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Why buying out Samuelsson really makes sense

View Poll Results: What would you do with Samuelsson?
Keep Sammy and his 3.0 million caphit 2 3.23%
Buy Sammy out for 2.0 mil and sign Cleary for 1.5 mil 5 8.06%
Buy Sammy out for 2.0 mil and sign Miller for 900k 55 88.71%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #1
Henkka
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Why buying out Samuelsson really makes sense

I was thinking pretty stupid that Wings should keep Samuelsson, if we can't get anyone from free agency. Because the problem is, that the buyout period for caphit compliance buyouts ends before free agency period. So, we can't sign a expensive free agent and then buy Sammy out. He has to be bought out before. He can't be burned down with waivers anymore, because that leaves 2.1 million caphit from that 3 million contract. Everything over 900k from player send down with waivers does leave a caphit in the future.

But this was only my stupid thinking.

Now, pretty much it's the most probable scenario. Buy that 3 million contract out, that costs for 2 million, and sign Daniel Cleary or Drew Miller a lot cheaper to get a roster player for Sammy's spot. This really is the obvious choise I'm thinking now, of course we should do it this way.

Many people hate Cleary, but would you hate him for like 1.5 million salary if that gives us also a possibility to go after Horton/Clarkson -level guys?

Scenario 1.
- Keep Sammy - 3 million caphit

Scenario 2.
- Buyout Sammy for 2 million + re-sign Cleary for 1.5 million. That costs 3.5 million in total salaries, but only Cleary's 1.5 mil caphit is left to Wings cap.

Scenario 3.

- Buyout Sammy for 2 million + re-sign Miller for 900k. That costs 2.9 million, less than Sammy by himself. If we get a an expensive free agent and there's no roster room for Miller, we can burn him to waivers without any caphit.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.750m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,502,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,807,121


So this is the Miller-scenario. We have 14 forwards, Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith, Kindl and Miller signed in extensions. The roster is 24-men roster, over by one defenceman.

If you burn Lashoff and Miller through waivers, it doesn't make any caphit, but frees 1.8 million from the cap and you have 2+7+13 roster. Then we will have 1.8 + 4.8 million = total 6.8 million available for one UFA forward.

We could easily overpay for Nathan Horton.

And we will keep Colaiacovo as a depth defenceman. It's a luxury. This also work with Cleary, but then you should trade somebody else out like Eaves, there's no reason to send Cleary through waivers. But you would have those replacement forwards, if all UFAs pass Wings offers. You would have the incurance already in Cleary or Miller. If you get a better player, send them or somebody else out with a trade/waivers.

Nyquist - Zeta - UFA/Horton/Clarkson
Franzen - Dats - Brunner
Bertuzzi - Helm - Abdelkader
Tatar - Andersson - Cleary/Miller/Eaves
(Emmerton, Tootoo)

Kronwall - Ericsson
Quincey - Smith
DeKeyser - Kindl
(Colaiacovo)

Howard
Gustavsson

I would love this roster.


Last edited by Henkka: 06-07-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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Old
06-07-2013, 01:59 PM
  #2
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sure it make sense, but will it happen is the right question

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06-07-2013, 02:04 PM
  #3
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Scenario 4: Buyout Sammy, don't sign either of those guys, promote from within if the free agent market fails. That is the one I vote for. I like Miller, but don't care if Ferraro, or another guy is forced into that role, heck Emmerton on the wing might be just as effective.

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06-07-2013, 02:07 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Scenario 4: Buyout Sammy, don't sign either of those guys, promote from within if the free agent market fails.
+1

That would be my choice as well.

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06-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Scenario 4: Buyout Sammy, don't sign either of those guys, promote from within if the free agent market fails. That is the one I vote for. I like Miller, but don't care if Ferraro, or another guy is forced into that role, heck Emmerton on the wing might be just as effective.
Emmerton is barely half the player Miller is, and Ferraro may not even make it in the NHL, let alone become half the player Miller is, or half the player Emmerton is. Bad idea. Emmerton can't block Miller. You waive Emmerton and re-sign Miller if that's what it comes down to. Ferraro's really not even part of the equation at this time.

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06-07-2013, 02:27 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Emmerton is barely half the player Miller is, and Ferraro may not even make it in the NHL, let alone become half the player Miller is, or half the player Emmerton is. Bad idea. Emmerton can't block Miller. You waive Emmerton and re-sign Miller if that's what it comes down to. Ferraro's really not even part of the equation at this time.
Emmerton only blocks Miller because of Center vs. Winger.

If Helm gets healthy, Andersson>Emmerton.

But at this point that seems like a big if.

I don't know how good any of our "promote from within" guys would be at PK work at the NHL level. Miller is worth 900k for that and he chips in well too. Worse comes to worst, he sits as the 13th guy while someone else plays. It's not like he's costing a lot.

But buying out Sammy should be a frigging no brainer.

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06-07-2013, 02:27 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Emmerton is barely half the player Miller is, and Ferraro may not even make it in the NHL, let alone become half the player Miller is, or half the player Emmerton is. Bad idea. Emmerton can't block Miller. You waive Emmerton and re-sign Miller if that's what it comes down to. Ferraro's really not even part of the equation at this time.
Half the player Emmerton is? ha, Ferraro has already put up better numbers in the AHL then Emmerton ever did, I would rather have Ferraro on the Wings than Emmerton.

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06-07-2013, 02:46 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Emmerton is barely half the player Miller is, and Ferraro may not even make it in the NHL, let alone become half the player Miller is, or half the player Emmerton is. Bad idea. Emmerton can't block Miller. You waive Emmerton and re-sign Miller if that's what it comes down to. Ferraro's really not even part of the equation at this time.
Ferraro led our AHL team in goal scoring and the entire AHL in shorthanded points, he is faster than Miller, he plays harder on the puck than Miller, he actually finishes checks more often than Miller. Might be a wash as he is a rookie learning but, he also has center flexibility and protects teammates when something wrong happens.

Half the player Miller is, come on people the silver fox was claimed off waivers twice before getting here from Anaheim and then Tampa. He plays hard, but he is rail thin. Emmerton I think is better suited for the wing, but would also have center flexibility. Both are fazed out over time it is just Emmerton has a contract and Miller doesn't. I see no reason to bring Miller back unless you have traded Eaves or Tootoo. Fourth line players should come from within and they shouldn't block youngsters that are probably just as good.

Miller doesn't make anyone on our roster half the player as him. I know people like him but he isn't that good and he isn't irreplaceable. He also doesn't make Sheahan or Ferraro half the player if they wanted to go with them in that role which I am guessing they don't. I would wish Miller luck in the future but I don't care if he is back, it is a numbers game that should be his undoing. If he is back I will root for him but at some point he should be displaced on the lower lines by some of the more talented guys hunting that spot underneath him.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 06-07-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old
06-07-2013, 03:14 PM
  #9
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Miller is not expendable on what our roster SHOULD look like. Tatar is the only one we should be handing a roster spot on a silver platter from the minors.

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06-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #10
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So no love for cheap Cleary? What if he signs with 900k if Holland is so badass to lowball his loyalty to Wings?

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06-07-2013, 03:25 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So no love for cheap Cleary? What if he signs with 900k if Holland is so badass to lowball his loyalty to Wings?
I'd be fine with it knowing he was the 14th-15th forward and signed for the league minimum. I guess. I'd rather he just retire and take a job in the organization.

Buyout Sammy.

Trade Mule, Mrazek, Quincey/CC, 2 1st's and a top prospects not named Jarnkrok for Malkin.

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06-07-2013, 03:30 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So no love for cheap Cleary? What if he signs with 900k if Holland is so badass to lowball his loyalty to Wings?
Doubt he'd sign for that.

And does Cleary even PK anymore? It's been mostly Datsyuk taking faceoffs, Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, Andersson.

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06-07-2013, 03:32 PM
  #13
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Doubt he'd sign for that.

And does Cleary even PK anymore? It's been mostly Datsyuk taking faceoffs, Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, Andersson.
No, I think Franzen basically took his spot late in the season.

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06-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #14
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Not happening. You do realize Ken Holland is the GM of the Detroit Red Wings, right?

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06-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I was thinking pretty stupid that Wings should keep Samuelsson, if we can't get anyone from free agency. Because the problem is, that the buyout period for caphit compliance buyouts ends before free agency period. So, we can't sign a expensive free agent and then buy Sammy out. He has to be bought out before. He can't be burned down with waivers anymore, because that leaves 2.1 million caphit from that 3 million contract. Everything over 900k from player send down with waivers does leave a caphit in the future.

But this was only my stupid thinking.

Now, pretty much it's the most probable scenario. Buy that 3 million contract out, that costs for 2 million, and sign Daniel Cleary or Drew Miller a lot cheaper to get a roster player for Sammy's spot. This really is the obvious choise I'm thinking now, of course we should do it this way.

Many people hate Cleary, but would you hate him for like 1.5 million salary if that gives us also a possibility to go after Horton/Clarkson -level guys?

Scenario 1.
- Keep Sammy - 3 million caphit

Scenario 2.
- Buyout Sammy for 2 million + re-sign Cleary for 1.5 million. That costs 3.5 million in total salaries, but only Cleary's 1.5 mil caphit is left to Wings cap.

Scenario 3.

- Buyout Sammy for 2 million + re-sign Miller for 900k. That costs 2.9 million, less than Sammy by himself. If we get a an expensive free agent and there's no roster room for Miller, we can burn him to waivers without any caphit.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.750m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,502,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,807,121


So this is the Miller-scenario. We have 14 forwards, Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith, Kindl and Miller signed in extensions. The roster is 24-men roster, over by one defenceman.

If you burn Lashoff and Miller through waivers, it doesn't make any caphit, but frees 1.8 million from the cap and you have 2+7+13 roster. Then we will have 1.8 + 4.8 million = total 6.8 million available for one UFA forward.

We could easily overpay for Nathan Horton.

And we will keep Colaiacovo as a depth defenceman. It's a luxury. This also work with Cleary, but then you should trade somebody else out like Eaves, there's no reason to send Cleary through waivers. But you would have those replacement forwards, if all UFAs pass Wings offers. You would have the incurance already in Cleary or Miller. If you get a better player, send them or somebody else out with a trade/waivers.

Nyquist - Zeta - UFA/Horton/Clarkson
Franzen - Dats - Brunner
Bertuzzi - Helm - Abdelkader
Tatar - Andersson - Cleary/Miller/Eaves
(Emmerton, Tootoo)

Kronwall - Ericsson
Quincey - Smith
DeKeyser - Kindl
(Colaiacovo)

Howard
Gustavsson

I would love this roster.
You realize that Clarkson and Filppula are basically the same person and If Holland Is'nt going to resign Filppula he surely Is'nt going to sign Clarkson since there both looking for the exact same money.

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06-07-2013, 05:00 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So no love for cheap Cleary? What if he signs with 900k if Holland is so badass to lowball his loyalty to Wings?
Cheap Cleary is a good deal. He busts his ass and is a playoff warrior. His current contract is overpayment but I would love him for 900K. 1.5 would be OK.

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06-07-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
I'd be fine with it knowing he was the 14th-15th forward and signed for the league minimum. I guess. I'd rather he just retire and take a job in the organization.

Buyout Sammy.

Trade Mule, Mrazek, Quincey/CC, 2 1st's and a top prospects not named Jarnkrok for Malkin.
You don't get to pick which prospects you keep if a guy like Malkin is the target.

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06-07-2013, 05:13 PM
  #18
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No to Cleary and yes, buy out Sammy. Re-sign Miller. He's great on the PK and a good 4th liner.

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06-07-2013, 05:26 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
I'd be fine with it knowing he was the 14th-15th forward and signed for the league minimum. I guess. I'd rather he just retire and take a job in the organization.

Buyout Sammy.

Trade Mule, Mrazek, Quincey/CC, 2 1st's and a top prospects not named Jarnkrok for Malkin.
In the first place if it's true that Pittsburgh is looking to unload on Malkin, It would be because he's only planning on playing one more year then bolting for the KHL In what perfect world would Ken Holland give up Franzen, Mrazek and Quincey first off there is no way this package even comes close to getting you Malkin. In reality Detroit most likely does'nt have the pieces to land a player like Malkin talents so he would most likely never come to Motown. Other then maybe Mrazek i cant see pittsburgh wanting any of these players I dont even think that Pittsburgh will want Mule.

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06-07-2013, 09:47 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So no love for cheap Cleary? What if he signs with 900k if Holland is so badass to lowball his loyalty to Wings?
It seemed impossible all season, but after the playoffs I wouldn't mind terribly if the Wings brought Cleary back dirt cheap, left him in the press box all season, and then trotted him out there to bother people in the playoffs. Or they could just dump him mid-season if the rest of the roster is looking good. No risk if they bring him back cheap and on a 1 year deal.

No matter what they do with Cleary, they should obviously buy out Sammy. He's useless.

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06-07-2013, 10:10 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
In the first place if it's true that Pittsburgh is looking to unload on Malkin, It would be because he's only planning on playing one more year then bolting for the KHL In what perfect world would Ken Holland give up Franzen, Mrazek and Quincey first off there is no way this package even comes close to getting you Malkin. In reality Detroit most likely does'nt have the pieces to land a player like Malkin talents so he would most likely never come to Motown. Other then maybe Mrazek i cant see pittsburgh wanting any of these players I dont even think that Pittsburgh will want Mule.
I understand what you're saying, just throwing out a proposal. Other teams could offer more high end talent. But I sometimes disagree when people say no one wants Mule. We may have our hatred for him due to his inconsistent play. But he's still a 25-30 goal scorer.

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06-08-2013, 07:06 AM
  #22
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Under $1M Cleary isn't happening.

The dude should be on the 4th line, but Babcock won't play him there - that's the primary reason people don't want him back. If we knew Cleary would be getting 4th line minutes, alot more people would want to resign him.

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06-08-2013, 08:29 AM
  #23
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Under $1M Cleary isn't happening.

The dude should be on the 4th line, but Babcock won't play him there - that's the primary reason people don't want him back. If we knew Cleary would be getting 4th line minutes, alot more people would want to resign him.
Even some idiot coach like Babcock understands that Cleary is getting old. And will find and sell a reduced role for an older player.

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06-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #24
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Why it makes sense.

-He's old
-He's not very good anymore
-He can't stay healthy
-We have good young players.

Pretty simple one.

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06-08-2013, 10:05 AM
  #25
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Emmerton only blocks Miller because of Center vs. Winger.

If Helm gets healthy, Andersson>Emmerton.

But at this point that seems like a big if.

I don't know how good any of our "promote from within" guys would be at PK work at the NHL level. Miller is worth 900k for that and he chips in well too. Worse comes to worst, he sits as the 13th guy while someone else plays. It's not like he's costing a lot.

But buying out Sammy should be a frigging no brainer.
I think Andersson > Emmerton no matter what Helm's health is. But I'm banking on Helm being healthy next season, in which case Emmerton's ability to play center becomes far less relevant. Emmerton's in a position where he doesn't really have any trade value, so the Wings will likely hang onto him if Helm starts the season on the IR, and just waive him whenever Helm does get back.

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