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Jake Gardiner for 7th overall pick (EDM)

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Old
06-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #76
Dr Danglefest
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Probably the last 2 fan bases that should be negotiating a trade with each other....both have their head in the clouds when it comes to prospects...it's crazy how quickly things escalate here. I wish I could see what this discussion would look like in real life

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06-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #77
Duffman955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
This thread isn't about Gagner or JVR, no idea why people keep derailing it.

Start a poll if you think its needed.


Sorry got sidetracked.

Anyways. I think you guys should just keep the pick and draft Monahan.

A big two-way center would help the Oilers moving forward.

The leafs should just keep Gardiner. He seems to have the makings of a top pairing Dman.

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06-09-2013, 05:02 PM
  #78
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I don't think Gardiner will ever be the player he's being pimped up to be. If I'm the Oilers, I keep my 7th overall and don't think twice about it.

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06-09-2013, 05:06 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Which tools does Gardiner lack that all top pairing guys have?
Defensively he is not strong. Most top pairing guys have either really solid defensive ability, really strong offensive (like Karlsson good) or somewhere in the middle of both.

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06-09-2013, 05:09 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Defensively he is not strong. Most top pairing guys have either really solid defensive ability, really strong offensive (like Karlsson good) or somewhere in the middle of both.
He's 22.

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06-09-2013, 05:15 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
That's not Taylor Hall + 7th overall, though. He just said "draft pick", could be a 7th rounder. Fairly large difference.
Point taken. I still find it hard to imagine turning the offer down but to each his own. From an Oiler perspective though, there would be a riot if MacT made that deal.

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06-09-2013, 05:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
He's 22.
And not yet a top pair d-man. He may be. But he isn`t.

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06-09-2013, 05:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
And not yet a top pair d-man. He may be. But he isn`t.
Eventually I meant. May be eventually.

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06-09-2013, 05:18 PM
  #84
Duffman955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Defensively he is not strong. Most top pairing guys have either really solid defensive ability, really strong offensive (like Karlsson good) or somewhere in the middle of both.
What do you mean "Karsson good"? There is only one Karlsson, no one else is close to that good offensively.

I just think Gardiner has potential to be as good as a Keith Yandle, and play similar minutes/style.

Of course he hasn't reached that level yet, but has the tools and has shown glimpses of putting it together.

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06-09-2013, 05:20 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
He's 22.
Yeh I know, Im not expecting him to be a Weber, but even at 22 you can see glaring holes in his defensive game, ofcourse he will improve them, but to what degree.

Its funny that people get angry because Im not willing to call Gardiner the next great thing. Hell be good, but not much better than any player drafted in the top 10 will be

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06-09-2013, 05:21 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Yeh I know, Im not expecting him to be a Weber, but even at 22 you can see glaring holes in his defensive game, ofcourse he will improve them, but to what degree.

Its funny that people get angry because Im not willing to call Gardiner the next great thing. Hell be good, but not much better than any player drafted in the top 10 will be
Good enough for me.


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06-09-2013, 05:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
What do you mean "Karsson good"? There is only one Karlsson, no one else is close to that good offensively.

I just think Gardiner has potential to be as good as a Keith Yandle, and play similar minutes/style.

Of course he hasn't reached that level yet, but has the tools and has shown glimpses of putting it together.
Because if it said "good offensively" id be swarmed with gardiners rookie stats, he put up good numbers, but if you want to play top pairing minutes relying on offense, they have to be great numbers.

I also think that if everything goes right and he puts it all together his upside will similar to Yandle.

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06-09-2013, 05:26 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
JVR is a power forward who is effective on the PK and in front of the net. His net front presence creates a lot of goals that he doesn't get assists on. Also he is a monster playoffs performer.

Gagner on the other hand is a small center who doesn't bring much to a team besides points.

You may like gagner more, but I'm pretty sure the leafs would rather keep JVR and not think twice.
Again, the only reason this got sidetracked to a JVR/Gagner debate is because of the one-sided analysis of some Leaf fans like yourself. In your assessment JVR is effective on the PK but Gagner is a small center who doesn't bring much to a team besides points, yet Gagner played more on the penalty kill than JVR, as well as setting up two game winners short handed (Leafs had 1 shorty all year and JVR wasn't in on it).

I'd probably take JVR over Gagner based on our need for size but I think both are pretty close in terms of player value. The way you describe it though, Gagner should be thankful he's in the league while JVR should buy a bigger trophy case

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06-09-2013, 05:26 PM
  #89
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The Leafs shouldn't even consider trading Gardiner until it's clear that Rielly is ready to play top 4 minutes at the NHL level. Toronto is a team on the way up which put up a very respectable performance against Boston - why trade key players from that run for draft picks and non-roster prospects?

Regardless of value, this type of deal makes zero sense for Toronto.

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06-09-2013, 05:27 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Because if it said "good offensively" id be swarmed with gardiners rookie stats, he put up good numbers, but if you want to play top pairing minutes relying on offense, they have to be great numbers.

I also think that if everything goes right and he puts it all together his upside will similar to Yandle.
Well this is agreed.

Now we will have to discuss who is available at #7 overall pick, his potential and his likelihood of reaching the potential.

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06-09-2013, 05:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Well this is agreed.

Now we will have to discuss who is available at #7 overall pick, his potential and his likelihood of reaching the potential.
Well likely Monahan or Lindholm, different positions, different needs. Oilers need a big 2 way center with skill to. He fills the needs for the Oilers more than a young offensive D.

For a team like Philly it may be totally the other way around if they were at 7

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06-09-2013, 05:48 PM
  #92
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It really seems like Gardiner's got Karlsson Syndrome. Just because he's a skating pmd doesn't automatically make him bad defensively. The whole point of having him on the ice is that you won't have to be defending when he skates the puck out of your zone. Even ignoring that, he took the body plenty in the Boston series, had several takeaways, and didn't look out of place defending against strong players like Jagr. Considering he's only 22 and already showed glimpses of a capable defensive game, I can't see how it's a concern going forward. Keep in mind he was a winger until a few years ago, experience playing D is going to pay huge dividends in the next couple seasons.

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06-09-2013, 06:01 PM
  #93
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Wait i don't get something. Oiler fans want to draft a second line center because Gagner isnt good enough but then they go and shop him around to other teams saying that hes good and has a lot of potential lol... Like wtf, If you guys think hes so good why not just keep him and draft a D that you need most???

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06-09-2013, 06:11 PM
  #94
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Two things I would trade Gardiner for: Monahan or Couturier. Both C with potential for good scoring but even if they don't realize that, strong defensive players so they could well end up as 1B type C that help in numerous ways. Other than that, I'd keep him because he and Reilly will be dynamite for getting out of the zone, which was one of the biggest problems against Boston.

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06-09-2013, 06:12 PM
  #95
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No. Gardiner isn't for trade and Edmonton needs more certainty in a trade that involves their 7th pick.

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06-09-2013, 06:13 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
Wait i don't get something. Oiler fans want to draft a second line center because Gagner isnt good enough but then they go and shop him around to other teams saying that hes good and has a lot of potential lol... Like wtf, If you guys think hes so good why not just keep him and draft a D that you need most???
To be fair, Gagner has been the poster boy for Edmonton's recent failures. Cogliano has been great for Anaheim, the Oilers couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Losing makes everyone look bad and you should know this as a Leafs fan.

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06-09-2013, 06:16 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
Wait i don't get something. Oiler fans want to draft a second line center because Gagner isnt good enough but then they go and shop him around to other teams saying that hes good and has a lot of potential lol... Like wtf, If you guys think hes so good why not just keep him and draft a D that you need most???
Short of a few Oilers fans with an agenda against him, most are content starting next year with him as our 2nd line C. But we do need to add size up front for it to make sense to keep him as our 2C. Seriously though, what team doesn't continually look for depth or upgrades down the middle except for Pittsburgh? Hell, even they drafted Staal despite already having Malkin and Crosby in the fold. We'd be looking to draft Monahan as a potential upgrade at 2C somewhere down the road, not to immediately replace Gagner.

Also, D is not our most pressing need as we have a high end prospect in Klefbom as well as promising prospects in Marincin, Musil and Gernat. The guys that are available at 7 (Nurse, Ristolainen, Zadorov) would be a reach and aren't any closer to being NHL ready than the 4 I mentioned. None of those guys are BPA at 7.

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06-09-2013, 06:19 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
Wait i don't get something. Oiler fans want to draft a second line center because Gagner isnt good enough but then they go and shop him around to other teams saying that hes good and has a lot of potential lol... Like wtf, If you guys think hes so good why not just keep him and draft a D that you need most???
Gagner is good enough. But for our team needs, a bigger second line center would be much better. It has nothing to do with how good Gagner is, we just need more size.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:20 PM
  #99
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I'd think long and hard about it, that's forsure.
I would be thoroughly disappointed if the Oilers made this deal.

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #100
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It's interesting. I think I'd do it if Monahan or Lindholm are still on the board, which I imagine one of them will be.

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