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Madison Square Garden Renovations (Part V)

View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
Old MSG 79 49.07%
New MSG 82 50.93%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

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05-31-2013, 04:04 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Megustaelhockey View Post
All scoreboard technology, overhead or otherwise, was pretty bad back then. I just hope they don't skimp on this one. I want something like this:

CBJ is beating DET 3-2 with 20:00 left in the first?

But, yeah, I would love that thing.

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05-31-2013, 09:56 PM
  #652
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Mostly concerned about updating the ice plant, for kick ass fast ice.

Because the new coach is going to employ an offensive system that will fit right into it. The plan all along eh Slats?

All joking aside, better ice is needed. Just not sure how good it can actually be considering all of the TRAINS full of people traveling beneath it.

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05-31-2013, 10:00 PM
  #653
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But has the new ice surface ever been confirmed? This is the only place I hear about that.

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05-31-2013, 10:10 PM
  #654
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But has the new ice surface ever been confirmed? This is the only place I hear about that.
Pretty sure it was written about elsewhere previously.

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06-01-2013, 12:39 AM
  #655
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But has the new ice surface ever been confirmed? This is the only place I hear about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandxtreme26 View Post
It's not a rumor - unfortunately, I do not have a link to show this, but our firm has been working with Turner since Phase One and I have been on and off at the site since then. The entire floor is being chopped out, all piping is being replaced, and the entire ice plant is being replaced. It will be a brand new system when all is said and done. If the season ends tonight, work will begin overnight on clearing out Owner Occupied Spaces and the building is turned over to us tomorrow morning. As soon as I can get pictures up this summer, I will.
I don't know if you saw this a few pages back

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06-01-2013, 12:41 AM
  #656
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I don't know if you saw this a few pages back
Oh, cool. Thanks. I remember that user posting pictures from inside the Garden during the off-season, so I'll assume he's legit.

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06-01-2013, 12:48 AM
  #657
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Oh, cool. Thanks. I remember that user posting pictures from inside the Garden during the off-season, so I'll assume he's legit.
Yea I'm excited at the idea of having better ice next season. Should improve the product on the ice. Hopefully its substantially better but it could still be crappy being on the 6th floor.

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06-01-2013, 01:48 AM
  #658
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The new garden has better sight lines. Beyond that it's a disgrace. Concourses are an absolute disaster. Even worse I waited on line for nearly 20 minutes tonight only to be told Carnegie deli was out of corned beef...it was the first freaking intermission!
Agreed. My impressions are that it's beautiful, but when you're actually experiencing a game there, it's not too great. Leg room is a big concern, and so are the concourses which you touched on. And the idiots in the 200s that stand up every time we carry the puck into the offensive zone with speed (save the jokes here) drive me nuts.

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06-09-2013, 06:01 AM
  #659
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scoreboard is gone, anyone seen it getting trucked out onto 33rd street in pieces?

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06-09-2013, 07:41 AM
  #660
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Is that one of the bridges or just a construction platform?


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06-09-2013, 08:11 AM
  #661
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Is that one of the bridges or just a construction platform?

Construction platform. It's too low to be a bridge.

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06-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #662
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Yea I'm excited at the idea of having better ice next season. Should improve the product on the ice. Hopefully its substantially better but it could still be crappy being on the 6th floor.

I always thought that the problem with the Garden ice wasn't so much the ice itself but that the Garden has so many more events that the ice must be covered up for and so little time to prepare afterwards than other arenas.

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06-09-2013, 12:44 PM
  #663
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I always thought that the problem with the Garden ice wasn't so much the ice itself but that the Garden has so many more events that the ice must be covered up for and so little time to prepare afterwards than other arenas.
I always thought that too. the rubber mats and wood and everything messes up the ice.

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06-09-2013, 01:08 PM
  #664
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I always thought that too. the rubber mats and wood and everything messes up the ice.
It's ice. Don't see how rubber mats and wooden planks are messing it up. A once over with a zamboni can straighten that out. It's terrible because it's not on grade. Heck, not only is it not on grade, it's like 5 stories up...and there's a freaking giant train station underneath.

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06-09-2013, 01:31 PM
  #665
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It's ice. Don't see how rubber mats and wooden planks are messing it up. A once over with a zamboni can straighten that out. It's terrible because it's not on grade. Heck, not only is it not on grade, it's like 5 stories up...and there's a freaking giant train station underneath.
Because it's constantly melting and refreezing. And everything placed on top of the ice pollutes it with imperfections making it freeze unevenly and crack, similar to how potholes are formed.

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06-09-2013, 05:43 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
everything placed on top of the ice pollutes it with imperfections making it freeze unevenly and crack
The Zamboni shaves off the top layer before it paints on a fresh layer of water and the blades are adjustable for thickness

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06-09-2013, 06:10 PM
  #667
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The Zamboni shaves off the top layer before it paints on a fresh layer of water and the blades are adjustable for thickness
It has to do just as much w/ the building HVAC and associated building use as much as it does w/ the ice plant.

High resolution photos of the ice do show a high number of cracks/fissures on the ice of MSG. Ice cracking is the result of the ice being "too cold". The ice gets too cold or warm when they are trying to adjust because of the change in building heat/humidity (from people and outside weather).

With constant and varying building use, the ambient air and humidity at MSG changes quite a bit. Beter ice is usually found at single use facilities not because of a superior ice plant system, but a more stable environment that allows few temperature condition fluctuations.

Think of the ice plant as a giant kitchen refrigerator. A typical fridge doesn't stay at 37 degrees, but cycles constantly trying to achieve 37 on average (ex. high of 40, low of 35). A new ice plant system will allow a more efficient and timely temperature cycling to take place beneath the ice, staying closer to the target temp at all times (tighter temperature range).

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06-10-2013, 11:21 PM
  #668
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As a premier ice maintenance technician I can tell you that the wooden rubber has zero effect on the ice because the ice is cooled from the piping undereath (the piping has calcium chloride or glycol running through them which allows the piping run below freezing) imbedded in the concrete floor (or sand floor which are used in smaller rinks) thus the wooden rubber works as an insulator and preserves the ice. The Zamboni takes care of any imperfections as it cuts the top layer of the ice with a blade (adjustable, as mentioned) and lays water on top. The reason why the ice is bad is the placement of the stands, because there are so many people packed in tight it creates a ring of warmth around the ice. I know that there is only three occasions where the ice is being melted. These events are the circus, the bull riding and the dog show. They have to redo the ice each time which actually makes the ice better because it's new ice.

The cracks that you see, is because the ice is settling. Happens mainly to the new ice from the weight of the Zamboni and has zero effect to the actual ice.



e: this from few weeks ago when we redid our ice and were building the ice higher. Happens every time and it's completely normal

http://i.imgur.com/imeT5hq.jpg


Last edited by vstk: 06-11-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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06-11-2013, 12:05 AM
  #669
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It's ice. Don't see how rubber mats and wooden planks are messing it up. A once over with a zamboni can straighten that out. It's terrible because it's not on grade. Heck, not only is it not on grade, it's like 5 stories up...and there's a freaking giant train station underneath.
I thinks it's more to do with the floor and older technology. The ice is actually above the Theatre at MSG which is above the main lobby of the train station. Newer technology and a better insulated floor should help immensely.

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06-11-2013, 02:10 AM
  #670
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What do they do with the old scorebaord?
They should give it to XL Center. They have Staples Center's old Scoreboard, which is a total POS

Anyway, when do we get pictures of these horrendous bridges that are going to ruin my view of cheap 200 seats? And does anyone know if I'd be able to walk up to the bridges platform/Budweiser fan deck and just watch the game? like standing room seats?

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06-11-2013, 08:16 AM
  #671
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All scoreboard technology, overhead or otherwise, was pretty bad back then. I just hope they don't skimp on this one. I want something like this:

I don't think a scoreboard that big would fit in MSG. Rangers and Knicks players would be bumping into it during play

I think MSG is going to get a scoreboard like Staples Center or Rogers Arena. Nothing large like the scoreboards at Bell Centre or Tampa Bay Times Forum.

Sucks I won't be able to see most of the new scoreboard from Sec 227 row 17 after they build those sky bridges.

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06-11-2013, 08:20 AM
  #672
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As a premier ice maintenance technician I can tell you that the wooden rubber has zero effect on the ice because the ice is cooled from the piping undereath (the piping has calcium chloride or glycol running through them which allows the piping run below freezing) imbedded in the concrete floor (or sand floor which are used in smaller rinks) thus the wooden rubber works as an insulator and preserves the ice. The Zamboni takes care of any imperfections as it cuts the top layer of the ice with a blade (adjustable, as mentioned) and lays water on top. The reason why the ice is bad is the placement of the stands, because there are so many people packed in tight it creates a ring of warmth around the ice. I know that there is only three occasions where the ice is being melted. These events are the circus, the bull riding and the dog show. They have to redo the ice each time which actually makes the ice better because it's new ice.

The cracks that you see, is because the ice is settling. Happens mainly to the new ice from the weight of the Zamboni and has zero effect to the actual ice.

e: this from few weeks ago when we redid our ice and were building the ice higher. Happens every time and it's completely normal

good stuff! They should have some sort of cold air venting onto the ice surface during games to maintain temperature

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06-12-2013, 10:44 PM
  #673
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For what it's worth, I met a nice fellow today at the place that I work who claimed that he worked for the in-game media department with the New York Rangers. He had a couple nice bits of information about the renovations.

The new scoreboard is supposedly very nice and resembles the one that is used in Nationwide Arena in Columbus. Four large HD screens with led rings at the top and bottom of the scoreboard that will display in game information as well as animations in between plays.

He also said that there isn't enough room to make the LED ribbon boards behind the net connect around the whole arena, and will instead be installed on the sides of each of the bridges.

He also said they are requesting that an actual goal horn be purchased and installed and they're hoping they have the budget for it or something like that.

Not sure how much in the know this guy really was, but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about, take this information with a grain of salt I suppose.

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06-12-2013, 10:56 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by stcatcs12 View Post
For what it's worth, I met a nice fellow today at the place that I work who claimed that he worked for the in-game media department with the New York Rangers. He had a couple nice bits of information about the renovations.

The new scoreboard is supposedly very nice and resembles the one that is used in Nationwide Arena in Columbus. Four large HD screens with led rings at the top and bottom of the scoreboard that will display in game information as well as animations in between plays.

He also said that there isn't enough room to make the LED ribbon boards behind the net connect around the whole arena, and will instead be installed on the sides of each of the bridges.

He also said they are requesting that an actual goal horn be purchased and installed and they're hoping they have the budget for it or something like that.

Not sure how much in the know this guy really was, but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about, take this information with a grain of salt I suppose.
Well, if what you heard is true, that's pretty cool.

I would like to focus on the bolded portion, however. The challenge here is twofold... first, Kahlenberg or Airchime will happily install any goal horn the Rangers want, but it will be tough to create a sound similar to the "fire engine"-type thing they currently have that leads into the song. What they may end up with is quite samey-same as heard elsewhere in the league, and I think that would be sort of a shame. Second, they'd have to make sure that any horn installed is put in a place that the vibration does not cause physical damage to the building or any electrical equipment.

As for budget, LOL... the Rangers can spend any amount of money on anything.

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06-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #675
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As a premier ice maintenance technician I can tell you that the wooden rubber has zero effect on the ice because the ice is cooled from the piping undereath (the piping has calcium chloride or glycol running through them which allows the piping run below freezing) imbedded in the concrete floor (or sand floor which are used in smaller rinks) thus the wooden rubber works as an insulator and preserves the ice. The Zamboni takes care of any imperfections as it cuts the top layer of the ice with a blade (adjustable, as mentioned) and lays water on top. The reason why the ice is bad is the placement of the stands, because there are so many people packed in tight it creates a ring of warmth around the ice. I know that there is only three occasions where the ice is being melted. These events are the circus, the bull riding and the dog show. They have to redo the ice each time which actually makes the ice better because it's new ice.

The cracks that you see, is because the ice is settling. Happens mainly to the new ice from the weight of the Zamboni and has zero effect to the actual ice.



e: this from few weeks ago when we redid our ice and were building the ice higher. Happens every time and it's completely normal

http://i.imgur.com/imeT5hq.jpg

That's the same with any arena. Do you think that only MSG has fans watching the game?

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