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Gauthier in Hindsight

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Old
06-09-2013, 05:49 PM
  #26
Andy
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Old
06-09-2013, 05:51 PM
  #27
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
At the end of the day, it all depends on your expectations from a GM. The lower they are, the better Gauthier's and Gainey's regime looks. I guess that's what happens when a fanbase is deprived of having an actual contending team for so many years...mediocrity is crowned for gold.
You read that report and it's actually 15 moves positive. 4 negative. Wow...how the heck did we let go such a genius?

I guess that this report should have been preceeded with "In the context or mediocre management we had in the past 20 years, Gauthier wasn't the worst. Then, I would have agreed...but not because HE was great.....

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Old
06-09-2013, 05:58 PM
  #28
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
And what was the purpose of this?

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Old
06-09-2013, 05:58 PM
  #29
Steve Shutt
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Expectations are that low nowadays...So Moore and Cole were pluses yet lasted 1 year.
Missed his first two moves including Moore - I'll add them to the OP.
I don't have FA signings listed - website I used didn't have them but agree they should be part of any assessment


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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How Festerling for McIntyre fits in the Okay category is just incredible especially since you use that stars system to show how not bad Gauthier finally was.
Would you rather have Festerling or McIntyre? They both seem pretty useless to me hence my ok rating

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
1 3rd for 2 4th is a good bet for Timmins....well it depens of the year don't you think? If the 3rd's isn't called Serville but let say Pageau...is it still a good deal? I mean not using that 3rd made us lose Pageau.....
Just saying I think two 4ths for a 3rd is not a bad trade, hence my okay rating

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Then 4 stars for Blunden vs Russell...seriously?
I would rather have Blundern than Russell hence my rating of a good trade

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Okay so if he "wins" a trade no matter how important he wins...this trade is in the same category than the Halak trade?
I'm sure a more refined system could provide a better assessment of each trade - just providing a very simple and humble opinion - did not intend to offend the hockey gods.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How is the SKostitsyn an okay trade? 'Cause he HAD TO GO? But didn't he had 1 50 points and 1 43 points while the guys we had got....what again? But even if he has to go...we had to rid of him for nothing?
I dont think too many veteran GM's could have got much value for SK after his benchings and montreal fans ready to run him out of town. under the circumstances I thought we were lucky to get anything at all.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:01 PM
  #30
Andy
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
And what was the purpose of this?

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:04 PM
  #31
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
I'm sure a more refined system could provide a better assessment of each trade - just providing a very simple and humble opinion - did not intend to offend the hockey gods.
Give your opinion. Just like I do on any subject. But as I learned from the time I'm here, prepare to be criticized. Don,t think it's a fair evaluation. That's all. But if it's your opinion, hey fine with me. My opinion is that you can't judge his moves by that system. You can't have the same evaluation of the Blunded-Russell trade than a Halak-Eller trade. I wasn't exactly thrilled by the trade but in the end, Gauthier might have given us this organization a great centerman for the next 10 years to come. So again, how's that comparable to a spare part, makes no sense. Read your own report. You have 15 okay to great comments and only 4 negative. With that report, it would have make NO sense to fire a GM like that. And frankly, it was the way to go. You judge a GM through his SIGNIFICANT deals. Not the Bluden vs Russell types....

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06-09-2013, 06:08 PM
  #32
Steve Shutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Give your opinion. Just like I do on any subject. But as I learned from the time I'm here, prepare to be criticized. Don,t think it's a fair evaluation. That's all. But if it's your opinion, hey fine with me. My opinion is that you can't judge his moves by that system. You can't have the same evaluation of the Blunded-Russell trade than a Halak-Eller trade. I wasn't exactly thrilled by the trade but in the end, Gauthier might have given us this organization a great centerman for the next 10 years to come. So again, how's that comparable to a spare part, makes no sense. Read your own report. You have 15 okay to great comments and only 4 negative. With that report, it would have make NO sense to fire a GM like that. And frankly, it was the way to go. You judge a GM through his SIGNIFICANT deals. Not the Bluden vs Russell types....
That's fair - I'll redo the OP and rank the Blunden / Russell deal as Ok. Realistically neither guy is great even though I prefer Blunden

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:15 PM
  #33
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
That's fair - I'll redo the OP and rank the Blunden / Russell deal as Ok. Realistically neither guy is great even though I prefer Blunden
I mean, stick with your idea. We'll just agree to disagree big time. But no need to change it as in th end, it still shows that Gauthier was 15-4 in the positive record. Which is to me the biggest problem. You should have had an inconsequential (is that a word?) column. But yet, that's how I see it....not you. And you made the thread. So stick with your idea. Just that you will have people not agreeing. But then you also had people agreeing so....to each their own.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:16 PM
  #34
Steve Shutt
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Here's a list of his free agent signings:

September 7, 2010 Signed C Jeff Halpern to a one-year contract.
August 2, 2010 Signed D Alexandre Picard to a one-year contract.
July 21, 2010 Signed G Cedrick Desjardins and F Ryan Russell to one-year contracts.
July 16, 2010 Signed F David Desharnais to a one-year contract.
July 1, 2010 Signed G Curtis Sanford and D Frederic St.-Denis to one-year contracts.
August 15, 2011 Signed D Jeff Woywitka to a one-year contract.
July 15, 2011 Signed D Frederic St-Denis to a one-year contract.
July 8, 2011 Signed F Brian Willsie to a one-year contract.
July 5, 2011 Signed G Peter Delmas to a three-year contract.
July 4, 2011 Signed F Brock Trotter to a one-year contract.
July 1, 2011 Signed F Erik Cole to a four-year contract and G Peter Budaj to a two-year contract.

Not positive all of these guys were FA's. I like the Cole, Budaj, and Halpern signings - everything else was Meh.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I mean, stick with your idea. We'll just agree to disagree big time. But no need to change it as in th end, it still shows that Gauthier was 15-4 in the positive record. Which is to me the biggest problem. You should have had an inconsequential (is that a word?) column. But yet, that's how I see it....not you. And you made the thread. So stick with your idea. Just that you will have people not agreeing. But then you also had people agreeing so....to each their own.
Inconsequential column is the *** which I called ok

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:27 PM
  #36
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
Inconsequential column is the *** which I called ok
Perhaps you need an inconsequential category for those moves.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:29 PM
  #37
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Team was terrible under Gauthier...can't see how anybody can try to hide that?

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Topic so redundant, evaluation so bad. Taking small impact trades and assigning 4 stars to them is just a way to prop up the reputation of this useless bag of 99 percent water.
Would that be potable water or the slimy, toxic, swamp fluid that floats in the St. Laurent?

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:42 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
[...]
I think PG's reputation is worst than what his actual track record shows.
shocking.

the few of us that have known this are being cast as either loving mediocrity or loving enemas so strong they give you concussions, im not sure which...

dont get me wrong though, the guy was an irene-sized cluster**** and should never be allowed to get anywhere near a management position again. but oh no , i have to process two different and slightly divergent train of thoughts... gauthier handled human like minefields. that bad yeh?

final result: decent on paper, apocalyptic-tastic otherwise

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06-09-2013, 06:43 PM
  #40
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Gauthier wasn't bad as a deal maker or whatever. He had bad moves but he just didn't seem like a leader. There was so much drama about the way he went about things. He'd hide from media and the fans. We rarely heard of his vision, to this day I have no idea what it is. The way he traded players or fired coaches. His apparent rules for players...

There's a lot more little things that just make you feel off but at end of the day he was ridiculously average. He was just a guy who held the spot and did nothing special. Never defended his players or the coach who he threw under the bus. Nothing. He was just...there in his office I guess. It's unsettling. He's not a terrible person or whatever like some suggest but it was painful. Being average with an average builder at best. It was incredibly frustrating.

The guy is an assistant GM. That's what he is. He's prob a decent one but he's not a GM IMO. We'll see if he EVER gets another GM job.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:45 PM
  #41
Steve Shutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Team was terrible under Gauthier...can't see how anybody can try to hide that?
Under Gauthier
2009-2010 14-8-4
2010-2011 44-30-5
2011-2012 31-35-4
============
Total = 89-73-13

I wouldn't call that terrible

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:47 PM
  #42
SouthernHab
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I give him a ranking of ****.

Not the 4 characters that you used ****.

I use the word that rhymes with "spit" and appears like this (****) when you type it.

Do we really need another thread about Gauthier on this board?

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:50 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
And what was the purpose of this?
Andy was (and apparently still is) the biggest fan of Gauthier.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:53 PM
  #44
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I give him a ranking of ****.

Not the 4 characters that you used ****.

I use the word that rhymes with "spit" and appears like this (****) when you type it.

Do we really need another thread about Gauthier on this board?
Brilliant.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:59 PM
  #45
hockeyfan2k11
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"Habs fans are the smartest fans in hockey"

I'm really not too sure about that.

Gauthier was terrible.

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Old
06-09-2013, 08:04 PM
  #46
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The moves he made, from a purely hockey perspective, were not that bad.

For example, Habs should have tanked the 2008/09 season when it was obvious that the team was going nowhere. Not from the start, but at some point, around February it was clear that injuries and off-ice issues were screwing us. Gainey decided to go all in, for purely PR reasons. My feeling is that Gauthier would have been a seller at the 2008/09 deadline. Habs would be much better now if that ever happened.

A similar scenario happens last year and Gauthier basically tanked in a timely fashion, what everybody around here support.

On the other hand, his handling of all the communication aspect was simply horrible. As some said, a good scout/micro-manager, but not a GM.

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Old
06-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #47
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I maintain that Blunden for Ryan Russel was a steal.

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06-09-2013, 08:47 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I maintain that Blunden for Ryan Russel was a steal.
And what did that steal consist of exactly? A journeyman NHLer who's destined to be a 13th forward during his whole career, to me, doesn't qualify as a steal...

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06-09-2013, 09:26 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by didjuicythat View Post
And what did that steal consist of exactly? A journeyman NHLer who's destined to be a 13th forward during his whole career, to me, doesn't qualify as a steal...
April 2003 join date and you're still new as ****.

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Old
06-09-2013, 10:03 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You read that report and it's actually 15 moves positive. 4 negative. Wow...how the heck did we let go such a genius?

I guess that this report should have been preceeded with "In the context or mediocre management we had in the past 20 years, Gauthier wasn't the worst. Then, I would have agreed...but not because HE was great.....
I agree that we should ignore all the meh trades his two big trades were the Halak and Cammalleri ones. I think he came out pretty good with both of those.

Besides those he gave some picks away for players that were here for a short period of time but played well for us, but then re-aquired equivalent/better picks so overall that's a positive as well.

I don't think anyone considers his tenure great but it wasn't bad either. At the end of the day his best decision was probably throwing in the towel on the 2012 season and it cost him his job.

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