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Maybe Torts Wasn't the Problem

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06-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
List the gifted offensive defensemen. All the remaining teams have them.

Who are their offensive forces that scare the opposition?

Nash and ?
I do agree with this too though. I was talking in other threads about the lack of offensive ability and control from the blueline. Hence why Slats gets blame. The failure GM needs to put it together.

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06-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #127
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It's working beautifully for the Bruins.
Yeah because Seguin, Horton, and Jagr are Selke candidates. The Bruins have plenty of guys who are out there primarily to create offense. That completely changes the way defenses have to play them. With the Rangers, you stop Nash you stop the team.

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06-08-2013, 01:51 PM
  #128
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It's working beautifully for the Bruins.
They don't collapse. They shoot on the net. They practice offense.

It'd work beautifully on the Rangers if the definition of "more complete" was in fact "more complete" and not "solely defense".

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06-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Oh please. Then why didn't all 18 of our skaters get traded? Our team had a motivational problem from game 1 this season. Something happened in the locker room. Torts wasn't effective. I'm not blaming Torts for everything but he made some idiotic moves. Moves not only idiotic on the ice but idiotic in terms of what they did with the relationships he had with the players. He killed the confidence of Richards, Gaborik, Kreider... those 3 could have been huge contributors.

Kreider flopped? He had boned chips in his ankle all season. Have you played with bone chips in your ankle? I've heard they are very painful and debilitating. Additionally, he yo-yo'ed him. Up and down in the line up, up and down on the team and to AHL. You don't do that with a top prospect. You develop him properly. You give him ample time and chances to develop.

Enough of this "he didn't earn it" lunacy. He's your TOP prospect. You MUST develop him properly. If he's up in your big club you play him top 9 minutes consistently and you reassure him to BOOST his confidence. If he's not ready you play him top 3 minutes in your AHL affiliate until he is ready and then you give him proper chances to prove himself in the NHL. When Kreider killed it in the NHL he was still only used on the 4th line. Idiotic.

Same goes for putting Gabby and Richards on the 3rd line with a bunch of grinders. Whats that going to do to their confidence? It's certainly not going to help them when they have even less of a chance to score goals.

We did not have enough depth, exactly. Our players did not perform, no argument there. But our coach was a big part of the problem and he needed to go. Motivation is winning? Again, then we must have traded all 18 guys and not just Gaborik.
Never said Tortorella didn't need to go.

Sather giving him the roster he did to start the season didn't help.

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06-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Kreider flopped? He had boned chips in his ankle all season. Have you played with bone chips in your ankle? I've heard they are very painful and debilitating. Additionally, he yo-yo'ed him. Up and down in the line up, up and down on the team and to AHL. You don't do that with a top prospect. You develop him properly. You give him ample time and chances to develop.

.
Had them in my knees it was awful. Every single step sent sharp pain out from my knees. Dunno how bad it felt for CK but I was still able to run and do everything without limping and the adrenaline let's you pretty much block it out during games. Agree with needing to give him more time I think Torts was trying to tell the organization that mentally he needed more AHL time and of course idiot Sather keeps yo-yoing him back and forth imo.

Richards and Gabs have zero excuses they were terrible. They both got old imo. Torts was not the problem he was certainly a problem though.

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06-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Never said Tortorella didn't need to go.

Sather giving him the roster he did to start the season didn't help.
And Tortorella not adjusting to his offense didn't help either. He could have made better decisions with his players.

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06-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #132
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Now that Boston has wasted Pittsburgh, isn't it apparent to most people that the reason the Rangers loss to the Bruins had nothing to do with their coach?
One could argue PIT lost because of their coach too.

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06-08-2013, 01:55 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You don't seem to grasp the difference between hyperbole and making something up.
hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/

Noun
Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Which is exactly what it was, it was based on the reports that the team was unhappy with Torts, in one of them the reporter used the phrase "roadblock to success".

So again, are you going to leave it alone, or should we continue bickering about something I already edited, admitted to it being sarcasm/hyperbole, and never claimed to be real?

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06-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #134
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Such a ****ing disaster that the team managed to make the 2nd round of the playoffs. What in the hell does that make the rest of the league? Disgraces?
I agree that Hank is not immune to criticism, but he's the only reason the team had any success this season.

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06-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #135
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Why is Gaborik even in the discussion, he was traded.
And how did Hank manage to get dragged into this discussion?

So it's not the coach's fault, but the best player on the team and/or a guy who got traded.


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06-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #136
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I love it - according to Rangers fans it was all in spite of the coach and it's going to be nothing but sunshine and rainbows from here on out.

My question: Who will you blame next year when the team fails to meet your unreasonable expectations?

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06-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Is that a joke of a statement? What if I said "Did you ever take a second to think that the team's 'performance' in Game 4 was a back breaker (emotionally) to Hank?". They're professionals. They played plenty of emotional games. It's on the coach to focus them if they are letting any type of emotions get to them from game to game. Don't insinuate that his poor performance in game 5 is the reason they threw the towel in after being in the game all of game 6. I could do the same with team's performance in game 4 and the effect it could have potentially had on Henrik in game 5. Doesn't mean it's true.
Uh, they are also human. That "performance" in game 5 clearly had an effect on the team. Is that a good thing? Nope. But it was painfully obvious for anyone who watched the game. They should not have let it effect them and you won't see me say otherwise, but it pretty clearly did.

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His play was outstanding in 4 of the 6 games. 2 of the 6 it was not. Henrik is not perfect but HE is the reason we got to where we did. Don't fool yourself. This team would be no where with out him. It wouldn't have gone to the ECF last year with out him. They wouldn't have made the playoffs any of the other years Torts was here either.
Outstanding in 4 games? Laughable. He was great in game 3 and was very good in game 1 (he was hardly challenged and it was one of the easiest shutouts Hank has ever had). If you think he was "outstanding" in games 2 and 6, than you clearly have a vastly different definition of the word than I do. Outstanding would be putting up two shutouts. Not posting a sub .900 save percentage and playing mediocre goaltending. I won't say he was horrible or bad, but he was laughably far from outstanding. He was mediocre to good, your hyperbole notwithstanding.

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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Rask played like horse **** in game 7 of the first round. Scratch that, he played like horse **** from game 5-7 of the first round. His team picked up the slack when he was blowing it. Our team was incapable of doing that because of the style of play we incorporated. That easily could have been us last year against the Devils. Easily, had we ever had a semblance of offense.
Do you see me disagreeing? Why do you think I blame the team as well as Hank and the coaching? You are the only one incapable of putting blame on a party in this debate.

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If we go back to the Devils series last year the amount of quality chances they had on us was far greater than the quality chances we had on them, despite the shots count. We can rack up 50 shots, doesn't mean any of them are dangerous.
Really? Brodeur played very, very good that series. As a fatso hater, I actually have to give him credit. He robbed us of goals a number of times and outplayed Hank.

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Back to what you were saying. Besides the shut outs Hank wasn't superb? Game 6? He kept the ****ing team in it when they just decided to pack it in. All 18 skaters were just going through the motions, they barely had any intensity the final period and OT. Henrik made some unreal stops during that time period.
If the team decided to pack it in, it wouldn't have put up the shots and wouldn't have had the chances it did. Game 6 was a very tightly contested game where Brodeur, par for the course, outplayed Hank and got his team the win. Now, I am not going to blame Hank for that loss. He played good. Not outstanding, but good. The team also played good. The Devils just had a better performance from Brodeur and rallie around it.

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And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I'm blind that im not blaming Henrik? Why in the world would I place blame on him? Everyone who thinks they can come out and be like "oh people are so blind, henrik is great but he doesn't play up to his vezina caliber for 2-3 games... so he's a big part of the reason we lost" is blind themselves. Are you that ignorant to actually sit and type how he is expendable because he didn't rob 2 wins for us? Is playing up to standards stealing 4 games every series? Cause he seems to do that more than any other goalie on any other team. Disgusting. He is your ****ing team. It's just him that shows up many nights, yet you still sit and complain about him.
Why in the world would you not place any blame on him? If you think he's blameless, than you are truly out of your mind.

------

The funny thing is you think he had an outstanding series. Guess that means you're a true Ranger fan since you think "mediocre" or merely "good" is "outstanding." No wonder Sather is still employed. I'm sure Dolan has the exact same mindset as you do.

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06-08-2013, 02:09 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Enough of this "he didn't earn it" lunacy. He's your TOP prospect. You MUST develop him properly. If he's up in your big club you play him top 9 minutes consistently and you reassure him to BOOST his confidence. If he's not ready you play him top 3 minutes in your AHL affiliate until he is ready and then you give him proper chances to prove himself in the NHL. When Kreider killed it in the NHL he was still only used on the 4th line. Idiotic.
Cool, so everyone has accountability except Kreider because he's a prospect. Got it.

Kreider spent 3/4 of his time in the NHL this year falling on his ass behind our net. He did not warrant a second more of ice time than he received.

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06-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #139
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He was better in the PO's and end of the season, first half I didn't want him on the big club cause of just that reason. he kept falling on his ass and was useless. has to earn it. I'm in the boat of he does need minutes though, but if he screws up too much cut them down or shelter them.

Everyone should be accountable for their role, job. No exceptions for anyone

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06-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #140
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The main issue with Kreider is that Sather bet the farm on him providing secondary scoring. Funny how it all comes down to ****ing Sather and we still have that dolt as our GM.

He bet the entire season on Kreider providing secondary scoring for us. Painfully obvious with the personnel decisions. That worked out greaaaaaaat.

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06-08-2013, 02:39 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I love it - according to Rangers fans it was all in spite of the coach and it's going to be nothing but sunshine and rainbows from here on out.

My question: Who will you blame next year when the team fails to meet your unreasonable expectations?
Brassard. French-Canadians are expected to carry teams to Cups. Any less is a failure

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06-08-2013, 02:48 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The main issue with Kreider is that Sather bet the farm on him providing secondary scoring. Funny how it all comes down to ****ing Sather and we still have that dolt as our GM.

He bet the entire season on Kreider providing secondary scoring for us. Painfully obvious with the personnel decisions. That worked out greaaaaaaat.
Pretty much. I admit I was super high and was hoping he'd pull it together for us. Now we have to make amends. That's the SMART thing... does it mean it happens? oh hell no not here.

It'll take some doing but if these retarded marsupials in the front office actually put together Rangers might look better different instead of crappy different.

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06-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #143
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Pretty much. I admit I was super high and was hoping he'd pull it together for us. Now we have to make amends. That's the SMART thing... does it mean it happens? oh hell no not here.

It'll take some doing but if these retarded marsupials in the front office actually put together Rangers might look better different instead of crappy different.
Come on man! that's an insult ... to marsupials.

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06-08-2013, 03:13 PM
  #144
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Please present a list of forwards on the Rangers who have better offense than those you ridiculed. After Nash and Stepan, who is markedly better?

Crosby and Malkin didn't look very good because of Boston's play. They were fine against the Islanders.

Too many fans think that only their team is on the ice at any given time.
I'd say Callahan is easily better than Dupuis. Keep in mind he was playing with a torn labrum the entire year. Callahan has consistently been on pace for over 20 goals a year since 2008, his first real impact year with no generational center on his line. Dupuis? He's hit the mark of 20 goals or over twice in his career. Aside from this year in a shortened season, and last year on a prolific offensive pittsburgh team, he has NEVER been over even a 20 goal pace. Not to mention Dupuis is 34 and Callahan is 28, and plays with either Malkin or Crosby most of the time.

You don't think Brassard is better than Dupuis either?

That guy is so overrated it's unbelievable.

Hagelin, Brassard and Zuccarello also didn't disappear the second our team's top forwards in Stepan and Nash were shut down. They don't rely on them to produce, they produce themselves. I really don't get why it's so hard for everyone to see and admit that Kunitz and Dupuis rely on Crosby Malkin and Letang to produce offense. It's not huge mindblowing idea.

Also, take defensive core and goaltending into account. Your really think Pittsburgh has the horses back there to match us? Defense wins championships.

You get under Crosby and Malkin's skin a little bit and shut them down, you win. What's so hard to get?

How would you know if we have any offensive talent on the blueline when we have a coach that preaches getting the puck off the glass and out?

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06-08-2013, 03:18 PM
  #145
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I'd say Callahan is easily better than Dupuis. Keep in mind he was playing with a torn labrum the entire year. Callahan has consistently been on pace for over 20 goals a year since 2008, his first real impact year with no generational center on his line. Dupuis? He's hit the mark of 20 goals or over twice in his career. Aside from this year in a shortened season, and last year on a prolific offensive pittsburgh team, he has NEVER been over even a 20 goal pace. Not to mention Dupuis is 34 and Callahan is 28, and plays with either Malkin or Crosby most of the time.

You don't think Brassard is better than Dupuis either?

That guy is so overrated it's unbelievable.

Hagelin, Brassard and Zuccarello also didn't disappear the second our team's top forwards in Stepan and Nash were shut down. They don't rely on them to produce, they produce themselves. I really don't get why it's so hard for everyone to see and admit that Kunitz and Dupuis rely on Crosby Malkin and Letang to produce offense. It's not huge mindblowing idea.

Also, take defensive core and goaltending into account. Your really think Pittsburgh has the horses back there to match us? Defense wins championships.

You get under Crosby and Malkin's skin a little bit and shut them down, you win. What's so hard to get?

How would you know if we have any offensive talent on the blueline when we have a coach that preaches getting the puck off the glass and out?
Don't know.
What i do know is this team can produce more with a more open system rather than dump a lot most of the time.

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06-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #146
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Don't know.
What i do know is this team can produce more with a more open system rather than dump a lot most of the time.
I agree. Yet we have people in here saying our forwards suck, we have no defensemen with any offensive talent, and our team sucks and its all the personnel.

Could we have better players? Yes, but so could every team in the NHL. We need someone that gets the most out of our players. Play to everyones individual strengths. I didn't see that with Torts. That's why I want Dallas Eakins.

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06-08-2013, 03:49 PM
  #147
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You can't possibly be comparing Rask to Lundqvist. Reverse goalies and it's a fair series. Rangers lose, but it's a different game. As much as people appreciate Hank, I don't think they realize just how good he is.
Rask might not be the best goalie in the league, like Lundqvist is, but there aren't many I'd rank above him. He's definitely in the conversation as a top 5 goalie in the league.

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06-08-2013, 03:59 PM
  #148
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There are deficiencies all around this team. From the owner, to the front office, to the coaching staff, to the players.

Out of all the things I just listed, I think the coaching staff is least to blame. And I find it unbelievable that people can look at this roster, from 1-20 any given night, and think they should be mandated to make it past the 2nd round. You wont find many coaches, if any at all, that can turn chicken **** into chicken salad.

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06-08-2013, 03:59 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I love it - according to Rangers fans it was all in spite of the coach and it's going to be nothing but sunshine and rainbows from here on out.

My question: Who will you blame next year when the team fails to meet your unreasonable expectations?
Who's saying that? I've seen the majority of people lay blame on the coach, the GM, and the players.

Maybe it's the people who are saying the coach wasn't at fault it was totally the roster not being good enough that had unreasonable expectations?

After a few weeks at the start of the season expectations started to fall, to the point where I just hoped we would make the playoffs and see what happens. The only thing I wanted and knew could be done once making the playoffs was beating the Caps.

I love how if you're ok with Torts getting fired, or actually somewhat happy with it you're a clueless fanboy. Yet if you aren't ok with it you suddenly get the right to tell other people how invalid their opinions are because they don't agree. Not pointing at you, just saying that seems to be the trend around here lately.

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06-08-2013, 06:40 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The main issue with Kreider is that Sather bet the farm on him providing secondary scoring. Funny how it all comes down to ****ing Sather and we still have that dolt as our GM.

He bet the entire season on Kreider providing secondary scoring for us. Painfully obvious with the personnel decisions. That worked out greaaaaaaat.
I'm sure he also bet on Gabby and Richie not sucking. Sometimes **** doesn't go to plan. I'm not defending Sather. His poor track record speaks for itself. But Sather wasn't the only issue with this team.

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