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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
06-06-2013, 02:48 PM
  #551
Byrddog
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Do you guys think it may almost be better to draft nichushkin or drouin rather than Mack or barks?!
I mean if trotz is just going to smash them for defense abilities, that would really hurt their offensive development like we have seen before with other prospects.

Although barks and Mack do have good two way games already to go with being offensive powerhouses. Hmmmm
Unless Trotz changes his system there is sure merit to this line of thinking. This was whole premise my looking at Lindholm. He would fit into Trotz system he is not as dynamic scoiring as Bark or Mac would be. There is little to indicate Trotz will be replaced before the draft so it must be a consideration for DP.

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06-06-2013, 02:53 PM
  #552
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I personally feel the fact that Mack and Barkov are both already good two way player would work in their favor for development in the Trotz system. I really don't see it hurting them offensively at all.

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06-06-2013, 02:55 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
I personally feel the fact that Mack and Barkov are both already good two way player would work in their favor for development in the Trotz system. I really don't see it hurting them offensively at all.
This is my line of thinking too.

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06-06-2013, 03:02 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Unless Trotz changes his system there is sure merit to this line of thinking. This was whole premise my looking at Lindholm. He would fit into Trotz system he is not as dynamic scoiring as Bark or Mac would be. There is little to indicate Trotz will be replaced before the draft so it must be a consideration for DP.
That actually doesn't make much sense when Barkov is heralded for being great at both ends. Also as for dynamic scoring Lindholm is the flashier of the two.

Barkov is considered a very safe pick, the one guy in the top group that you always see labeled with "high hockey IQ". The "Safe Pick" thing isn't a knock on him either as it sometimes is against other players who have carried that tag around. He has most of the upside that the others have, but really doesn't have as much potential downside.

For those reasons the Preds really HAVE to take Barkov. This is a team who can't afford to gamble on a pick this high.

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06-06-2013, 03:12 PM
  #555
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Barkov may well be the pick. But just remember there is question on his skating ability. Now many play that down but in Trotz system it will be important getting back on D. And if Barkov is the one taken there will be much gnashing of teeth and turmoil among the fanbase when Barks is benched or sent to the Admirals. And another point not considered here that will influence his skating is his age at 17 6'2 and 215 he is a monster but he may well grow another couple inches and gain 20 to 30 pounds. His speed or skating will not improve as he fills out. No doubt he would be able to grind with the best of them but the system now used here hes gonna take heat.

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06-06-2013, 04:03 PM
  #556
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I hear barkov skating knocks are over exaggerated

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06-06-2013, 04:29 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I hear barkov skating knocks are over exaggerated
Same here.

Big bodied players seem to get labeled as poor skaters, which is not always accurate. Barkov doesn't need to take as many strides to reach top speed because of his long legs, which can be deceiving.

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06-06-2013, 05:57 PM
  #558
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Funny, Budish is a big kid that can move so I'm not worried about Barkov's skating ability. Never hurt Mario or Jagr either.

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06-06-2013, 08:58 PM
  #559
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Yep.. Jagr still doing it at 45.

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06-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #560
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Interesting:

Quote:
Bob McKenzie ✔ @TSNBobMcKenzie

Some scouts have Drouin ahead of MacKinnon, and vice vera obviously, and I know at least one who has Aleksander Barkov ahead of both of them
From:

http://thehockeywriters.com/aleksand...spect-profile/

Really good writeup on Barkov.

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06-07-2013, 01:05 PM
  #561
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That one team is the Preds no doubt. Perfect two way mold the Preds desire. Add size and skill... Going to be hard to chose another player.

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06-07-2013, 03:46 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
I personally feel the fact that Mack and Barkov are both already good two way player would work in their favor for development in the Trotz system. I really don't see it hurting them offensively at all.
Trotz could ruin an 20 year old Wayne Gretzky's offense. MacKinnon reminds me too much of David Legwand.

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06-07-2013, 04:07 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Trotz could ruin an 20 year old Wayne Gretzky's offense. MacKinnon reminds me too much of David Legwand.
Well in my humblest opinion you are dead wrong on both counts. I'd be willing to lay a significant wager on macK's initial 3 year production compared to leggy.

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06-07-2013, 04:28 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Trotz could ruin an 20 year old Wayne Gretzky's offense. MacKinnon reminds me too much of David Legwand.
I could not disagree with you more, on either count.

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06-07-2013, 05:17 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Well in my humblest opinion you are dead wrong on both counts. I'd be willing to lay a significant wager on macK's initial 3 year production compared to leggy.
FYI: Leggy had 99 points in his first three seasons. If MacKinnion goes to anyone but the Preds he has a good chance to beat that. With the Preds he'll be in the doghouse like Wilson for his first 3 seasons. Then he'll settle into being a 30-40 point player under Trotz.

Legwand had 105 and 80 points in his 2 seasons in the OHL. MacKinnon has never had an 80 point season. He also plays with Drouin to boost his profile. Leggy had Harold Druken as his go to guy. People forget what a Offensive talent he was before Trotz ruined him.
Don't get me wrong I love Legwand more than most on here he is a true Pred for life and has been more loyal to the city and team than others (Hartnell, Hamhuis, $uter)


Last edited by Gnashville: 06-07-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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06-07-2013, 06:19 PM
  #566
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If Mac or Barkov end up in the doghouse then someone needs to go. Everyone can't end up in the doghouse, especially when you draft someone that high. Whoever we get needs to be able to play their game. Why draft someone who has talent to mold them into a different style player? I get sick and tired of these guys coming in and having to be fit into a system as opposed to a system that is flexible enough to have guys come in and play their game while playing the team game at the same time. Trotz is so hell bent on getting guys to play his way that he forgets that we drafted guys with certain skill sets and they need the freedom to showcase those talents. Ellis is a dynamic offensive defenseman yet he is stifled in this system. Wilson is a gifted offensive player yet it took him almost 5 years to finally have some success. That is way too long to have guys develop. If we wait that long with Forsberg and whoever we get at 4, Rinne will be on the other side of 35 and that's just not acceptable.

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06-07-2013, 06:20 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
FYI: Leggy had 99 points in his first three seasons. If MacKinnion goes to anyone but the Preds he has a good chance to beat that. With the Preds he'll be in the doghouse like Wilson for his first 3 seasons. Then he'll settle into being a 30-40 point player under Trotz.

Legwand had 105 and 80 points in his 2 seasons in the OHL. MacKinnon has never had an 80 point season. He also plays with Drouin to boost his profile. Leggy had Harold Druken as his go to guy. People forget what a Offensive talent he was before Trotz ruined him.
Don't get me wrong I love Legwand more than most on here he is a true Pred for life and has been more loyal to the city and team than others (Hartnell, Hamhuis, $uter)
Legwand never would have survived on his offensive ability alone. Trotz molding him into a two-way player with a strong defensive game probably saved Legwand's career.

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06-07-2013, 07:10 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If Mac or Barkov end up in the doghouse then someone needs to go. Everyone can't end up in the doghouse, especially when you draft someone that high. Whoever we get needs to be able to play their game. Why draft someone who has talent to mold them into a different style player? I get sick and tired of these guys coming in and having to be fit into a system as opposed to a system that is flexible enough to have guys come in and play their game while playing the team game at the same time. Trotz is so hell bent on getting guys to play his way that he forgets that we drafted guys with certain skill sets and they need the freedom to showcase those talents. Ellis is a dynamic offensive defenseman yet he is stifled in this system. Wilson is a gifted offensive player yet it took him almost 5 years to finally have some success. That is way too long to have guys develop. If we wait that long with Forsberg and whoever we get at 4, Rinne will be on the other side of 35 and that's just not acceptable.
Don't look at it as the injustice of putting someone in the doghouse, it's what you do once you're in the doghouse that counts. You can play your way out of the doghouse. Take Lady for example. She pouted at first, but when the time came, she still contributed to the cause.

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06-07-2013, 07:27 PM
  #569
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I've been keeping tabs on this thread for awhile but thought it was time to chime in.

Do you guys honestly believe that MacKinnon or Barkov will not reach their offensive potential because Trotz's system will ruin him? Are you serious? Sounds like the myth we have in Buffalo that Ruff ruined players when the reality was we never had that star forward to build around. Which highly offensive forward prospect has Trotz ruined?

Barkov is an easy choice at #4

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06-07-2013, 07:34 PM
  #570
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Trotz may adjust his system somewhat but if you expect he will allow FF and whoever is drafted to step outside his system your going to be disappointed.

Do not expect FF or player selected 4th to average more than 7 to 9 minutes per game as well.

Again if ones expectations are more than this your going to be disappointed.

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06-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I've been keeping tabs on this thread for awhile but thought it was time to chime in.

Do you guys honestly believe that MacKinnon or Barkov will not reach their offensive potential because Trotz's system will ruin him? Are you serious? Sounds like the myth we have in Buffalo that Ruff ruined players when the reality was we never had that star forward to build around. Which highly offensive forward prospect has Trotz ruined?

Barkov is an easy choice at #4
There is quite a chasm in our fanbase. About half our fans want Trotz and Poile fired. The other half worship them. It's a bizarre mix.

Anyways, I agree. Forsberg and Barkov/Mac will be Trotz last test. If they (along with Wilson) can't produce, he kills offensive talent.

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06-07-2013, 07:57 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I've been keeping tabs on this thread for awhile but thought it was time to chime in.

Do you guys honestly believe that MacKinnon or Barkov will not reach their offensive potential because Trotz's system will ruin him? Are you serious? Sounds like the myth we have in Buffalo that Ruff ruined players when the reality was we never had that star forward to build around. Which highly offensive forward prospect has Trotz ruined?

Barkov is an easy choice at #4
We have the exact opposite problem than Buffalo Ruff was great offensively but not so much defensively. The biggest problem Buffalo has is Miller since the Olympics he has not been the same.

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06-07-2013, 08:01 PM
  #573
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Legwand never would have survived on his offensive ability alone. Trotz molding him into a two-way player with a strong defensive game probably saved Legwand's career.
Totally disagree. Legwand was a machine offensively. Drafted second overall. Sure trotz helped him, but he may have thrived elsewhere. Legwand is so speedy and a great skater.

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06-07-2013, 08:17 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I've been keeping tabs on this thread for awhile but thought it was time to chime in.

Do you guys honestly believe that MacKinnon or Barkov will not reach their offensive potential because Trotz's system will ruin him? Are you serious? Sounds like the myth we have in Buffalo that Ruff ruined players when the reality was we never had that star forward to build around. Which highly offensive forward prospect has Trotz ruined?

Barkov is an easy choice at #4
Legwand, Smith, Wilson currently. Players who have thrived elsewhere Peverley, Hartnell, Radulov, mostly just young guys. Sully and Kayria were vets and he didn't ride them to play defense. Trotz's doghouse is a bastion of garbage minutes and wasted talents.

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06-07-2013, 08:18 PM
  #575
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Totally disagree. Legwand was a machine offensively. Drafted second overall. Sure trotz helped him, but he may have thrived elsewhere. Legwand is so speedy and a great skater.
2nd overall in a pretty subpar draft as far as offensive talent goes. He has always lacked any sort of killer instinct on the offensive end, and is a subpar shooter. One could argue that the instinct got coached out of him, but that tends to be a quality that scorers either just have, or they don't, it's not something easily ingrained into a player. I don't believe he ever would have taken that next step offensively, regardless of where he was developed.

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