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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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06-07-2013, 07:22 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Trotz may adjust his system somewhat but if you expect he will allow FF and whoever is drafted to step outside his system your going to be disappointed.

Do not expect FF or player selected 4th to average more than 7 to 9 minutes per game as well.

Again if ones expectations are more than this your going to be disappointed.
I think it depends on the new players. How many minutes did Radulov average his rookie season? Comparing these to Leggy in his first few years isn't completely fair. We aren't an expansion team with a roster filled with cast offs. These kids will have a strong supporting group of players to help them develop. The game is also more open offensively than when Leggy began his career. I would compare FF & this years pick with how Radulov was inserted into the lineup.

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06-07-2013, 08:04 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
I think it depends on the new players. How many minutes did Radulov average his rookie season? Comparing these to Leggy in his first few years isn't completely fair. We aren't an expansion team with a roster filled with cast offs. These kids will have a strong supporting group of players to help them develop. The game is also more open offensively than when Leggy began his career. I would compare FF & this years pick with how Radulov was inserted into the lineup.
Radulovs TOI in 06-07 was 11:38 including PP time
07-08 16:24 also including PP time

06-07 he was playin 3rd and 4th line
07-08 He played 2nd line

What will determine increased ice time will be DP if he does not sign any other forwards there will be increased ice time for the remaining forwards but FF and the 4 pick will not be playing 1st or 2nd line minutes.

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06-07-2013, 08:05 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
2nd overall in a pretty subpar draft as far as offensive talent goes. He has always lacked any sort of killer instinct on the offensive end, and is a subpar shooter. One could argue that the instinct got coached out of him, but that tends to be a quality that scorers either just have, or they don't, it's not something easily ingrained into a player. I don't believe he ever would have taken that next step offensively, regardless of where he was developed.
He was almost a Goal per game scorer one year not Point per game but GOAL per game. He was Fast and had great hands as a Junior player.
It's drifting Off topic here but it's applicable to the Preds choice this year. I think if Trotz gets input into the draft choice IE draft to his system not just BPA. My choice is Barkov but I bet that Trotz wants Nurse, Lindholm or Monahan.

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06-07-2013, 09:40 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
He was almost a Goal per game scorer one year not Point per game but GOAL per game. He was Fast and had great hands as a Junior player.
It's drifting Off topic here but it's applicable to the Preds choice this year. I think if Trotz gets input into the draft choice IE draft to his system not just BPA. My choice is Barkov but I bet that Trotz wants Nurse, Lindholm or Monahan.
For clarification, I have no issues with Legwand. He is fast, he does have good hands, and I also think he's an above average passer. I think part of his problems have stemmed from being more of a playmaker for an organization that has lacked good finishers. He is what he is at this point, and frankly, I find it hard to assess 894 games and 526 points as a failure by any measure.

Back to topic, there is no reason to think that Trotz would advocate any of those three over Barkov, considering Barkov is fairly well-praised for his strong two-way game as is.

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06-07-2013, 09:43 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
He was almost a Goal per game scorer one year not Point per game but GOAL per game. He was Fast and had great hands as a Junior player.
It's drifting Off topic here but it's applicable to the Preds choice this year. I think if Trotz gets input into the draft choice IE draft to his system not just BPA. My choice is Barkov but I bet that Trotz wants Nurse, Lindholm or Monahan.
Yeah legwand was a prize when he was drafted. There is reason he went so high, sub par draft or not.

But my question for you,
Why don't you think trotz would want barkov? He is so sound defensively as well, but also provides his bench with some much needed offense. He 'has' to understand they cannot score!

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06-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Radulovs TOI in 06-07 was 11:38 including PP time
07-08 16:24 also including PP time

06-07 he was playin 3rd and 4th line
07-08 He played 2nd line

What will determine increased ice time will be DP if he does not sign any other forwards there will be increased ice time for the remaining forwards but FF and the 4 pick will not be playing 1st or 2nd line minutes.
Agreed. They may have limited time on the 2nd line. Probably not getting extended minutes on the top 2 lines.

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06-07-2013, 10:06 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
For clarification, I have no issues with Legwand. He is fast, he does have good hands, and I also think he's an above average passer. I think part of his problems have stemmed from being more of a playmaker for an organization that has lacked good finishers. He is what he is at this point, and frankly, I find it hard to assess 894 games and 526 points as a failure by any measure.

Back to topic, there is no reason to think that Trotz would advocate any of those three over Barkov, considering Barkov is fairly well-praised for his strong two-way game as is.
I have always been a Legwand guy. I actually refer to him as "The Franchise". Watch him in Shoot-outs he's magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Yeah legwand was a prize when he was drafted. There is reason he went so high, sub par draft or not.

But my question for you,
Why don't you think trotz would want barkov? He is so sound defensively as well, but also provides his bench with some much needed offense. He 'has' to understand they cannot score!
I don't know if Trotz wants Barkov or not. I'm just thinking that the guys I listed are considered better defenders. Trotz wants one-way players IMO (as long as it's Defense)
I remember an Interview with Trotz about Radulov in his first camp. Trotz said he was not a good hockey player only a scorer and Rads was going to have to make adjustments to ever be a NHL player. Trotz almost sounded upset at Poile for drafting him. Since then we have not drafted anything but "two-way" guys or Defensemen. At that time no one knew how the Radulov situation was going to turn out. I personally feel that Rads left because of Trotz and not just $$$$$$


Last edited by Gnashville: 06-07-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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06-07-2013, 11:33 PM
  #583
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I guess I should remind folk that Trotz has coached some pretty good offensive teams. Not many, for sure, but we haven't exactly had the funds or appeal to attract the greatest offensive players.

Trotz doesn't hinder offense. Trotz coaches what he has. The guy obviously isn't infallible, but he does a pretty good job with what he has almost every year.

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06-07-2013, 11:36 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Radulovs TOI in 06-07 was 11:38 including PP time
07-08 16:24 also including PP time

06-07 he was playin 3rd and 4th line
07-08 He played 2nd line

What will determine increased ice time will be DP if he does not sign any other forwards there will be increased ice time for the remaining forwards but FF and the 4 pick will not be playing 1st or 2nd line minutes.
In 07-08 Radulov played a good portion of the season with Dumont and Arnott on the top line. Together they were one of the most productive lines in the entire league for a while. We just didn't really have anything else beneath them because of the firesale over the summer.

Rads also played on the top line with Arnott during the playoffs. Remember how he concussed him by celebrating a go-ahead goal?

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06-08-2013, 01:58 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I have always been a Legwand guy. I actually refer to him as "The Franchise". Watch him in Shoot-outs he's magic.
Legwand is very good in the shootout; however, he has ONE move. You'd think the goaltenders would know he's going deke forehand with the leg-kick and go top-shelf backhand.

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06-08-2013, 08:20 AM
  #586
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He needs to come out and just rip a forehand shot a few in a row.

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06-08-2013, 08:21 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I guess I should remind folk that Trotz has coached some pretty good offensive teams. Not many, for sure, but we haven't exactly had the funds or appeal to attract the greatest offensive players.

Trotz doesn't hinder offense. Trotz coaches what he has. The guy obviously isn't infallible, but he does a pretty good job with what he has almost every year.
When did he coach a very offensive minded team?? I don't know much about him before NHL that's why I ask thirdman.

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06-08-2013, 08:46 AM
  #588
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He didn't say offensive minded teams he said pretty good offensive teams.

When we had a top 9 of Kariya-Legwand-Erat, Sullivan-Arnott-Dumont, Hartnell-Forsberg-Radulov. We had a pretty good offensive team.

Also last season we were 8th offensively, and had the leagues top powerplay.

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06-08-2013, 10:01 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
In 07-08 Radulov played a good portion of the season with Dumont and Arnott on the top line. Together they were one of the most productive lines in the entire league for a while. We just didn't really have anything else beneath them because of the firesale over the summer.

Rads also played on the top line with Arnott during the playoffs. Remember how he concussed him by celebrating a go-ahead goal?
As I look back and think back your correct he was put there to replace Sully. I think this was also the year Arnott missed two extended periods injured and was the start of the fall from favor of Dumont. I just went back and pulled up the TOI and punched out a quick post. The situation was the reason he was moved up, I don't think Trotz makes it a habit of putting younger guys on the top two lines unless forced to. I would add this was a season I would have rather forgot I had a hard time getting pumped up to go see Mason in net after Liarpolds forced sell off.

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06-08-2013, 01:02 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
He didn't say offensive minded teams he said pretty good offensive teams.

When we had a top 9 of Kariya-Legwand-Erat, Sullivan-Arnott-Dumont, Hartnell-Forsberg-Radulov. We had a pretty good offensive team.

Also last season we were 8th offensively, and had the leagues top powerplay.
How did we not win a cup that year! Ugh!

Yeah I agree that we were on paper good offensively, but I think we can all agree that we need a go to guy on offense.
If we are down by one goal with a couple minutes left in the third, you need a guy you can put out there who you can count on. I'm hoping that is the guy we get this draft.

Just for curiosity sake, what would it take to get malkin??

Fourth overall, Ryan Ellis, Taylor beck and cehlin for malkin?!

Of course this deal would have to allow us to negotiate an extended contract with evgeni. Is that enough to get him though?!

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06-08-2013, 01:51 PM
  #591
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How did we not win a cup that year! Ugh!

Yeah I agree that we were on paper good offensively, but I think we can all agree that we need a go to guy on offense.
If we are down by one goal with a couple minutes left in the third, you need a guy you can put out there who you can count on. I'm hoping that is the guy we get this draft.

Just for curiosity sake, what would it take to get malkin??

Fourth overall, Ryan Ellis, Taylor beck and cehlin for malkin?!

Of course this deal would have to allow us to negotiate an extended contract with evgeni. Is that enough to get him though?!
That would not be enough to get Malkin. We'd be looking at the 4th overall plus either Josi or Wilson plus another nice piece.

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06-08-2013, 01:57 PM
  #592
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Question,

Would you accept if the Preds picked up a wing if they signed a UFA C like Saku Koivu.

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06-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #593
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Question,

Would you accept if the Preds picked up a wing if they signed a UFA C like Saku Koivu.
Depends on who the winger is and why they were still available. If Barkov and Mac were gone I'd be fine with Drouin but I think this team has always needed a stud at center and if we pass on one we're stupid. I am a huge fan of Koivu but he is no more than a third line center at this point so it doesn't really help us at all.

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06-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #594
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That would not be enough to get Malkin. We'd be looking at the 4th overall plus either Josi or Wilson plus another nice piece.
I would do Wilson and fourth overall, but don't know if I would add much more.
Maybe a pick or prospect of no major potential.

Having malkin longterm would be amazing though!!

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06-08-2013, 03:47 PM
  #595
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We don't need Saku, so I think you have to take Mac or Barkov if available. If not, maybe even take a look at trading down and taking Lindholm. Drouin is a nice pick up, though.

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06-08-2013, 03:56 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Question,

Would you accept if the Preds picked up a wing if they signed a UFA C like Saku Koivu.
Don't see Koivu leaving Anaheim. He'll play another year or two with Teemu, or he'll retire. At that, he's yet another #2/#3 at best...I'm not even sure he could fill the #2 role actually.

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06-08-2013, 05:02 PM
  #597
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I would do Wilson and fourth overall, but don't know if I would add much more.
Maybe a pick or prospect of no major potential.

Having malkin longterm would be amazing though!!
Then you wouldn't land Malkin. He's the second best player in the world. Wilson plus Barkov and a minor prospect or pick isn't going to get it done.

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06-08-2013, 05:27 PM
  #598
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Landing Malkin would be akin to Forsberg v 1.0. It would be a crap your pants moment

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06-08-2013, 05:59 PM
  #599
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Then you wouldn't land Malkin. He's the second best player in the world. Wilson plus Barkov and a minor prospect or pick isn't going to get it done.
What would it take then?? Just keep in mind if he decides he does want out to be a first line centre for someone else, the pens may not get such huge market value for him. I mean look at the kovalchuk deal, gaborik deal, Nash deal,
I know circumstances are always different, but I think the fourth overall pick in this insane draft, plus Wilson who is starting to really show how talented he can be, imagine Wilson playing with Crosby??

I would go as far as to add Ellis,
So Wilson, fourth overall and Ryan Ellis, I think Shero would at the very least have to think long and hard about that. Him and poile have relationship as we know, and they would be trading him out of the east and into the west so less games against him.

This is only if malkin decided he wanted out of Pittsburgh, if that is not the case then Pittsburgh signs him.

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06-08-2013, 06:23 PM
  #600
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#4 + Wilson is a good starting point for a package for Malkin I think. Add 1 more nice piece and I think you have as good a deal as anyone else would offer.

I doubt Pittsburgh will move him though.

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