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Why buying out Samuelsson really makes sense

View Poll Results: What would you do with Samuelsson?
Keep Sammy and his 3.0 million caphit 2 3.23%
Buy Sammy out for 2.0 mil and sign Cleary for 1.5 mil 5 8.06%
Buy Sammy out for 2.0 mil and sign Miller for 900k 55 88.71%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-08-2013, 11:14 AM
  #26
jaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
Half the player Emmerton is? ha, Ferraro has already put up better numbers in the AHL then Emmerton ever did, I would rather have Ferraro on the Wings than Emmerton.
That's not the point. I don't necessarily disagree that Ferraro projects to be better than Emmerton currently is, or that, long-term, Ferraro is more attractive. But the keyword there is "project." Emmerton has 139 NHL games under his belt, including 18 playoff games. We know what we have with him. Ferraro has 0 NHL games. He's a complete unknown in the NHL.

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06-08-2013, 11:30 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Ferraro led our AHL team in goal scoring and the entire AHL in shorthanded points, he is faster than Miller, he plays harder on the puck than Miller, he actually finishes checks more often than Miller. Might be a wash as he is a rookie learning but, he also has center flexibility and protects teammates when something wrong happens.
Ferraro has a few advantages over Miller at this time, but Miller has a ton over Ferraro. In time, Ferraro may certainly pass him up (though it will not be at the start of 2013-14), but it would not be a wash initially. That's underrating what Miller currently is and/or overrating what Ferraro currently is.


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Half the player Miller is, come on people the silver fox was claimed off waivers twice before getting here from Anaheim and then Tampa.
Not really relevant. Miller is not the same player he was when he was waived. He has developed into a valuable piece of this team.


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Emmerton I think is better suited for the wing, but would also have center flexibility. Both are fazed out over time it is just Emmerton has a contract and Miller doesn't.
I think Emmerton, Miller, Eaves..... all will be fazed out over time. But for Miller, I don't think that time is now. Ferraro is not going to make the team to start next year. The Wings want him to spend another year in GR. So you let Miller walk, and who's going to do his job as a 4th-line PKer as well as he does?


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I see no reason to bring Miller back unless you have traded Eaves or Tootoo. Fourth line players should come from within and they shouldn't block youngsters that are probably just as good.
Miller's not blocking anyone at this time. And he has been on the team for 4 years, so if he's re-signed, he is coming from within. But that aside, why must 4th-line players come from within? Not sure I've ever heard anyone claim that.


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Miller doesn't make anyone on our roster half the player as him.
No one said that


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I know people like him but he isn't that good and he isn't irreplaceable.
For a top-6 guy, or a PP guy, or even a 3rd-liner? No, he's not good. For a 4th-line PKer, he's about as good as they come. So, yes, he is good, in terms of assigned role.


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He also doesn't make Sheahan or Ferraro half the player if they wanted to go with them in that role which I am guessing they don't.
Initially, he does, easily. In time, Ferraro and Sheahan may very well pass him. But again, Ferraro and Sheahan are not currently relevant in terms of Miller. Both will be back in GR.

Sorry, didn't initially mean to chop your post up so much, but you touched on a lot of points

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06-08-2013, 11:39 AM
  #28
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Holland demands a keep Sammy and resign Cleary option.

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06-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
That's not the point. I don't necessarily disagree that Ferraro projects to be better than Emmerton currently is, or that, long-term, Ferraro is more attractive. But the keyword there is "project." Emmerton has 139 NHL games under his belt, including 18 playoff games. We know what we have with him. Ferraro has 0 NHL games. He's a complete unknown in the NHL.
I hate the term "we know what we have with ______". Especially when what we know about that player is that they are nothing special.

Seems like a low risk high reward proposition to give Ferraro a bottom 6 roster spot over Emmerton. We know Ferraro is faster, has a better shot, and has been playing big PK minutes in GR. I like our chances with that one.

Everyone was a complete unknown in the AHL. We didn't know what we had with Nyquist or Andersson. When we found out we were glad to have them.

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06-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #30
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"There's little doubt that the Wings will buy out Mikael Samuelsson and his $3 million dollars owed next season..."

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...in-trades-grif

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06-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hckytwn View Post
"There's little doubt that the Wings will buy out Mikael Samuelsson and his $3 million dollars owed next season..."

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...in-trades-grif
What we like to hear

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06-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #32
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Yeah.. but that's from Malik.

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06-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Can one buy-out a guy with a NTC?

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06-08-2013, 01:04 PM
  #34
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I understand what you're saying, just throwing out a proposal. Other teams could offer more high end talent. But I sometimes disagree when people say no one wants Mule. We may have our hatred for him due to his inconsistent play. But he's still a 25-30 goal scorer.
And you still have to remember with Mule is, If we trade him and he retires early were still on the hook for the money that left not the team that he was traded to. So with that fact we might as well just hold on to him not that if he were traded to Pittsburgh would he retire early most likely if he were traded to a team like Buffalo and Edmonton then yeah i could see him retiring early.

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06-08-2013, 01:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
Awful. Why is Tootoo on the 3rd line? If Wings make the playoffs, he gets benched.

So our bottom 6 scoring depth is Patrick Eaves and *maybe* Tatar? That's scary!

Not sure Helm will be back to start the season, but if he is, maybe Holland can trade Emmerton to Dallas for a 7th or something. Seems Nill is already off to making some questionable moves with the recent signing of 40yr old Gonchar for $10 million for the next 2 years.

Buying out Samuelsson makes absolutely no sense. He was brought in as a depth goal scorer. If he's injured, Holland can call up the young studs.

People simply don't understand the value of not only depth, but veteran leadership depth.

Whatever Holland is doing is working, Wings were one bounce away from going to the WCFs, and they would have certainly would have dismantled the Kings.

Arm chair GMing is fun. But I do question some decisions people try to propose then are disappointed when they ridiculous "envision" isn't acted out because they think they know how to make an NHL hockey club better.

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06-08-2013, 01:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
Can one buy-out a guy with a NTC?
Yes a NTC has nothing to with a buyout? It just means that you cant trade them without there consent to another team, They will usually give there team a 8 to 10 team list that they would accept a trade to. But a NTC does'nt meant that that person cant be boughout they still can.

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06-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Yes a NTC has nothing to with a buyout? It just means that you cant trade them without there consent to another team, They will usually give there team a 8 to 10 team list that they would accept a trade to. But a NTC does'nt meant that that person cant be boughout they still can.
I know what a NTC is. Just wondered if that also could stop a buy-out

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06-08-2013, 01:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
I know what a NTC is. Just wondered if that also could stop a buy-out
No according to Capgeek a player with a NTC can still be boughout, A NTC does'nt prevent them from being boughtout.

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06-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hckytwn View Post
"There's little doubt that the Wings will buy out Mikael Samuelsson and his $3 million dollars owed next season..."

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...in-trades-grif
Malik must be a moron, because straight from Ken Hollands mouth

Quote:
“Next year, we hope to have Darren Helm back,” Holland said. “We hope to have a healthy Todd Bertuzzi. We hope to have a healthy Mikael Samuelsson. You can look forward to September 2013, and think we are going to have a real good competition” at training camp.
Malik reported it

Khan says Samuelsson Samuelsson may need surgery for his torn pectoral muscle. Just put him on IR if this is true.

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06-08-2013, 02:30 PM
  #40
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“ “We hope to have a healthy Todd Bertuzzi. We hope to have a healthy Mikael Samuelsson. You can look forward to September 2013, and think we are going to have a real good competition” at training camp.

I swear that sounds just like a mock quote someone would post on here of Holland that we would laugh at.... but it actually came true.

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06-08-2013, 06:23 PM
  #41
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Samuelsson is so useless, any other team would see it and buy him out. He isn't good enough to play top six and he isn't a bottom sixer either, not to mention 3 million is way to much for a completely useless player. Also add to the fact the guy is so injury prone that he isn't even healthy for half a season.

Tatar can play any position this bum can way better for less then a third of the cap hit.

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06-08-2013, 06:37 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Yeah.. but that's from Malik.
Malik knowing how the Wings work internally is on par with my dog knowing how to grill a steak.

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06-08-2013, 06:51 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by YostisHome View Post
I swear that sounds just like a mock quote someone would post on here of Holland that we would laugh at.... but it actually came true.
Scoring.depth.wins.championships.

Last good team Sammy played on, he scored 50 points, he scored 31 points on a bad team playing just a little over a half a season.

There is no reason why he can't score 40-50 points again next season. Sammy is also big in the playoffs, something the Red Wings could have really used this year. Had he been playing, Wings might be closing out the Kings this weekend.

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06-08-2013, 09:23 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Scoring.depth.wins.championships.

Last good team Sammy played on, he scored 50 points, he scored 31 points on a bad team playing just a little over a half a season.

There is no reason why he can't score 40-50 points again next season. Sammy is also big in the playoffs, something the Red Wings could have really used this year. Had he been playing, Wings might be closing out the Kings this weekend.
Of course there's a reason.

He's on the wrong side of 35 and he's going to stay there. He's more injury prone for it and he's lost speed for it.

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06-08-2013, 09:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Scoring.depth.wins.championships.

Last good team Sammy played on, he scored 50 points, he scored 31 points on a bad team playing just a little over a half a season.

There is no reason why he can't score 40-50 points again next season. Sammy is also big in the playoffs, something the Red Wings could have really used this year. Had he been playing, Wings might be closing out the Kings this weekend.
.....


Last edited by Zetterberg4Captain: 06-08-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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06-08-2013, 10:34 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Even some idiot coach like Babcock understands that Cleary is getting old. And will find and sell a reduced role for an older player.
How confident are you that Babs would suddenly realize that Cleary is getting old and bump him down the lineup or into the pressbox accordingly? It didn't happen during the regular season when Run DFC had a death grip on a top 6 spot despite his abysmal play. Cleary did pick it up during the PO's but in no way do I feel sure that his play was some sign of a career renaissance- more likely a flash in the pan from an aging, slow player.


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Originally Posted by alConn View Post
Under $1M Cleary isn't happening.

The dude should be on the 4th line, but Babcock won't play him there - that's the primary reason people don't want him back. If we knew Cleary would be getting 4th line minutes, alot more people would want to resign him.
And here it is... Kenny probably has to keep Cleary off the roster next year so that giving him a top 6 spot, or making him the first top 6 fill-in when a guy gets injured, isn't even an option.

For all of the great things that Babs brings to the table as a coach, an over-reliance on "his guys" can be a problem. Say that Bert and Sammy come into next season healthy and Kenny re-signs Cleary... that's 25% of your forward corps made up by past-their-prime guys that Babs loves who are each in a steady decline as players.

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06-08-2013, 10:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
Can one buy-out a guy with a NTC?
They are a little more rare but I would expect a player with a full NMC cannot be bought out. The NHLPA would fight that tooth and nail.

Tampa has quite a few and Malone's turns over into a NTC starting next season, but curious if he is outright protected through the buyout period this summer.

If you're a good enough player you probably don't care, you can double dip and most guys with a NMC are good enough they aren't being considered for a buyout period. But I would expect the players to fight very hard if the player didn't want to be bought out. Like if Tampa was to consider this with Vinny, he would file a grievance.

Surprised Briere doesn't use this to fight his situation, of course since he makes very little money over the next few years, maybe that is why he is on board with it.

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06-08-2013, 10:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Malik must be a moron, because straight from Ken Hollands mouth



Malik reported it

Khan says Samuelsson Samuelsson may need surgery for his torn pectoral muscle. Just put him on IR if this is true.
If Samuelsson has surgery, he won't be eligible to be bought out.

If he is bought out we just paid him what 3.5 million for 8 games, ouch.

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06-08-2013, 10:56 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Buying out Samuelsson makes absolutely no sense. He was brought in as a depth goal scorer. If he's injured, Holland can call up the young studs.

People simply don't understand the value of not only depth, but veteran leadership depth.
The Wings had plenty of depth up front and on the blue line, and while they lost a lot guys to injuries during the season and PO's, they were fortunate to not have any of their star players go down for any significant amount of time.

They were breaking in some young guys for a change, but they have a ton of veteran guys on their team, many whom have Cup finals experience. I don't think their locker room was lacking anything that he could provide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Scoring.depth.wins.championships.

Last good team Sammy played on, he scored 50 points, he scored 31 points on a bad team playing just a little over a half a season.

There is no reason why he can't score 40-50 points again next season. Sammy is also big in the playoffs, something the Red Wings could have really used this year. Had he been playing, Wings might be closing out the Kings this weekend.
Not sure that Sammy's quite good enough to be considered the sole difference-maker to not only get us past the Hawks, but also past the Kings. I kinda doubt that Quenneville was telling his guys "Thank God that Sammy is out for this series! Put that guy on the ice and we are completely screwed!"

I just don't see Sammy putting up that many points for us. He's not good enough for top 6 duty and it's not like Andersson and Emmerton are skilled playmakers to set up his offense in the bottom 6.

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06-08-2013, 11:47 PM
  #50
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It's just another chapter is the bizarre world that is the Red Wings hierarchy. Holland loves Sammy, Babs loves Cleary and neither one of them holds their darlings to any type of standard. It's just another frustrating aspect of being a fan of this team. We have a decent amount of things going right around here but the people running the ship can't get out of their own way unfortunately to take us to that next level.

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