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Are we there yet?

View Poll Results: ARE WE THERE YET??
No. We are far from making the Cup Finals 14 16.28%
No. We are at least 7 years away. 3 3.49%
No. We are 5-7 years away 15 17.44%
Yes. We will be playing for the cup in 3-5 years 39 45.35%
Yes. We will be playing for the Cup in 3 years 15 17.44%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-07-2013, 06:27 PM
  #76
Player 61
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Some of you are way to positive around here, Not even close, Boston and Philly are the 2 Eastern Contenders, until we start dumping small, we will never last in Play-offs.

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06-07-2013, 06:45 PM
  #77
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Yes, the team does miss that sniper element, but I also like the 3 line offensive balance. By rugged, I mean guys who are made for the playoff grind. Out of all the leagues, I think the nhl post season differs more than the regular than any other sport. We have to be mindful of the kinds of players who tend to elevate their game, or are primed for the playoff format, to compliment what the team already has.

I think if you can locate these rugged, character guys, the "size issue" will slowly fizzle away, or take care of itself.
Well, I'm of the opinion that the size issue, at least at forward, is not the problem its made out to be. Despite howling protestations to the contrary, the Sens didn't beat the Habs on forcing the forwards to the outside.

As of right now the Habs have about as much bigger than average players in their top six/nine as most cup winners. And the difference between DD, Gionta and Gallagher and 3 of the forwards Chicago has in their top nine is inches in height, but the same weight and that the Habs tiny forwards are as a group way better at getting goals from dirty areas of the ice.

I'd say the easiest point of improvement is to revamp the d core to be better at helping the goaltending out. But that's changing 1 or 2 bodies to a group that already is pretty strong in a number of areas.

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06-07-2013, 06:47 PM
  #78
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Some of you are way to positive around here, Not even close, Boston and Philly are the 2 Eastern Contenders, until we start dumping small, we will never last in Play-offs.
Yes we should be terrified of Philly, who have a defensive corps barely hanging together on a 37 year old's shoulders, a perpetual crisis in net and no prospect pool.

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06-07-2013, 07:03 PM
  #79
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Still way too small and soft.

Habs just can't compete in the playoffs.

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06-07-2013, 07:08 PM
  #80
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I say 5 years IF everything fall into place the way it should. By that i mean Galchenyuk becoming a star , Subban keeping his pace , Eller taking the next step , young D prospects coming in and making an impact (Beaulieu , Tinordi in particular) , signing the right UFA or making the right trades , team adding more size and physicality ect ect ect

I say we are 2-3 years of being a competitively year in and year out if the right moves are made but the cup is another story and will take much longer.

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06-07-2013, 07:32 PM
  #81
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Some of you are way to positive around here, Not even close, Boston and Philly are the 2 Eastern Contenders, until we start dumping small, we will never last in Play-offs.
Phillie isn't even a playoff team let alone a contender.

I don't see them or Boston dumping their small players so they are not preventing us from winning anything.

Not just a narrow minded view but completely wrong.

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06-07-2013, 07:36 PM
  #82
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Phillie isn't even a playoff team let alone a contender.

I don't see them or Boston dumping their small players so they are not preventing us from winning anything.

Not just a narrow minded view but completely wrong.
Not to mention that this is likely the zenith of Boston. After this they are tightly cap constrained, Chara is aging out and I don't think much of their prospect system. Not that they'll suck, but they're hardly invincible.

In any event, the evil secret to Boston isn't size, its that its brutally tough to score on a Bergeron, Chara and Rask led defense. A elite player at each of the key defensive positions.

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06-07-2013, 07:58 PM
  #83
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Phillie isn't even a playoff team let alone a contender.

I don't see them or Boston dumping their small players so they are not preventing us from winning anything.

Not just a narrow minded view but completely wrong.
Flyers have problem in defense and in the goals.

That Brizgalov deal turned out so bad.

I do expect them to pick Zadorov/Nurse/Morin.

Their offense is quite good but trading Carter and Richards is costing them a few years.

Plus SCap: Briere buy back? Pronger stays on LTIR or buy back?
Could they go after Streit?

How could we think they were top East team last season?

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06-07-2013, 08:14 PM
  #84
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Not to mention that this is likely the zenith of Boston. After this they are tightly cap constrained, Chara is aging out and I don't think much of their prospect system. Not that they'll suck, but they're hardly invincible.

In any event, the evil secret to Boston isn't size, its that its brutally tough to score on a Bergeron, Chara and Rask led defense. A elite player at each of the key defensive positions.
Rask is finishing a one year contract.
He will be RFA.

How much do you think he will get? 5M? 6M?

Bruins have 60M SCap for 18 players.
Just signing Rask puts them over the cap. They also need another goalie (1M).
Could they get relief by using compliance buy out with Savard?

This off-season will generates more changes and opportunities with SCap going down.

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06-07-2013, 10:21 PM
  #85
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In any event, the evil secret to Boston isn't size, its that its brutally tough to score on a Bergeron, Chara and Rask led defense. A elite player at each of the key defensive positions.
Rightttt, so lets ignore the fact that Horton, Lucic, and Chara are all large players who play there role to a tee when it counts and are leading the charge in stats. Awesome logic from the fans here who don't believe size is a key factor, even though the 'skilled' Penguins were just booted in 4 games.

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06-07-2013, 11:16 PM
  #86
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Rightttt, so lets ignore the fact that Horton, Lucic, and Chara are all large players who play there role to a tee when it counts and are leading the charge in stats. Awesome logic from the fans here who don't believe size is a key factor, even though the 'skilled' Penguins were just booted in 4 games.
Boston is actually smaller than Pittsburgh. After Horton, Lucic and Chara, Boston's size is largely non-existant.

And to focus on Chara's size is to ignore how good he is at hockey in general. As is how much a two way stud Bergeron is.

Lets also ignore that they barely squeaked a win over Toronto.

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06-07-2013, 11:18 PM
  #87
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I don't wanna say we'll be playing for a cup guranteed in 3-5 years, but I see as a serious contender in that time frame.

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06-08-2013, 01:30 AM
  #88
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I think we need to take a step back from this horrendous playoff and take a look at the direction our organisation is going.

Last year we finished 3rd last. We had enormous problems on the back-end, couldn't depend on more than 3 players to score.

We added :

-Galchenyuk (most of us here, even pessimists (sp?), agree he has 1st line player all over him)
-Gallagher (a sure-fire top6 forward, will be in the finalists for Calder)
-P.K. elevated his play to #1 undisputed defenseman in this league (finalist for the Norris)
-We dumped Gomez contract and will be dumping Kaberle's contract as well.
-We acquired many picks in this year's draft
-Traded Cole's contract away saving us some money to spend on our RFAs or UFAs
-Found ourselves a reliable #2 goaltender than will be with us for a couple more years(when we traded away Halak I feared when would be playing musical chair with this position for yearsss!)

We went from a bottom feeder team to a really good regular season team in only one year. I think we made TREMENDOUS progress and we really have to be happy with the job Bergevin has made.

The step we now have to make is between a playoff team to a dangerous playoff team. This development takes time we can't expect over one season to go from last in the east to play for the cup. We have done a lot of things right and I don't see anything showing me that we are not still going the right way here.

I'd say in 3 years we are a serious contender.

A player like Bickell in UFA this season + a replacement for Moen or White on the fourth line + a minute-eating defenseman like Komisarek when he was good with us would go a long way.

Also let's not forget a couple years means we get rid of gionta's contract(in my mind he is beyong useless) and all our young players (PK, PAC, Galchenyuk,Gallagher, Tinordi) can gain some experience. They are all young and all Key pieces to our club and other than PK, it was all their first playoff taste!! (PK was only his second taste)

What i'm trying to say is even if we still have some work to do, let's take a moment and look back and see how far we've come. I have A LOT of faith in the new management(something I haven't say too much in the past 10 years) and i really like what we are building!

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06-08-2013, 03:47 AM
  #89
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[QUOTE=Talks to Goalposts;67170797]Well, I'm of the opinion that the size issue, at least at forward, is not the problem its made out to be. Despite howling protestations to the contrary, the Sens didn't beat the Habs on forcing the forwards to the outside.

As of right now the Habs have about as much bigger than average players in their top six/nine as most cup winners. And the difference between DD, Gionta and Gallagher and 3 of the forwards Chicago has in their top nine is inches in height, but the same weight and that the Habs tiny forwards are as a group way better at getting goals from dirty areas of the ice.

I'd say the easiest point of improvement is to revamp the d core to be better at helping the goaltending out. But that's changing 1 or 2 bodies to a group that already is pretty strong in a number of areas.
[/B]

I agree with what you said about the sens. The habs certainly had their chances, but I felt that the sens were getting easy and opportunistic goals. Anderson was stellar, while Price was not as good as the habs needed him to be. That's what it really boiled down to, above all else.

I don't want a dismantling of the top 6, but rather one more rugged body that can be added to the core, which in turn can take some load off of Gionta. With the miles on gionta, and given his contract status, it's time to start that transition. I'm also a little nervous about Desharnais, who I've generally supported, but I was very disappointed with his play after he signed his new deal. Hopefully, it was just a case of adjusting to the new pressures of a wealthy contract, because if that's the case, I think he can overcome that.

Regarding the D, I'll echo my original post. The top 4 is decent in Markov, Subban, Emelin, and Gorges/Diaz. The #6 and #7 slots can be upgraded though. Bouillon should be an insurance policy and never be forced into a greater role than that. That leaves room for Tinordi, assuming he continues to progress, and another crease clearing, stay at home defender to round out the depth.

I think we are in agreement for the most part.

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06-08-2013, 03:47 AM
  #90
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Some of you are way to positive around here, Not even close, Boston and Philly are the 2 Eastern Contenders, until we start dumping small, we will never last in Play-offs.
Philly has no D and no Goalie, how are they contenders ?

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06-08-2013, 07:39 AM
  #91
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like ive been saying, production aside i dont think our team can grind through 4 playoff rounds to win the cup. i feel like theres a big difference between having a good regular season team and a good playoff team, were just too soft. christ have u seen our d-core?


its stiinks past pk and emelin

if markov, dias , Cube and Gorjes are 3-6 we are f k d

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06-08-2013, 07:47 AM
  #92
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Philly has no D and no Goalie, how are they contenders ?
philly was decimated by injuries by friend on d , that was limited in the first place

they have fantastic youth , they will get a solid d with their first pick

they will amnesty Briere and Breezy and free up cap , they will free up another 6 mil when Timonen leaves after next year

everything that that could go wrong did go wrong last year , we overchieved they completely underachived

Mason might be their answer , but there are many goalies they could pick up if they want , look at Crawford he is ok not greaat , but gets the job done

this will be 2007 all over again , they went from second overall pick to a solid team right away

they will be fine and not miss the playoffs next season

Holmgren will make the right moves

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06-08-2013, 08:01 AM
  #93
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[QUOTE=Hackett;67195311]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Well, I'm of the opinion that the size issue, at least at forward, is not the problem its made out to be. Despite howling protestations to the contrary, the Sens didn't beat the Habs on forcing the forwards to the outside.

As of right now the Habs have about as much bigger than average players in their top six/nine as most cup winners. And the difference between DD, Gionta and Gallagher and 3 of the forwards Chicago has in their top nine is inches in height, but the same weight and that the Habs tiny forwards are as a group way better at getting goals from dirty areas of the ice.

I'd say the easiest point of improvement is to revamp the d core to be better at helping the goaltending out. But that's changing 1 or 2 bodies to a group that already is pretty strong in a number of areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
[/B]

I agree with what you said about the sens. The habs certainly had their chances, but I felt that the sens were getting easy and opportunistic goals. Anderson was stellar, while Price was not as good as the habs needed him to be. That's what it really boiled down to, above all else.

I don't want a dismantling of the top 6, but rather one more rugged body that can be added to the core, which in turn can take some load off of Gionta. With the miles on gionta, and given his contract status, it's time to start that transition. I'm also a little nervous about Desharnais, who I've generally supported, but I was very disappointed with his play after he signed his new deal. Hopefully, it was just a case of adjusting to the new pressures of a wealthy contract, because if that's the case, I think he can overcome that.

Regarding the D, I'll echo my original post. The top 4 is decent in Markov, Subban, Emelin, and Gorges/Diaz. The #6 and #7 slots can be upgraded though. Bouillon should be an insurance policy and never be forced into a greater role than that. That leaves room for Tinordi, assuming he continues to progress, and another crease clearing, stay at home defender to round out the depth.

I think we are in agreement for the most part.
not a chance , one dude said it best last week

Markov is paid front line money and is playing like a 4/5

Cube is depth filler , no more

Dias is to montreal what Krug is to Boston , a specialty depth guy , he is useless when the going gets tough
there is no way he and Markov can play on your top 4 together

Gorges is overated , a decent 4/5 but doesn`t have the size to compete down low

watch the Bruins , Chara , Boychuk, Sidenberg are players u have on your top 4
they dont give u an inch and will pound u down low

they move the puck out the zone very well . and Dougie will step in great next year

PK and Emelin are our only reliable defenders come playoff time, the rest are weak

I am not counting Tinordi and so on ..until they prove themselves in time

we can blame Price all we want in the playoffs , I dont care how many scoring chances we had , until we fix this broken back end we r going nowhere come April

no one has the Pens fire power , but overall team defence will win cups and the Pens are just too sloppy like us right now

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06-08-2013, 09:37 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
not a chance , one dude said it best last week

Markov is paid front line money and is playing like a 4/5

Cube is depth filler , no more

Dias is to montreal what Krug is to Boston , a specialty depth guy , he is useless when the going gets tough
there is no way he and Markov can play on your top 4 together

Gorges is overated , a decent 4/5 but doesn`t have the size to compete down low

watch the Bruins , Chara , Boychuk, Sidenberg are players u have on your top 4
they dont give u an inch and will pound u down low

they move the puck out the zone very well . and Dougie will step in great next year

PK and Emelin are our only reliable defenders come playoff time, the rest are weak

I am not counting Tinordi and so on ..until they prove themselves in time

we can blame Price all we want in the playoffs , I dont care how many scoring chances we had , until we fix this broken back end we r going nowhere come April

no one has the Pens fire power , but overall team defence will win cups and the Pens are just too sloppy like us right now
In what world is Markov a 4/5th D? You do realize that he finished the season 4th in Points, 3rd in Goals, 1st in PP Goals, 1st in GWG, was in the top 30 for TOI. His only negative was his +/- and that is basically a result of a cold streak when he went -13 in 12 games.

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06-08-2013, 09:51 AM
  #95
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I always thought and still think that Montreal wont compete until they have a number one center. Hopefully Galchenyuk will become that . Other weaknesses of Montreal would be size in top6 and defensive depth. Gionta will probably(hopefully) not be re-signed and if DD stays he wont be in the top6 so that will definetly help. Also all of our defenseman prospect are 1-4 years away from the NHL so our defense will be better soon enough. 3-5 years is the best time frame since the 2012 and 2013 draft prospects we will acquire will be 1-2 years in the NHL

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06-08-2013, 10:46 AM
  #96
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Boston is actually smaller than Pittsburgh. After Horton, Lucic and Chara, Boston's size is largely non-existant.

And to focus on Chara's size is to ignore how good he is at hockey in general. As is how much a two way stud Bergeron is.

Lets also ignore that they barely squeaked a win over Toronto.
For the 100th time, the key players in Boston are big, or play big, that is the difference in the playoffs. Your Chara comment makes no sense. The fact he plays so well for a big man, is the entire argument here.

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06-08-2013, 10:51 AM
  #97
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For the 100th time, the key players in Boston are big, or play big, that is the difference in the playoffs. Your Chara comment makes no sense. The fact he plays so well for a big man, is the entire argument here.
The key part isn't Chara's "bigness" its his "eliteness" replace him with a Lidstrom and the results are largely the same. Chara's size really matters to the extent it helps him be one of the best defensemen in the league.

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06-08-2013, 11:06 AM
  #98
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This team is simply not built to survive 4 rounds of attrition in 1-0/2-1 games against good teams that also have the physical edge. That much is obvious.

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06-08-2013, 11:09 AM
  #99
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Still missing top end talent up front, especially on the wings. If Galchenyuk develops the way we expect him to, the centre position with Plekanec, Galchenyuk and Eller is fine. The D also needs some work, but they have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Dietz developing...hopefully they can help round up the defensive core which needs some work, even if only two develop as expected.

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06-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #100
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Boston is destroying Pittsburgh who destroyed Ottawa who destroyed the Habs. What's a fan to think?
I think we do have a way to go, but I don't think the fact that Boston is destroying the team that destroyed the team that destroyed us necessarily means anything. That happens in hockey. Matchups, momentum, etc all play a part.

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