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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
06-07-2013, 10:01 PM
  #401
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Why do people quote an entire post that's that massive ? Great post and all, but why quote it all ? I think my scroll button is broken.

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06-07-2013, 10:02 PM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My FULL ND list:

Now, it’s mostly about the fact that I don’t want them based on where they are suppose to go.

• He won’t there….but there’s just no way I’d move up for a guy like Nikita Zadorov. Might be around the first d-men that is drafted but mark my words, there will be much better d-men than him that goes after. No need to move up to get something close much later.
• No to Zack Fucale; No Quebec born goaltending unless you go with a underrated guy. But no need for the pressure to see a Fucale coming in Montreal. Don,t want him even if he’s coming from my place in Rosemere. We’ll see you elsewhere Zach.
Kerby Rychel: Why am I not convince he’d translate well in the bigs? Skating issue? Decision making….speed he needs to think the game through…I won’t panic if we draft him….I’m just not convince enough there won’t be better players. Honestly….I wouldn’t pick him with our first pick…. An excellent garbage man but not sure I want to spend our first pick for him.
Nick Sorensen, okay…of course…if he falls in the 7th round, I’ll pick him. But we all know that he won’t. I don’t want him in the 2nd. And probably won’t want him in the 3rd….so we don’t have a 4th and 5th. But at worst, he goes in the 3rd. Maybe even in the 2nd. Just not interested.
Justin Bailey. Wasn’t impressed every game I saw him play. Though he was really waiting for things to happen. Good complementary player, but I would be wanting more for at least our first 3 picks…maybe even 4 picks. Could still pay off though, so like all my others ND….those are soft ones.
Anthony Duclair: My “bet” would be that he will see his ceiling real soon. Never was a Duclair fan though….a whole lot about the small legs going really really fast…but that’s about it for me.
Ryan Pulock, Jason Dickinson, Nic Petan, Steven Santini…Just before WTK bashes me…I want to say that this is just because, for me, it would be incredibly unsexy for our 1st pick. Doesn’t mean it won’t pay off later, I agree. And after the 1st pick, I’m with that for anybody on that list.
Rinat Valiyev….No need for another Russian scenario especially with what he did to his USHL team…
Nicolas Brouillard….way too many things ahead physically to ever be considered as a potential NHL’er. Note though that I once thought the same for Stéphane Robidas and Jared Spurgeon….That’s how great I am….
Daniel Nikandrov….Just don’t think he has what it takes to move up in the next stages. Mind you…if he’s the in the bottom rounds….you do have to consider him. But type of player that you wonder if he’ll be able to put it together.
J.C. Lipon…clearly not the same type of case than Pearson was last year. At least as far as I’m concerned. It’s more, as overager, the analysis you have as far as where’s the ceiling for those players and have they reached it yet. Tough analysis especially when you don’t have the luxury to see them a lot live….But since we have to have opinions….I’d say that I’m not too enclined to select him.
Avery Peterson….seen great reports of him…and then saw him and just don’t see what others are seeing. Bad skating technique, just not fast in his decisions, in his skating and so on. Such a long long way from the NHL….can’t wait too long…life is short.

Mind you, this year, nobody fits in the category of I DON’T WANT HIM AT ALL, I’LL CRY IF WE PICK HIM….so that’s a SOFT Full ND list…

Sorry guys…awful long post, as it’s always the case…every freakin year. And for some who don't like to not see their favorite prospect....I love them all this year. Wouldn't like to be in Timmins shoes....to say the least.
Disagree on Bailey but agree on Rychel. I wasn't impressed at all and I will be mad if that's our 1st pick.

GJ on the list though! That must have taken a long time to type and even longer time to research.

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06-07-2013, 10:07 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Disagree on Bailey but agree on Rychel. I wasn't impressed at all and I will be mad if that's our 1st pick.

GJ on the list though! That must have taken a long time to type and even longer time to research.
Thanks. Research lasts a year and a half actually. As far as Bailey is concerned, I'm solely going with what I saw on TV and webcasts this year. I'd tell you he really wasn't good. Almost to a spectator degree, didn't materialize anything, didn't provoke anything.

Just going with what I saw. Again, should I repeat that I also, in his draft year, was never too impressed with a guy like Charles Hudon. That should mean that my point of views are obviously often wrong. Point is that I guess I happened to mostly see the bad games....but this is why seeing guys live becomes more important. Live you see more important things that you don't see on TV.

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06-07-2013, 10:21 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
love it! But when did TT say this?
Last week at the combine.

http://www.rds.ca/vid%C3%A9os/il-fau...nceux-1.626629

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey...7_accueil_POS1

And Whitesnake just owned the thread, that will take some time to read.

Buchnevich is 2013 for Slepyshev, eh?

Also surprised at no mention of Diaby.


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06-07-2013, 11:14 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Disagree on Bailey but agree on Rychel. I wasn't impressed at all and I will be mad if that's our 1st pick.
GJ on the list though! That must have taken a long time to type and even longer time to research.
I can't understand for the life of me why people, even those who acknowledge his overt limitations, are touting this player. Drafting Rychel in this very deep and rich draft is like ordering a cheese and ham sandwich at a five star restaurant. There are 50, or more, players I would draft before Rychel. I cannot believe that Timmins, who expressed his interest in drafting for skill, would consider this player with any of our first 4 picks.

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06-07-2013, 11:19 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
I can't understand for the life of me why people, even those who acknowledge his overt limitations, are touting this player. Drafting Rychel in this very deep and rich draft is like ordering a cheese and ham sandwich at a five star restaurant. There are 50, or more, players I would draft before Rychel. I cannot believe that Timmins, who expressed his interest in drafting for skill, would consider this player with any of our first 4 picks.
Have you seen Rychel play? He's got a ton of skill. Great shot, great vision/offensive IQ, great passer...

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06-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Have you seen Rychel play? He's got a ton of skill. Great shot, great vision/offensive IQ, great passer...
Personnally live? Nope. But a few times and I didn't see all that. I saw that he was able to find the openings to score his goals close by. Which is a great trait by the way, with the Habs, we don't have a lot of guys like that. Good passing..yes....not always. Good IQ...wouldn't say great though. Could totally improve all of that and in the end might be a steal. Personnally, for me, there will be other players I like in the 1st. Anyway, he'Ll probably be gone.

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06-07-2013, 11:45 PM
  #408
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Buchnevich is 2013 for Slepyshev, eh?

Also surprised at no mention of Diaby.
Yep...

Diaby....knew I forgot somebody. Well I'll add him in....my ND list. Probably the player who I went so much from hot and cold all year long. Came to the conclusion that I'm not in love with his hockey sense. So I'm going to say ND for the first 2 rounds. If he's still there...consider him in the 3rd. But, hey, anything goes as far as he's concerned. If we pick him earlier, I'll remember the great moments I saw from him. If we don't...I'll remember the bad ones...

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06-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #409
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A nice write up on Jackson Houck http://kuklaskorner.com/patch/commen...-jackson-houck
Future Considerations also had nice things to say about him. He sounds like the exact kind of player the Habs could use for 3rd or 4th line. The Giants were terrible this year and he was their leading scorer so maybe they could get lucky and he turns into a 2nd liner?
1) Anyone seen him live?
2) What do you guys think about taking him in 3rd round?

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06-08-2013, 12:20 AM
  #410
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There is one player I have come up with an obsession over his play to a point that if we miss him I would consider our draft a failure on my part (I know that we will see with hindsight) and that player is Steven Santini.

So let's call my next post the ''Santini Case'':

1st- assessment of our current defensive core at RD.

We clearly have our puck moving, skilled, and norris candidate set up for another decade(hopefully) in PK Subban.

Raphael Diaz (Another puck moving defenseman but less skilled and physical than subban. Should stick another year.)

Yannick Weber (On the way out or soon to be. He is at this point considered a PP specialist as he has an hard time competing with NHL players defensively.)

(big gap)

Morgan Ellis, Darren Dietz and Dalton Thrower (I put them all together but altough all of them have potential to become solid two way defender they are still a couple years away and their play in the AHL in the next 2 years should give us a better picture.)

Magnus Nygren (Pure offensive defenseman, PP Specialist, we'll see how he play in the AHL next year)

Other: Pateryn , Didier, Sullivan (all of them are longshot for the NHL)

2nd - Steven Santini scouting report and potential.

When I watched him play(u 18) I saw a dominant defenseman. Amazing mobility on every sense of the term: (Backward, forward, laterally, powerfull stride, can stop and go on a dime.)

Defensive acument, always have stick in place to cover pass lane, can punish you if you try to beat him outside, very strong and look bigger than his actual size (6'1.5). He is basically the ultimate shut down defenseman. He is so good that I would even put the Ryan Suter tag on him with the way he handled things in his zone.

Offensive side argument: I've read report that he is lacking offensive sense which is pretty accurate as far as offensive defenseman running a PP. But is transition game is excellent, always moving the puck, never have his foot in stand still, can cover ground on his own and he delivers pin-point pass on the tape. I don't see it become a weakness as far as his NHL potential go : (see Ryan McDonagh).

What it means for us: With our current RD prospects and PK Subban around we should have the offensive defenseman side pretty much cleared for a while which is an amazing thing to do. But we are clearly lacking another top 4 minute defenseman that can shut-down opposition and make our team better and harder to play at 5 on 5. If we get Santini (which is set to become a top defenseman at a good developping program in Boston College next year) we would definately set our franchise for a very long time.

Final taste:
Santini play reminds me Jacob Trouba but without the offensive numbers. We can consider ourself ''lucky'' that most team are looking for puck moving defenseman. That would probably make him available with one of our pick (ideally 2nd round pick 34th and 36th) but I wouldn't be dissapointed if we even selected him with our 1st round pick (25th).

(If somehow we manage to select Steven Santini with any of our picks, you will see me jumping around and drinking a beer as I would be so happy. Make it happen TT )


Last edited by Jeffrey: 06-08-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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06-08-2013, 12:21 AM
  #411
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Not big on Mirco Mueller Whitesnake or you just don't expect him to drop?

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06-08-2013, 01:58 AM
  #412
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06-08-2013, 02:32 AM
  #413
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Whitesnake... just killing it.

Thanks, man.

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06-08-2013, 04:39 AM
  #414
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So, there is really no valid argument against drafting Fucale. (And I won't be surprised if we do.)

You really can't build an argument using the absolutely vague "hometown pressure". Pressure is handled differently by every player. You surely all liked the way Roy handled it(93 anyone?).
  • Fact is, nobody know how Fucale will handle it in the bigs. Yes Thibault couldn't, yes Theodore couldn't, Price can't seem to, Huet... my point: hometown or not, goaltenders who can handle it in the NHL, in any city, makes it. Pittsburgh doesn't seem to be much better for Fleury...or Lalime in Ottawa or etc. etc.
  • You are evaluating this situation from the viewpoint of our last 10-15 years. Who knows how our past goaltenders would have performed without the need to be excellent night-in night-out because of often very bad defensive(and overall) talent. Good goaltenders are often made by good teams. Lets just say: it's been a very long time since this team could be evaluated as Stanley cup caliber talent-wise. If this changes they way you draft and why, you will keep losing, simple as that.
  • Nobody really can deny that goaltenders is one of our worse position in talent depth (maybe with RW). (Btw I'm taking Burakowsky before Fucale, but they are both in my top 20 selection list.)

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06-08-2013, 04:51 AM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
So, there is really no valid argument against drafting Fucale. (And I won't be surprised if we do.)

You really can't build an argument using the absolutely vague "hometown pressure". Pressure is handled differently by every player. You surely all liked the way Roy handled it(93 anyone?).
  • Fact is, nobody know how Fucale will handle it in the bigs. Yes Thibault couldn't, yes Theodore couldn't, Price can't seem to, Huet... my point: hometown or not, goaltenders who can handle it in the NHL, in any city, makes it. Pittsburgh doesn't seem to be much better for Fleury...or Lalime in Ottawa or etc. etc.
  • You are evaluating this situation from the viewpoint of our last 10-15 years. Who knows how our past goaltenders would have performed without the need to be excellent night-in night-out because of often very bad defensive(and overall) talent. Good goaltenders are often made by good teams. Lets just say: it's been a very long time since this team could be evaluated as Stanley cup caliber talent-wise. If this changes they way you draft and why, you will keep losing, simple as that.
  • Nobody really can deny that goaltenders is one of our worse position in talent depth (maybe with RW). (Btw I'm taking Burakowsky before Fucale, but they are both in my top 20 selection list.)
Primarily agree, there's a lot of "pressure" mumbo jumbo and cliches that are constantly thrown around here that are used as excuses when players under perform. I think it's bogus. That being said, I have a lot of faith in Price and think he just needs some more time to develop his game. Hopefully the new coach helps that.

However, I'm taking De La Rose before Burakowsky as I don't think Burakowsky's capable of putting it all together in the NHL to act as an offensive forward. I think he's a long-shot prospect and I have a lot more faith in De La Rose to not only be a top-6 player but an NHL player. Burakowsky's play isn't pretty, it just looks that way.


Last edited by Draft: 06-08-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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06-08-2013, 05:25 AM
  #416
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What about Desrosiers? Is he better than Fucale?

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06-08-2013, 06:04 AM
  #417
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Whitesnake... just killing it.

Thanks, man.
Agreed. Great job. Enjoyable read.

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06-08-2013, 06:26 AM
  #418
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Yea, I'm down to move 55 and 25 to get into the 15-18 range to nab a Wennberg, Horvat, or Lazar, or even Mantha who I really like.

I love those 2 high seconds Gauthier got us, but I don't see anyone I really like being there at 55.
As an Islanders fan who picks 15th, if I traded down I would ask for the 25th and 34th(but would settle for the 36th). 55 is to much a crapshoot no matter how good the depth is supposed to be

As somebody else pointed out 25th and 55th moves you up 4-5 spots(and since San Jose has a boatload of 2nd rounders themselves I don't see it getting you 20th)

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06-08-2013, 06:26 AM
  #419
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Says he's 6'5", though. That's pretty small, these days. Moar bigger.

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06-08-2013, 06:34 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Is there any reason so many Q prospects are playing midget hockey an extra year?

Mantha, Poirier, and Marc-Olivier Roy are all late birthdays, but all have only played two years in the Q (well, Mantha played 2 games at 16, and Roy played 3). And then Dauphin and Gauthier are both rookies at 17.

It really screws up expectations. Generally there's a pretty standard development curve: you start at 16 and adapt to the league. Then at 17, you are more comfortable and can play your game from the start. At 18, you're in your third go round of the league, and you take that next step.

Knowing this, it's something to keep in mind when comparing late birthdays with younger players in their draft class: sure they're better right now, but they're supposed to be because they're older and often more physically mature, and, more importantly, they have that extra year of development in their CHL league.

With Mantha, Poirier, and Roy, they're late birthdays, but they haven't benefited from a third development year in the league, so they aren't the prototypical late birthday players. Sure, they benefited from an extra year of midget hockey, so were more mature as rookies than the players who entered the league at 16, but they don't have that extra development year in the CHL. They're late birthdays without really being late birthdays. At the same time, though, they've had more time to fill out and only really have one more year of junior development before having to join the pros.

Similarly, Dauphin and Gauthier had to adapt to the league this year, so they aren't the prototypical 17 year old prospects.

It makes it tougher to compare them to their peers who have followed more traditional paths.
Mantha was a late bloomer, he was playing in Midget Espoir at 15, which is a rank below Midget AAA.

Seems to be the same case with Poirier.

As for Roy, the Juniors de Montréal was a contender during his 16 yo campaign, so he remained in MAAA for the most part. He might have been good enough to play on some lower tier teams, but Montréal was going for the cup (with Leblanc and company).

Dauphin would have been good enough hockey-wise last season to play, but he was way too thin and he would've gotten destroyed physically.

Gauthier was ready for the 'Q, but he was lurking towards the NCAA (Harvard), hence why he was drafted in the 3rd round. He chose to remain in the MAAA for another season and was a man amongst boys.

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06-08-2013, 06:36 AM
  #421
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Some thoughts of adding even more draft picks, in this very deep draft class, taking advantage of current situations and involving players not considered long term solutions to our team...

Desharnais (MTL) for 42nd overall+Rundblad (PHX)
Diaz (MTL) for 41st overall+Meszaros (PHI)
Weber (MTL) for 115th overall (NYI FROM MTL)
Ryder's rights (MTL) for 149th overall (ANA)
...and the colpo grosso Kaberle+86th overall (MTL) for DiPietro+15th overall (NYI) with DiPietro being bought out...

I this case our draft selections would look something like this:

1stRD...15th overall...(C) Bo Horvat
1stRD...25th overall...(D) Steve Santini
2ndRD...34th overall...(D) Ian McCoshen
2ndRD...36th overall...(LW) Emile Poirier
2ndRD...41st overall...(G) Phillipe Desrosiers
2ndRD...42nd overall...(RW) Zach Nastasiuk
2ndRD...55th overall...(RW) Justin Bailey
3rdRD...71st overall...(C) Nick Moutrey
4thRD...115th overall...(D) Mitcell Wheaton
5thRD...149th overall...Jeremy Gregoire or Andrei Mironov
6thRD...176th overall...Jean-Sebastian Dea or Axel Blomqvist
7thRD...206th overall...Mats Eller or Rinat Valiyev

Now thats an awesome draft year for us...I know that its unlikely to happen but i truly believe some of the above are worth consideration...

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06-08-2013, 06:42 AM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDN View Post
What about Desrosiers? Is he better than Fucale?
Not even close. Fucale is miles ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
So, there is really no valid argument against drafting Fucale. (And I won't be surprised if we do.)

You really can't build an argument using the absolutely vague "hometown pressure". Pressure is handled differently by every player. You surely all liked the way Roy handled it(93 anyone?).
  • Fact is, nobody know how Fucale will handle it in the bigs. Yes Thibault couldn't, yes Theodore couldn't, Price can't seem to, Huet... my point: hometown or not, goaltenders who can handle it in the NHL, in any city, makes it. Pittsburgh doesn't seem to be much better for Fleury...or Lalime in Ottawa or etc. etc.
  • You are evaluating this situation from the viewpoint of our last 10-15 years. Who knows how our past goaltenders would have performed without the need to be excellent night-in night-out because of often very bad defensive(and overall) talent. Good goaltenders are often made by good teams. Lets just say: it's been a very long time since this team could be evaluated as Stanley cup caliber talent-wise. If this changes they way you draft and why, you will keep losing, simple as that.
  • Nobody really can deny that goaltenders is one of our worse position in talent depth (maybe with RW). (Btw I'm taking Burakowsky before Fucale, but they are both in my top 20 selection list.)
There is a valid argument against Fucale. I'm a die hard Mooseheads fans who have seen him through two play-off runs and many many regular season games. He will be Price version 2 only not as good on the Habs. He'd be eaten alive in no time and he will not be able to stand it. You might not think it's valid, but I do. Fucale and Montreal, Montreal and ANY 1st round goalie right now, will be a disaster.

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06-08-2013, 06:45 AM
  #423
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Nice list Whitesnake.

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06-08-2013, 07:10 AM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
Some thoughts of adding even more draft picks, in this very deep draft class, taking advantage of current situations and involving players not considered long term solutions to our team...

Desharnais (MTL) for 42nd overall+Rundblad (PHX)
Diaz (MTL) for 41st overall+Meszaros (PHI)
Weber (MTL) for 115th overall (NYI FROM MTL)
Ryder's rights (MTL) for 149th overall (ANA)
...and the colpo grosso Kaberle+86th overall (MTL) for DiPietro+15th overall (NYI) with DiPietro being bought out...

I this case our draft selections would look something like this:

1stRD...15th overall...(C) Bo Horvat
1stRD...25th overall...(D) Steve Santini
2ndRD...34th overall...(D) Ian McCoshen
2ndRD...36th overall...(LW) Emile Poirier
2ndRD...41st overall...(G) Phillipe Desrosiers
2ndRD...42nd overall...(RW) Zach Nastasiuk
2ndRD...55th overall...(RW) Justin Bailey
3rdRD...71st overall...(C) Nick Moutrey
4thRD...115th overall...(D) Mitcell Wheaton
5thRD...149th overall...Jeremy Gregoire or Andrei Mironov
6thRD...176th overall...Jean-Sebastian Dea or Axel Blomqvist
7thRD...206th overall...Mats Eller or Rinat Valiyev

Now thats an awesome draft year for us...I know that its unlikely to happen but i truly believe some of the above are worth consideration...
This (crazy) post all around, just

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06-08-2013, 07:25 AM
  #425
SOLR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Not even close. Fucale is miles ahead.



There is a valid argument against Fucale. I'm a die hard Mooseheads fans who have seen him through two play-off runs and many many regular season games. He will be Price version 2 only not as good on the Habs. He'd be eaten alive in no time and he will not be able to stand it. You might not think it's valid, but I do. Fucale and Montreal, Montreal and ANY 1st round goalie right now, will be a disaster.
I just feel it's more your impressions (more emotional than factual) of a 17 years old. A valid argument would be that he's not good enough down low or that his physical training is behind etc. There is such a thing as being too close to the "action" with prospects.

I was looking attentively at the memorial cup to see if he would get nervous when the pressure ramps up, it didn't happen. At all. To suggest it will down the line because "it's Montreal" is such a vague concept. It might happen OR maybe not! For all we know he might support it better than you expect and absolutely out perform Price(or not). Nobody know.

What I do know: He's the best goaltender talent in this draft. We need goaltending talent. I don't think much further than that. Developing behind Price would also be a good situation where he doesn't have to stand on his head at 21-22 in the NHL.

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