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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
06-09-2013, 04:42 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yeah, we can't score goals when it matters the most.. but we need a 3rd line center with our 1st round pick.
We can't hold leads when it matters most..perhaps adding some more defensive minded players will help that issue...the size doesnt hurt either.....who would your 1st round pick be out of curiosity?

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06-09-2013, 04:48 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
We can't hold leads when it matters most..perhaps adding some more defensive minded players will help that issue...the size doesnt hurt either.....who would your 1st round pick be out of curiosity?
McCoshen or Mueller on D
Rychel, Erne, Hartman, McCarron or Burakowsky up front.

Mostly interested in trading down to get 2 2nd round picks instead.

I took Burakowsky in the mock, he'd be the guy I am most interested in.

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06-09-2013, 05:09 PM
  #678
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Who said Dauphin is small? He's 6 feet tall. Skinny, perhaps, but his frame is good enough.

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06-09-2013, 05:13 PM
  #679
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I don't see the team moving down. If anything, from what Timmins has said in interviews, they are much more likely to move up.

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06-09-2013, 05:28 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I don't see the team moving down. If anything, from what Timmins has said in interviews, they are much more likely to move up.
Only if the guy they like is falling.. I can only assume it is Horvat.. Hopefully he goes early so we avoid the mistake.

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06-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I don't see the team moving down. If anything, from what Timmins has said in interviews, they are much more likely to move up.
How can we move down anyway? You need at least 2 great picks to move down. in this great draft, there is NO way I trade my 1st for a 1st and 3rd. It has to be 1st and 2nd. Like it usually is anyway. So our only choice is with the Ducks. But that's only for 1 pick...will they do it? Their 1st and their 2nd at 45 for our 1st to just move up one spot? If they are really afraid they'll lose their guy....sure they'll do it. So let's hope Timmins and Co will know who they are targetting. If not, we are talking about the Sabres....Our 1st for their 2 2nd's. Making them have 3 1st....Do we want that amongst our own division. In such a year?

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06-09-2013, 05:30 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Only if the guy they like is falling.. I can only assume it is Horvat.. Hopefully he goes early so we avoid the mistake.
If Timmins and the scouting staff believe in a guy that much in a strong draft, I have no problem with it.

I doubt the Habs are going to lose out on some Hall of Famer if they trade one of the early 2nds. Still have two 2nds and two 3rds with a trade. I see no issue.

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06-09-2013, 05:59 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How can we move down anyway? You need at least 2 great picks to move down. in this great draft, there is NO way I trade my 1st for a 1st and 3rd. It has to be 1st and 2nd. Like it usually is anyway. So our only choice is with the Ducks. But that's only for 1 pick...will they do it? Their 1st and their 2nd at 45 for our 1st to just move up one spot? If they are really afraid they'll lose their guy....sure they'll do it. So let's hope Timmins and Co will know who they are targetting. If not, we are talking about the Sabres....Our 1st for their 2 2nd's. Making them have 3 1st....Do we want that amongst our own division. In such a year?
Dallas will have 29 or 30 (it better be 29). They have a pair of 2nds too, so there's a possibility.

And I agree with Sean, I have no issues with trading up for someone worth trading up for. I love these 2nds, but you can't assume they are surefire stars either.

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06-09-2013, 06:07 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Dallas will have 29 or 30 (it better be 29). They have a pair of 2nds too, so there's a possibility.

And I agree with Sean, I have no issues with trading up for someone worth trading up for. I love these 2nds, but you can't assume they are surefire stars either.
True. I missed the Stars. One more possibility. I have no problem with that. Well as far as trading up, it really depends who for. Honestly, I like Horvat....I do. But there are also no guarantees that he'll end up a better player than some 2nds out there. If you move up for Zadorov....are we REALLY that convinced he's going to be better than McCoshen? Even Mueller? I know, differenty types of players maybe. But a big tough guy that sees his ceiling stop at #5 might not be what we need in a 1st round. This draft is great....but the top 10 stays a top 10. There is still a gap after. What makes this draft so great is that while there's a gap after the star players, is that maybe from 15 to 45, any players could be picked there. The next level is so much filled with talent compared to the other years when there are gaps after gaps after gaps more rapidly.

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06-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #685
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About trading up, Timmins said this year deep draft make it cheaper to trade up because later round picks have more value.

Saying this in interview does'nt mean Habs will trade up, just means trading up is easier to do this year and they will trade up IF........

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06-09-2013, 06:22 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
McCoshen or Mueller on D
Rychel, Erne, Hartman, McCarron or Burakowsky up front.

Mostly interested in trading down to get 2 2nd round picks instead.

I took Burakowsky in the mock, he'd be the guy I am most interested in.
Everything I've read about Burakowsky has been tremendously positive, and his supposed skillset seems like a great fit (big sniper). But I can't find any tape of him, and I don't really remember him from any of the international tourny's. Can you break him down a bit if you're familiar with him?

Also not a fan of Hartman at 25 at all. I see him strictly as a 3rd liner, and he's undersized to boot.

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06-09-2013, 06:40 PM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How can we move down anyway? You need at least 2 great picks to move down. in this great draft, there is NO way I trade my 1st for a 1st and 3rd. It has to be 1st and 2nd. Like it usually is anyway. So our only choice is with the Ducks. But that's only for 1 pick...will they do it? Their 1st and their 2nd at 45 for our 1st to just move up one spot? If they are really afraid they'll lose their guy....sure they'll do it. So let's hope Timmins and Co will know who they are targetting. If not, we are talking about the Sabres....Our 1st for their 2 2nd's. Making them have 3 1st....Do we want that amongst our own division. In such a year?
I'm talking about moving out of the 1st round all together. Realistically if MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Nurse, Nichuskin, Lazar, Horvat, Mueller, Shinkaruk, Wennberg, Domi, Zykov, Gauthier, Mantha, Morin, Hartman, Fucale, Erne, Morrissey, Burakowsky are all gone before our pick, do you take McCarron or McCoshen there? Or do you take the hope that they are both there for your 2nds and add two more in a meaty portion of the draft with lots of (local) talent available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
If Timmins and the scouting staff believe in a guy that much in a strong draft, I have no problem with it.

I doubt the Habs are going to lose out on some Hall of Famer if they trade one of the early 2nds. Still have two 2nds and two 3rds with a trade. I see no issue.
It depends on the cost to move up. If it's costing more than a single 2nd round pick, I'm not for doing it and I'm not giving up the 32 our 34. Those are essentially 1st round picks in this draft. 25 + 55 that's it, but that won't get us to Horvat and so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Dallas will have 29 or 30 (it better be 29). They have a pair of 2nds too, so there's a possibility.

And I agree with Sean, I have no issues with trading up for someone worth trading up for. I love these 2nds, but you can't assume they are surefire stars either.
No, they might not be sure fire stars but who we are trading up for aren't necessarily sure-fire stars either. I mean, I love Tinordi and all, but part of me feels we would have been better served to stay where we were and keep our 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
True. I missed the Stars. One more possibility. I have no problem with that. Well as far as trading up, it really depends who for. Honestly, I like Horvat....I do. But there are also no guarantees that he'll end up a better player than some 2nds out there. If you move up for Zadorov....are we REALLY that convinced he's going to be better than McCoshen? Even Mueller? I know, differenty types of players maybe. But a big tough guy that sees his ceiling stop at #5 might not be what we need in a 1st round. This draft is great....but the top 10 stays a top 10. There is still a gap after. What makes this draft so great is that while there's a gap after the star players, is that maybe from 15 to 45, any players could be picked there. The next level is so much filled with talent compared to the other years when there are gaps after gaps after gaps more rapidly.
I rate McCoshen and Mueller higher than Zadorov in my rankings. Zadorov really fell in my eyes when I got to see him consistently at the Memorial Cup instead of a few scattered views during the season.

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Originally Posted by niftymove View Post
About trading up, Timmins said this year deep draft make it cheaper to trade up because later round picks have more value.

Saying this in interview does'nt mean Habs will trade up, just means trading up is easier to do this year and they will trade up IF........
Maybe, but teams in the middle portion of the draft, they are the ones who decide the price.. Timmins might think it is cheap and realize, it really isn't.

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Everything I've read about Burakowsky has been tremendously positive, and his supposed skillset seems like a great fit (big sniper). But I can't find any tape of him, and I don't really remember him from any of the international tourny's. Can you break him down a bit if you're familiar with him?

Also not a fan of Hartman at 25 at all. I see him strictly as a 3rd liner, and he's undersized to boot.
Hartman can be a Ryan Callahan type player. He brings it all every night. It's not a sexy pick but you've got a warrior. Won't wow you with a lot of offense but he does all the little things at 25, I'm okay with it.

Here's my write-up for Burakowsky when I selected him for the Habs in the mock:
"Andre Burakowsky is a skilled winger from Sweden with nice size to go along with his skill. While he does not throw his weight around, he does not shy from the traffic areas and will go to the boards or the front of the net. His skating (speed, agility and acceleration) allow him to be a threat. To go along with his quick feet, Burakowsky has an excellent pair of hands, able to deke and gain the zone and get off a quick, hard and accurate shot. If Burakowsky can put all the tools together and learn to trust his teammates more, he could be a game breaking talent on the wing at the NHL level."

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06-09-2013, 06:59 PM
  #688
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Here's my write-up for Burakowsky when I selected him for the Habs in the mock:
"Andre Burakowsky is a skilled winger from Sweden with nice size to go along with his skill. While he does not throw his weight around, he does not shy from the traffic areas and will go to the boards or the front of the net. His skating (speed, agility and acceleration) allow him to be a threat. To go along with his quick feet, Burakowsky has an excellent pair of hands, able to deke and gain the zone and get off a quick, hard and accurate shot. If Burakowsky can put all the tools together and learn to trust his teammates more, he could be a game breaking talent on the wing at the NHL level."
Nice. Right now I got him as my 16th ranked forward.

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06-09-2013, 07:10 PM
  #689
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I'm talking about moving out of the 1st round all together. Realistically if MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Nurse, Nichuskin, Lazar, Horvat, Mueller, Shinkaruk, Wennberg, Domi, Zykov, Gauthier, Mantha, Morin, Hartman, Fucale, Erne, Morrissey, Burakowsky are all gone before our pick, do you take McCarron or McCoshen there? Or do you take the hope that they are both there for your 2nds and add two more in a meaty portion of the draft with lots of (local) talent available.
Catastrophe scenario is that you then move down....and lose Poirier and Dauphin. Habs aren't interested in Carrier. Honestly, in a year where the local talent is there and important, as much as I would love to add 2nd rounders and get other than Q players....I don't believe it will be a popular and wise decision. And going for Roy instead won't cut it. Depending where you go...you might even lose McCarron and McCoshen....All about who is out there. I mean this year, we will have to be quite fast on the computer as our thinking will adjust from pick to pick.

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06-09-2013, 07:13 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm talking about moving out of the 1st round all together. Realistically if MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Nurse, Nichuskin, Lazar, Horvat, Mueller, Shinkaruk, Wennberg, Domi, Zykov, Gauthier, Mantha, Morin, Hartman, Fucale, Erne, Morrissey, Burakowsky are all gone before our pick, do you take McCarron or McCoshen there? Or do you take the hope that they are both there for your 2nds and add two more in a meaty portion of the draft with lots of (local) talent available.
You take Zadorov and run.

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06-09-2013, 07:16 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by niftymove View Post
About trading up, Timmins said this year deep draft make it cheaper to trade up because later round picks have more value.

Saying this in interview does'nt mean Habs will trade up, just means trading up is easier to do this year and they will trade up IF........
Yes, "if". But IIRC, he mentioned this on two different occasions, and he never mentioned anything about trading down.

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06-09-2013, 07:18 PM
  #692
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If we don't pick fucale or McCarron I am happy, hartman burakowsky, morin, and mantha are the. Guys I want in montreal.

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06-09-2013, 07:22 PM
  #693
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You have to think that Burakowsky will be gone. But Buchnevich? I'd bet on him to be there and be our pick.

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06-09-2013, 07:26 PM
  #694
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True. I missed the Stars. One more possibility. I have no problem with that. Well as far as trading up, it really depends who for. Honestly, I like Horvat....I do. But there are also no guarantees that he'll end up a better player than some 2nds out there. If you move up for Zadorov....are we REALLY that convinced he's going to be better than McCoshen? Even Mueller? I know, differenty types of players maybe. But a big tough guy that sees his ceiling stop at #5 might not be what we need in a 1st round. This draft is great....but the top 10 stays a top 10. There is still a gap after. What makes this draft so great is that while there's a gap after the star players, is that maybe from 15 to 45, any players could be picked there. The next level is so much filled with talent compared to the other years when there are gaps after gaps after gaps more rapidly.
I wouldn't move up for Zadorov. Like WTK, I liked him less and less the more I saw him. Serious doubts about whether he can process the game at a top 4 NHL D level.

Wennberg, Horvat, Domi, Shinkaruk and Erne. Maybe Lazar. Those would be my trade up targets in our position. The odds 1 makes it to 25 are low.

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06-09-2013, 07:34 PM
  #695
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I wouldn't move up for Zadorov. Like WTK, I liked him less and less the more I saw him. Serious doubts about whether he can process the game at a top 4 NHL D level.

Wennberg, Horvat, Domi, Shinkaruk and Erne. Maybe Lazar. Those would be my trade up targets in our position. The odds 1 makes it to 25 are low.
Wennberg? Totally. Shinkaruk? Absolutely. Domi, Erne and Lazar...enough to move up and lose 1 2nd...I don't know. Not saying no....I just don't know.

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06-09-2013, 07:35 PM
  #696
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Everyone has his own opinion but sorry I just don't see it. I just find his hockey IQ and vision not good enough to allow him to be someday a Top 3D in the NHL. However, I can see him becoming a Dman in the mold of Gorges, only bigger. Also, I wouldn't say that Tinordi is/was a GREAT skater for his size. A good skater sure but great? I don't think so. A great skater for a Dman of his size would be more like Bouwmeester, Pronger, Myers, etc.
Tinordi can easily be on a top pairing with Subban. He has TONS of room to improve. I was shocked at how good he was with the puck. I think he has decent offensive upside but nothing truly amazing. Maybe Hamrlik like production when he was with us?

He has a good head on his shoulders too. I think he can be a future captain. I'm surprised at how some undervalue him. I think he's going to be a tremendous D man.

What you describe is Tinordi's absolute basement IMO. That's how high I value him. Like you said opinions differ and I'm not attacking you. I can see where you're coming from but I think its all about how much room you see he can improve. Big young D men like him have so much room to improve. Just like Pronger and Chara did.

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06-09-2013, 07:37 PM
  #697
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About Burakowski, looks like there is no consensus among scouts about him. Many rank him around 15-20, but some see him sliding.

Worst case his Craig Button who was not already a fan of him. He sees him sliding from 39 to 58 in his final ranking.....of course, it is Button.

Some extract from a scouting report:

''Andre really jumped out to us at 2012 World U17 Challenge and we saw a player with a great deal of potential. Unfortunately since then he hasn’t quite reached that level of play in our viewings.
Andre displays very good playmaking ability. He is creative with the puck and makes his would like to see him get stronger but the concern seems to be with the consistency in which he shows these skills.
While he’s a well rounded player, there have been too many instances where he simply did not show up to games or was invisible for long stretches. The potential is there but the consistency needs to follow for Andre to truly reach his potential.''

I would'nt be surprised if he slided to 2th round this year, a bit like Collberg last year. Stats and storyline are very similar. Sure, Bura is taller than Collberg (6'1 vs 5'11), but he is competing against a deeper draft this year.

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06-09-2013, 07:43 PM
  #698
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Yes, "if". But IIRC, he mentioned this on two different occasions, and he never mentioned anything about trading down.
All depends on how the draft plays out, but you could always trade both up and down.

Hypothetically, Montreal trades the 25th and say our 2nd rounder, 55th, to move up six spots to 19th overall, where Columbus sits. I don’t know why, but let’s just say there is a player there they want.

Then shop the 36th overall for a couple more 2nds. Say the 36th overall to San Jose for the 49th and 58th overall.

For the day you would then end up with:

19th overall
34th overall
49th overall
58th overall

<shrug> Or something like that. Whatever you think fair value is. Point being you don't have to lock yourself into only going up or down. You can, as the Scarecrow once said, go both ways.


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06-09-2013, 07:51 PM
  #699
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Combines that with good foot speed and a father who played in the NFL as a linebacker. The more I read about him and the more I got to see him play, the more I liked him. He's #34 or #36 for me.
More at 55th selection IMO. A lot of teams seem to have him rated in the third round. At 34th and 36th you take the guys who're falling from the first round.

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06-09-2013, 07:53 PM
  #700
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