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Gauthier in Hindsight

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06-09-2013, 02:17 PM
  #1
Steve Shutt
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Gauthier in Hindsight

Here's my review of Gauthier's moves as GM:
***** = Solid
**** = Good
*** = Ok
** = Disappointing
* = Ouch


2009-2010

(edit - missed the 09-10 transactions and added them later)

February 11, 2010 - 2nd round pick (Matthew Nieto - San Jose) in 2011 traded to Florida Panthers for Dominic Moore. Florida then traded the pick to San Jose (June 25, 2011)
**** = I like the addition of Moore well before the deadline - he ended up playing 19 playoff games for us. Error might have been in not re-signing him

March 02, 2010 - Matt D'Agostini traded to St. Louis Blues for Aaron Palushaj
** = Dags outperformed Palushaj thus far - perhaps Palushaj will be the better player in the next few years

2010-2011 Montreal Canadiens

June 17, 2010 - Jaroslav Halak traded to St. Louis Blues for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens - GM Pierre Gauthier
**** = I like what Eller brings to the table

June 25, 2010 - 1st round pick (Mark Visentin) in 2010 and a 2nd round pick (Oscar Lindberg) in 2010 traded to Phoenix Coyotes for a 1st round pick (Jarred Tinordi) in 2010 and a 4th Round pick (Mark MacMillan) in 2010
**** = Tinordi looks solid

June 29, 2010 - Sergei Kostitsyn rights and future considerations traded to Nashville Predators for Dan Ellis rights, Dustin Boyd rights and future considerations. Dustin Boyd signed with Montreal (July 01, 2010), Dan Ellis signed with Tampa Bay (July 01, 2010) and Sergei Kostitsyn signed with Nashville (July 06, 2010), negating future considerations
*** = SK had to go. Too bad Ellis didn't stick around

August 16, 2010 - Cedrick Desjardins traded to Tampa Bay Lightning for Karri Ramo
**** = Ramo looks to have more potential at this point

November 11, 2010 - Ryan O'Byrne traded to Colorado Avalanche for Michael Bournival
** = O'Byrne looks better than Bournival thus far

December 28, 2010 - 2nd round pick (Johan Sundstrom) in 2011 and a 4th round pick (TBD) in 2013 traded to New York Islanders for James Wisniewski. The 2nd round pick was NHL compensation for 1st round pick David Fischer not being signed. The 4th round pick in 2013 was originally a 5th round pick in 2012 but was conditional on the Habs owning the pick which was traded to Calgary (January 12, 2012)
*** = Wis looked good here - disappointed we lost him for (edit) next to (edit) nothing but this trade was ok

December 31, 2010 - Maxim Lapierre traded to Anaheim Ducks for Brett Festerling and a 5th Round pick in 2012 (Brian Cooper) which was later traded back to Anaheim for Paul Mara (February 17, 2011)
* = Loosing Laps was a mistake - but the coach might deserve more blame

February 17, 2011 - 5th Round pick (Brian Cooper) in 2012, previously acquired from Anaheim (December 31, 2010) traded back to Anaheim Ducks for Paul Mara
*** = We had injuries and a chance to go for it in the playoffs

February 24, 2011 - Ben Maxwell and a 4th round pick (Josiah Didier - Montreal) in 2011 traded to Atlanta Thrashers (Winnipeg Jets) for Brent Sopel and Nigel Dawes. The 4th round pick (Josiah Didier) was later traded back to Montreal (June 25, 2011)
** = Garbage for Garbage - the 4th hurt

February 28, 2011 - Brett Festerling traded to Atlanta Thrashers for Drew MacIntyre
*** = MacIntyre was worth the risk but he didn't sign-on

June 29, 2011 - James Wisniewski rights traded to Columbus Blue Jackets for a 5th round pick (Charles Hudon) in 2012 as a result of him signing with Columbus
*** = Glad we got something for Wiz - too bad we couldn't have resigned him or moved him before the deadline

June 25, 2011 - 3rd round pick (Brennan Serville) in 2011 traded to Winnipeg Jets for a 4th round pick (Josiah Didier) in 2011, originally acquired from Montreal (February 24, 2011) and a 4th round pick (Olivier Archambault) in 2011
*** = 3rd for two 4ths is a good bet with Timmins

2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens

July 07, 2011 - Ryan Russell traded to Columbus Blue Jackets for Mike Blunden
*** = Blunden > Russell

July 15, 2011 - Mathieu Carle traded to Anaheim Ducks for Mark Mitera
*** = Garbage for Garbage

October 23, 2011 - Brock Trotter and a 7th round pick (Marek Langhamer) in 2012 traded to Phoenix Coyotes for Petteri Nokelainen and Garrett Stafford
*** = Garbage for Garbage - but at least Noks helped for a bit

December 09, 2011 - Jaroslav Spacek traded to the Carolina Hurricanes for Tomas Kaberle
* = This one hurt from a salary perspective. Thought it was a good move at the time - still seems like Kabs never got a real chance in Mtl by his coaches. In the end this move hurt our cap situation

January 12, 2012 - Michael Cammalleri, rights to Karri Ramo and their own 5th round pick (Ryan Culkin) in 2012 traded to Calgary Flames for Rene Bourque, Patrick Holland and a 2nd round pick (TBD) in 2013
**** = Camm's salary hurt. I like the early 2nd and Bourque

February 17, 2012 - Hal Gill and a conditional 5th round pick (TBD) in 2013 which was later traded back to Montreal (February 27, 2012) traded to Nashville Predators for Blake Geoffrion, Robert Slaney and a 2nd round pick (Dalton Thrower) in 2012
**** = I like the 2nd. Too bad BG got hurt

February 27, 2012 - Andrei Kostitsyn traded to Nashville Predators for a 2nd round pick (TBD) in 2013 and a 5th round pick (TBD) in 2013 which was previously acquired from Montreal (February 17, 2012) and later traded to Los Angeles Kings (April 02, 2013)
**** = HAppy with the early 2nd

Overall
***** = 0
**** = 7
*** = 9
** = 3
* = 2

I think PG's reputation is worst than what his actual track record shows.


Last edited by Steve Shutt: 06-09-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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Old
06-09-2013, 02:24 PM
  #2
BrimStone64
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We got a pick back on Wisniewski.

Gauthier ran team into a circus here

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06-09-2013, 02:24 PM
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Agreed.

I like MB, but Gauthier wasn't nearly that bad. He did alot of good, and left us with a great situation, especially the foresight to get those 2 high 2nd rounder in this draft....

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06-09-2013, 02:46 PM
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habs03
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A bunch of "meh" moves, issue was he wasn't a social guy and no leadership, not meant to be a GM, best suited for a role like Ast GM or Director of Player Personnel, which is his role with the Hawks now.

He was so anti media that the second the Habs sucked, they went nuts on him, in some cases even making things a bigger deal than it actually was, ex when he would trade players, he would tell them that they would be traded, so they don't find out threw the media, but couldn't tell them where until it was official with the league office, funny how media made a big media circus about it when the Habs struggled not but we never heard of this when the team was doing well the year before.


Edit: most of his moves are very debatable but I have to see that he did a good job in getting guys a little early before the trade deadline, we got Wiz around a month and half before the trade deadline, and actually paid less than what other dmen where going for at the deadline ex Kaberle, and Wiz actually had the most points after getting traded for a dmen that year.

He did the same thing with Moore, got him way before the trade deadline.


Last edited by habs03: 06-09-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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06-09-2013, 02:49 PM
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I agree, but his personnel moves are a little bit worst though.

The guy get a bad rep, because of his personnality and how he's acting in front of a camera.

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06-09-2013, 02:56 PM
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Add signing Emelin, Diaz, and Cole to his plus column.

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06-09-2013, 03:03 PM
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Forsead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Add signing Emelin, Diaz, and Cole to his plus column.
he also got Moore and Sopel.

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06-09-2013, 03:16 PM
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NORiculous
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How about his coach management?

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Old
06-09-2013, 03:26 PM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORiculous View Post
How about his coach management?
Weird, he didn't exactly hire Martin so it's tough, and never really had a chance to replace him until that last year, but what's weird is what happened with Boucher and Kirk Muller, when Guy left for Tampa, I got the sense that Kirk would have took a job with the Bulldogs, but seemed like Gauthier wasn't a big fan of him and let him leave, I thought losing Kirk was a big mistake, but I gotta say he hasn't been doing that well as a head coach.

I still think that Gauthier would be on of a few ppl that would not care about media says about hiring a none French speaking coach.

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06-09-2013, 03:30 PM
  #10
overlords
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
he also got Moore and Sopel.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Sopel was a plus.

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06-09-2013, 03:33 PM
  #11
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Don't ever give that ******* an ounce of credit.

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06-09-2013, 03:35 PM
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The Russian General
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In the end, the problem was the mentality he instilled in the club, plus how he fired people, treated people, etc. The Habs looked bush league.

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06-09-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I agree, but his personnel moves are a little bit worst though.

The guy get a bad rep, because of his personnality and how he's acting in front of a camera.
Which is silly.

Who cares about his personality? And leadership? From a GM? To lead who, the players? That's the coaches job...

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06-09-2013, 03:41 PM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Which is silly.

Who cares about his personality? And leadership? From a GM? To lead who, the players? That's the coaches job...
Well a GM is in the public eye a lot, he is pretty much the figure head of the team, specially in Mtl seeing how the GM is also the Vice President.

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06-09-2013, 03:49 PM
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Hank Scorpio
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Less about what he did, more about how he went about doing it.

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06-09-2013, 04:05 PM
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Guilliam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
August 16, 2010 - Cedrick Desjardins traded to Tampa Bay Lightning for Karri Ramo
** = Ramo looks to have more potential at this point

November 11, 2010 - Ryan O'Byrne traded to Colorado Avalanche for Michael Bournival
** = O'Byrne looks better than Bournival thus far
I fail to see how Desjardins for Ramo is a disappointing move if you admit Ramo has more potential than Desjardins

Also O'byrne looking better than Bournival is debatable. O'byrne is the same player we had, no better no worse which is a #6 D. Bournival is still growing and looks to be AT LEAST a Tom Pyatt type. Anyway, like I said it's debatable, but I for one am still happy with this trade.

This being said, good post. Thanks for doing this it does put things in perspective. I think that Gauthier was so distant and unlikeable that any move of his got assessed with more negativity thant they actually deserved. By opposition, a personable and likeable guy like Bergevin will probably have a longer leash than Gauthier in the public and the media's eyes.


Last edited by Guilliam: 06-09-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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06-09-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I wouldn't go as far as saying Sopel was a plus.
No, but it was a move he made that the OP didn't listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Which is silly.

Who cares about his personality? And leadership? From a GM? To lead who, the players? That's the coaches job...
I agree and that's what I thought at the time he was here, or Gainey, but I now realize that his personnality and how he did his moves created a pretty bad atmosphere within the team that had a negative influence on the ice IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
In the end, the problem was the mentality he instilled in the club, plus how he fired people, treated people, etc. The Habs looked bush league.
Exactly.

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06-09-2013, 04:19 PM
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Expectations are that low nowadays...So Moore and Cole were pluses yet lasted 1 year. But then let's praise Gauthier 'cause we send Kosty and Gill for 2nd rounders...but let's forget we also got rid of a 2nd for 1-year of Moore? Keep Moore and then it makes sense. To not keep him while serviceable for the playoffs was plain stupid. OP should have also added a category....meh trades. How Festerling for McIntyre fits in the Okay category is just incredible especially since you use that stars system to show how not bad Gauthier finally was.

1 3rd for 2 4th is a good bet for Timmins....well it depens of the year don't you think? If the 3rd's isn't called Serville but let say Pageau...is it still a good deal? I mean not using that 3rd made us lose Pageau..... Then 4 stars for Blunden vs Russell...seriously? Okay so if he "wins" a trade no matter how important he wins...this trade is in the same category than the Halak trade? And you also can't use a player we know we drafted as a proof that the trade was great but then mentions later on that getting 2 4th for 1 3rd makes sense. So the trade getting us Tinordi was great...but then we gave up a 2nd while only getting back a 4th....wouldn't keeping a 1st and a 2nd be better for Timmins? If I use your logic? Or let say Timmins ****ed up and doesn't get us great 2nd rounders in the upcoming draft.....was trading Kosty and Gill a mistake then? Of course not. So let's be consequent here. How is the SKostitsyn an okay trade? 'Cause he HAD TO GO? But didn't he had 1 50 points and 1 43 points while the guys we had got....what again? But even if he has to go...we had to rid of him for nothing?

You are a good GM when you have results and change for quite a good period of time the face of the team. When he was here, he got us Eller, Bourque and some great 2nd rounders in a great draft. So we should really put him in the "he wasn't that bad" category? Fine if you compare him to the beer vendor that was Houle. But clearly not good enough for the GM of the Montreal Canadiens. Add the freak show and how he turned that franchise into a laughing stock while he was here, and like you said for Sergei Kostitsyn...."he HAD to go".....But I guess, the possibility that Gauthier could be now a Stanley Cup Champion makes him so great right now. He has surely made a ton of contribution to this winning team....

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06-09-2013, 04:24 PM
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Topic so redundant, evaluation so bad. Taking small impact trades and assigning 4 stars to them is just a way to prop up the reputation of this useless bag of 99 percent water.


Last edited by Agnostic: 06-09-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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06-09-2013, 04:25 PM
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WhiskeySeven
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I defended his hockey moves (which individually were fine) but in all honesty from Houle to Gauthier we've had the same myopic management in place.

I feel the same about Bergevin so far (DD extension + Bouillon signing/extension) but his reign is still young.

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06-09-2013, 04:41 PM
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Not good with the players or staff but a very good hockey man. He really didnt make any moves that made you say ``WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT``. Although last year was really disappointing he left us in a good spot IMO.

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06-09-2013, 04:41 PM
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Steve Shutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
I fail to see how Desjardins for Ramo is a disappointing move if you admit Ramo has more potential than Desjardins
In my head I was thinking we got Desjardins and gave away Ramo - forgot it was the other way around. I've edited my original ranking in the OP

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06-09-2013, 04:43 PM
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Watsatheo
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At the end of the day, it all depends on your expectations from a GM. The lower they are, the better Gauthier's and Gainey's regime looks. I guess that's what happens when a fanbase is deprived of having an actual contending team for so many years...mediocrity is crowned for gold.

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06-09-2013, 04:44 PM
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Steve Shutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post

Also O'byrne looking better than Bournival is debatable. O'byrne is the same player we had, no better no worse which is a #6 D. Bournival is still growing and looks to be AT LEAST a Tom Pyatt type. Anyway, like I said it's debatable, but I for one am still happy with this trade.
I think Bournival might end up better but at this point O'byrne is in the NHL and Bournival is still in the AHL. Need a few more years to properly assess this one

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06-09-2013, 04:46 PM
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Steve Shutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
No, but it was a move he made that the OP didn't listed.
February 24, 2011 - Ben Maxwell and a 4th round pick (Josiah Didier - Montreal) in 2011 traded to Atlanta Thrashers (Winnipeg Jets) for Brent Sopel and Nigel Dawes. The 4th round pick (Josiah Didier) was later traded back to Montreal (June 25, 2011)
** = Garbage for Garbage - the 4th hurt

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