous leadership, the best shot amongst the defensemen, good decision-maker), but a bit lower ceiling because he has only average skating and he's not expected to grow a whole lot more.

I love high ceiling, but let's not forget that most guys never reach their ceiling. You can anticipate Morrissey getting bigger, but sometimes that doesn't happen or it doesn't lead to the improvement you expect.

Both of these players are worthy of our consideration at number 11. I personnally would like to see one of Nurse or Ristolainen fall to us, but either Morrissey or Pulock are fine consilation prizes whom I personally like more than the physical specimens (Zad and Morin), but I see why people like defensemen that have size.

Draft needs to get here already. Tired of these ridiculous circular arguments.... I'm probably defending Pulock only to have to watch him get drafted by a division rival and become a monster offensive producer
Sadly, this is life outside of the playoffs. We're used to just now starting to get into who we should draft, and usually there isnt as much hype about drafting in the mid 20's.

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06-07-2013, 09:30 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post


Having watched both players a fair bit, I thoroughly disagree. They are both excellent players and when I did a little ranking of the top 15 or so players, they ended up 11 and 12.

Morrissey to me has the higher ceiling (due to being the best skater, good passer, solid physicality, does everything at a bit above average level), but the lower floor (because he has to develop physically and he takes too many chances).

Pulock has the higher floor (he has an NHL body already, tremendous leadership, the best shot amongst the defensemen, good decision-maker), but a bit lower ceiling because he has only average skating and he's not expected to grow a whole lot more.

I love high ceiling, but let's not forget that most guys never reach their ceiling. You can anticipate Morrissey getting bigger, but sometimes that doesn't happen or it doesn't lead to the improvement you expect.

Both of these players are worthy of our consideration at number 11. I personnally would like to see one of Nurse or Ristolainen fall to us, but either Morrissey or Pulock are fine consilation prizes whom I personally like more than the physical specimens (Zad and Morin).
I see Nurse and Ristolainen as more of 2-way defensemen, we have enough Coburn's already.
We have enough defensive-minded defensemen, to coverup some defensive lapses,
what we need is another power play defenseman.

I am in favor of drafting a defenseman with offensive tools,
rather than hoping their limited offensive skills develop later.

My fear with Morrisey is that he will lose his elite speed as he fills out his frame.
People assume that his skating speed will still be elite after a year or 2 of development.
I am not convinced because getting bigger in sports means adding weight which could hurt your speed.

I see Pulock as closer to NHL ready and a better offensive weapon than Morrisey.

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06-07-2013, 09:41 AM
  #108
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Coburn's not really a 2-way defenseman anymore, but I'm also a fan of drafting Pulock.

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06-07-2013, 11:13 AM
  #109
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I don't know where this criticism of pulocks skating came from. The games I've seen of him, his skating definite did not look like a hinderance whatsoever. I'm not going to sit here and say he's a tremendous skater or has blazing speed, but I definitely did not see the deficiency in the area that people seem to be claiming he has. He looks like a fine skater to me.

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06-07-2013, 11:27 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I don't know where this criticism of pulocks skating came from. The games I've seen of him, his skating definite did not look like a hinderance whatsoever. I'm not going to sit here and say he's a tremendous skater or has blazing speed, but I definitely did not see the deficiency in the area that people seem to be claiming he has. He looks like a fine skater to me.
Posted it in the last debate. Scouting reports differ while atleast half state his skating and defensive play is average. Check out pronmans review on him.

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06-07-2013, 12:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Pulock isn't a terrible skater. He's not a speedster and I think that's where the misconception of him being a bad skater comes into play. It's similar to Luke Schenn. People said he was also a bad skater, but as we all saw this year, he's not a terrible skater at all. He's not a speed burner though and that's where all these misconceptions come into play about Pulock.

As well, as for Pulock's defensive play, he was converted to defense when he was 15 years old. In his defense, he's still learning the position. Whoever drafts Pulock, they're going to need someone in place who can really work with him on the finer points of playing defense. It's not as if he's terrible, but there's still a lot of ground he needs to cover. He's gotten significantly better in that aspect year after year.

As for what JTown said, Pulock has pretty much maxed out physically. And Broad Street Elite, I've watched a lot of Morrissey and Pulock as well and I really do think that Morrissey is miles ahead of Pulock and it's not close. Yes, Pulock has the higher floor. No doubt about it. But I really believe that what you see is what you get with Pulock.

As for Morrissey, I think he stands a great chance at reaching his ceiling. People forget that he just turned 18 back in March and he's pushing nearly 6'1, 190 pounds. He's already added some weight to his frame and he's grown nearly two inches since the start of the WHL hockey year.

I guess in the end, it depends on what type of player you're looking for. To me, Pulock is probably going to be one of those power play specialist type guys that will need a strong defensive partner to shield him from being exposed. I really think Pulock projects to be a Dion Phaneuf type of player. Morrissey seems to be the kind of guy that can do it all and make it look effortless. I really think he projects to be a Duncan Keith/Drew Doughty/Kimmo Timonen type of player. You might also be able to make a case that Morrissey could become an Erik Karlsson type of player.
This is what I always think of when watching him but didn't want to say it. Could be wrong but it's what I think/

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06-07-2013, 12:06 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
My fear with Morrisey is that he will lose his elite speed as he fills out his frame.
People assume that his skating speed will still be elite after a year or 2 of development.
I am not convinced because getting bigger in sports means adding weight which could hurt your speed.
He'll need to add muscle mass to upper body. There's no doubt about that. The big thing will be ensuring that his legs are also being worked out accordingly. If he adds muscle to his legs, that's only going to help in terms of power and explosiveness. If anything, it might just make him even faster as he'll have that much of a better jump.

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06-07-2013, 01:16 PM
  #113
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Pulock skates like Campbell. True? Not true? Help.

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06-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #114
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Pulock skates like Campbell. True? Not true? Help.
Brian Campbell? Not true. Pulock is not that fast of a skater. If you want a better comparison of who Pulock skates like, look at Nick Hjalmarsson from Chicago. Not a blazer, but a solid, solid skater.

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06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
  #115
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I really think we should go with Josh Morrissey at 11. (I know BPA) If Nuchushkin is there take him but the more I see Morrissey play- in videos- He looks like exactly what we need. We dont really need more size or hitting, we have plenty of that (he is a Great hitter too BTW) He is the same size and similar game to Erik Karlsson (huge comparison I know)
Here is A link to a scouting report http://jrhockeyrecruit.com/2012/12/j...outing-report/

His "Strengths" look like the hardest to teach and his "Needs to Improve" look like the easiest to fix. The video is sick too. If his skills transfer over to the NHL then he is Exactly what we need!

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06-07-2013, 01:55 PM
  #116
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I will say one thing, all this nonsense about these 18 year old's maxing out physically is extremely silly. They will only get better and bigger with age, till around 25-26 for hockey players. Normally men peak in muscle around the age of 30. So we can stop worrying about these players maxing out physically already, they still will grow and get better with proper training.

Source: The internet. I believe everything on it.

I still think, if we have to make comparisons, Pulock reminds me of Suter. He will not join the rush too much and relies on solid out let passes and that bomb of a shot to collect his points. He will occasionally join as the 4th player on a rush, but when I was watching he did most of his scoring from the back end. Solid puck mover too.

Also finally downloaded and printed my FC draft guide. They have us picking Zads of course at 11. 14 Pulock goes. I will be happy with whoever the Flyers take at the draft. It won't be till 2-3 years down the road to see if they on the right track or not. Then I can swear and curse at our FO if they make a bad selection.


Last edited by Prongo: 06-07-2013 at 02:04 PM.
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06-07-2013, 02:12 PM
  #117
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I will say one thing, all this nonsense about these 18 year old's maxing out physically is extremely silly. They will only get better and bigger with age, till around 25-26 for hockey players. Normally men peak in muscle around the age of 30. So we can stop worrying about these players maxing out physically already, they still will grow and get better with proper training.

Source: The internet. I believe everything on it.

I still think, if we have to make comparisons, Pulock reminds me of Suter. He will not join the rush too much and relies on solid out let passes and that bomb of a shot to collect his points. He will occasionally join as the 4th player on a rush, but when I was watching he did most of his scoring from the back end. Solid puck mover too.

Also finally downloaded and printed my FC draft guide. They have us picking Zads of course at 11. 14 Pulock goes. I will be happy with whoever the Flyers take at the draft. It won't be till 2-3 years down the road to see if they on the right track or not. Then I can swear and curse at our FO if they make a bad selection.
My body ready.

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06-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Brian Campbell? Not true. Pulock is not that fast of a skater. If you want a better comparison of who Pulock skates like, look at Nick Hjalmarsson from Chicago. Not a blazer, but a solid, solid skater.
It was an allusion to Greg Campbell.

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06-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #119
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It was an allusion to Greg Campbell.
Sorry about that. As for Gregory Campbell, what a warrior. People can say what they want about his old man being an executive in the NHL, but he's been one of those bottom line playing guys who just gets the job done in the playoffs.

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06-07-2013, 03:35 PM
  #120
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Do any of the guys being discussed available at our pick have any shot at making NHL this year ?

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06-07-2013, 03:37 PM
  #121
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I really think we should go with Josh Morrissey at 11. (I know BPA) If Nuchushkin is there take him but the more I see Morrissey play- in videos- He looks like exactly what we need. We dont really need more size or hitting, we have plenty of that (he is a Great hitter too BTW) He is the same size and similar game to Erik Karlsson (huge comparison I know)
Here is A link to a scouting report http://jrhockeyrecruit.com/2012/12/j...outing-report/

His "Strengths" look like the hardest to teach and his "Needs to Improve" look like the easiest to fix. The video is sick too. If his skills transfer over to the NHL then he is Exactly what we need!
Totally feel the same.

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06-07-2013, 03:39 PM
  #122
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Do any of the guys being discussed available at our pick have any shot at making NHL this year ?
I would argue that Zad could step as he's physically big enough but everyone of these guys should be going back to juniors.

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06-07-2013, 03:40 PM
  #123
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Do any of the guys being discussed available at our pick have any shot at making NHL this year ?
Zadorov could step in and be a shutdown D man like Luke Schenn
Horvat and Hartman have a chance
Domi as well
maybe Ristolainen as well

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06-07-2013, 03:40 PM
  #124
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Assuming BDA is not a typo, I agree. Best defender available (unless Nichuskin is there at 11 or someone unexpected falls like Drouin for some reason).
No typo, but I would make an exception to BDA if somehow Drouin or Barkov fell to 11.

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06-07-2013, 03:42 PM
  #125
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I would argue that Zad could step as he's physically big enough but everyone of these guys should be going back to juniors.
Yep. He's definitely one that could use a year in the OHL to work on offense

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