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Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel

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Old
06-07-2013, 02:13 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
They didn't win the Cup because they traded Kessel.
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.

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06-07-2013, 02:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years, since trading Kessel for draft picks.

Would 2 Stanley Cups be considered succeeding?
Given the impact of the pieces received in return, it would be considered succeeding in spite of themselves.

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06-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.
That will happen when a goalie puts up all time historical best numbers whilst his team puts up historical worst winning percentages.

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06-07-2013, 02:20 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years, since trading Kessel for draft picks.

Would 2 Stanley Cups be considered succeeding?
But neither Stanley Cup run is due to the return they got. Seguin has done nothing in the playoffs. And Hamilton has only had a handful of games. Also Kessel was not Boston's best player at the time, yes he was one of thier top prospects, but not thier best player.

Boston is succeeding, but thier success is not becuase they traded Kessel.

The Philly trades were a similar situation. Carter and Richards were the best players on the Flyers, and they got a decent return, but it hasn;t helped the team at all. Trading Kessel in a similar fashion would de equalling detrimentla to Toronto

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06-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.
Boston was also up against the salary cap at the time. That doesn't make Kessel a "spare part"; it means they were up against the wall and needed to keep investments in more dire positions.

The 2011 Bruins being good at scoring didn't make Phil Kessel into a run of the mill player, and certainly doesn't make a much more developed Kessel one now with the Leafs

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06-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Actually, they likely did. If they decided to keep Kessel, they would have had to unload another contract to stay under the cap, and based on their situation at the time, it likely would have been David Krejci.
They had 2 guys they let walk at season's end they could have jettisoned instead.

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06-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #107
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It's a shame that we can't trade Feschuk.

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06-07-2013, 02:23 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.
But Kessel is not a spare part on the Leafs today. That's where the arguement falls apart.

Nonis' 'no player is untouchable' is a cliche. Yes he will listen to offers for Kessel, but he's not going to trade Kessel to get draft picks as a 'return on investment' He would need something that would improve his club, but guess what the other guys is going to want the same thing.

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06-07-2013, 02:24 PM
  #109
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I wrote this as a line-by-line response to the article:
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/7/w...de-phil-kessel

Would just post it all in here but it's really long. I don't get where Feschuk is going with this, other than reader bait. Kessel is possibly the least of Toronto's concerns.

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06-07-2013, 02:27 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.
Many? You seem to be the only one.

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06-07-2013, 02:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
The problem with this trade kessel stuff is that Feschuk, or anyone else for that matter, needs to show who kessel would be traded for and how it would make the leafs better than if they kept their best player.

thus far I have yet to see that.
That is what speculating on Kessel return as in acquiring a top pick and drafting a player like Nate Mackinnon as a example would establish.

We all know Kessel is not a salary dump here, but if traded a valuable bargaining chip to get a return that the Leafs would build upon.

In regards to the original Kessel trade the big difference being back then Kessel was only starting out, and now Leafs would be dealing from a position of strength by potentially trading a player that finished in the top 10 overall scoring 2 years running..

Since Kessel's value today >>> value 4 years ago now proven, Leafs should logically expect his potential return to be > original cost. That return should be significant and help the Leafs going forward should Nonis decide to go in a different direction.


Last edited by Mess: 06-07-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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06-07-2013, 02:29 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed, trading Kessel did absolutely nothing that prevented them from winning the Stanley Cup. He was a spare part, that with our without him didn't effect their success as the Cup win provides.

They did however get a return on investment that many feel in this thread the Leafs could not obtain should they do the same today.
They traded for a 2nd overall pick who is playing 3rd line wing and already will make more than Kessel next year.

At this point, it kinda sounds like you're just trolling.

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06-07-2013, 02:32 PM
  #113
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"The dominant post-season work of Jonathan Quick and Tuukka Rask is a reminder the Leafs, who got credible if spotty work from No. 1 James Reimer this season, should be on the lookout for an upgrade between the pipes. Mike Smith is a free agent worth considering. Roberto Luongo will again be discussed. Tim Thomas’s comeback has got to start somewhere."

This paragraph also shows how much of an idiot he is

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06-07-2013, 02:37 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
"The dominant post-season work of Jonathan Quick and Tuukka Rask is a reminder the Leafs, who got credible if spotty work from No. 1 James Reimer this season, should be on the lookout for an upgrade between the pipes. Mike Smith is a free agent worth considering. Roberto Luongo will again be discussed. Tim Thomas’s comeback has got to start somewhere."

This paragraph also shows how much of an idiot he is
Wow, that man is a absolute crackhead.

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06-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #115
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Kessel is good for between 35-40 goals during an 82 game season and how would the Leafs replace his goals if they trade him? Now based on what he's done since coming to Toronto I say the Leafs should get an even better return then what they gave Boston, however that still can't replace his goal scoring.

I realize that Feschuk is basically saying that since Kessel can be a UFA next summer the Leafs should trade him if he doesn't want to sign a contract extension. However I don't think Dave Nonis is at that point yet where a decision to trade Kessel needs to be made right now.

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06-07-2013, 02:39 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Gutchecktime View Post
They traded for a 2nd overall pick who is playing 3rd line wing and already will make more than Kessel next year.
Kessel costs the Leafs 2 X 1sts + 2nd to obtain.

True or False?

If Kessel were traded should the Leafs expect to get more or less than original cost, when trying to determine the expected return in trade today?

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06-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #117
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This only makes sense if Kessel intends to explore free agency. Then the title, "Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel" becomes less prone to a critique. I don't think anyone would deny that.

I was previously in the "If Kessel wants too much, trade him" camp. But after this post-season, and seeing his continued improvement throughout his time here, he is worthy of top dollar. I would now much rather get him signed long-term than trade him.

However, for discussion sake, if we assume that Kessel wants to explore free agency, and the logical option then becomes to trade him (i.e., you don't want to lose a prime asset for nothing), then I wonder what the market price will be for Kessel.

I think perhaps instead of tearing apart this article, we should be pondering that question. Maybe if Feschuk worked his article from this angle, it would be more convincing.

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06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That is what speculating on Kessel return as in acquiring a top pick and drafting a player like Nate Mackinnon as a example would establish.

We all know Kessel is not a salary dump here, but if traded a valuable bargaining chip to get a return that the Leafs would build upon.

In regards to the original Kessel trade the big difference being back then Kessel was only starting out, and now Leafs would be dealing from a position of strength by potentially trading a player that finished in the top 10 overall scoring 2 years running..

Since Kessel's value today >>> value 4 years ago now proven, Leafs should logically expect his potential return to be > original cost. That return should be significant and help the Leafs going forward should Nonis decide to go in a different direction.
If you traded Kessel today, What would you take as fair value? and do you think that the trade would bring the team closer to winning a cup?

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06-07-2013, 02:48 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
This only makes sense if Kessel intends to explore free agency. Then the title, "Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel" becomes less prone to a critique. I don't think anyone would deny that.

I was previously in the "If Kessel wants too much, trade him" camp. But after this post-season, and seeing his continued improvement throughout his time here, he is worthy of top dollar. I would now much rather get him signed long-term than trade him.

However, for discussion sake, if we assume that Kessel wants to explore free agency, and the logical option then becomes to trade him (i.e., you don't want to lose a prime asset for nothing), then I wonder what the market price will be for Kessel.

I think perhaps instead of tearing apart this article, we should be pondering that question. Maybe if Feschuk worked his article from this angle, it would be more convincing.
Well put, and its what is worthy of discussion.

Money, term and cap hit and future contribution are things that Nonis will be weighing towards keeping or what he could obtain in exchange in trade.

Kessel increased his trade value based on playoff performance by exercising the doubt that surrounded his previous struggles verses Boston. In fact he also likely solidified his future in Toronto and increased his $$ expectancy in turn.

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06-07-2013, 02:48 PM
  #120
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He's been a top 10 scorer for the past 2 years, over a ppg in the past 2 seasons. Had a breakout year (defensively) still putting up high scoring numbers but stepped up his defensive play. He's entering his prime...do not trade him now. Unless were getting something like Sidney Crosby in return, do not trade Kessel.

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06-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffler View Post
I wrote this as a line-by-line response to the article:
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/7/w...de-phil-kessel

Would just post it all in here but it's really long. I don't get where Feschuk is going with this, other than reader bait. Kessel is possibly the least of Toronto's concerns.
NIcely done. A great read and awesome job destorying Feschuk's article.

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06-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That is what speculating on Kessel return as in acquiring a top pick and drafting a player like Nate Mackinnon as a example would establish.

We all know Kessel is not a salary dump here, but if traded a valuable bargaining chip to get a return that the Leafs would build upon.

In regards to the original Kessel trade the big difference being back then Kessel was only starting out, and now Leafs would be dealing from a position of strength by potentially trading a player that finished in the top 10 overall scoring 2 years running..

Since Kessel's value today >>> value 4 years ago now proven, Leafs should logically expect his potential return to be > original cost. That return should be significant and help the Leafs going forward should Nonis decide to go in a different direction.
You still haven't shown how the leafs are better off.

If we assume that Mackinnnon will develop into one of the leagues top scorers one day, I don't see how trading a 25 year old who already IS one of the leagues top scorers helps us.

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06-07-2013, 02:53 PM
  #123
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On another note, Seguin is getting ripped apart in the main boards and everyone saying the Kessel trade was won by the leafs by a landslide.

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06-07-2013, 02:54 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DionPhaneuf3 View Post
He's been a top 10 scorer for the past 2 years, over a ppg in the past 2 seasons. Had a breakout year (defensively) still putting up high scoring numbers but stepped up his defensive play. He's entering his prime...do not trade him now. Unless were getting something like Sidney Crosby in return, do not trade Kessel.
Uh oh... que the "Crosby is soo much better then Kessel, Pit would never trade him lol idiot" responses


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06-07-2013, 02:58 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
You still haven't shown how the leafs are better off.

If we assume that Mackinnnon will develop into one of the leagues top scorers one day, I don't see how trading a 25 year old who already IS one of the leagues top scorers helps us.
MacKinnon could be that future #1 center that Leafs have been seeking his Mats left.

If MacKinnon became like John Taraves, could you not see the value to move offense from the wing to address the center ice position? Most top line NHL centers are obtained by teams drafting and developing them and seldom trading them.

Kessel has 1 year left on a contract that could see him become a UFA one year from now, and walk away leaving the Leafs with nothing.. So are you prepared for that potential outcome, or giving Kessel whatever he wants to stay the best possible outcome all things considered as well as trade?.

These are the very things that Nonis is presently dealing with when keep or trade and for how much are concerned.


Last edited by Mess: 06-07-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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