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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #701
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My Current Top 40

TOP 40

FORWARDS
1. MacKinnon
2. Drouin
3. Nichushkin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan
7. Horvat
8. Wennberg
9. Lazar
10. Domi
11. Mantha
12. Zykov
13. Shinkaruk
14. Rychel
15. Erne
16. Burakowsky
17. Gauthier
18. Buchnevich

19. Dickinson
20. Petan
21. Klimchuk
22. Poirier
23. Hartman
24. McCarron
25. de la Rose

DEFENCE
1. Jones
2. Ristolainen
3. Nurse
4. Zadorov
5. Pulock
6. Bowey
7. Morrisey
8. Morin

9. Santini
10. Hagg
11. Mueller
12. McCoshen
13. Heatherington
14. Theodore

GOALIE
1. Fucale


Last edited by hogtownhabsfan*: 06-09-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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Old
06-09-2013, 07:18 PM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Wennberg? Totally. Shinkaruk? Absolutely. Domi, Erne and Lazar...enough to move up and lose 1 2nd...I don't know. Not saying no....I just don't know.
I'm not surprised on your Domi stance, I think he's a legit offensive stud, you haven't been as convinced from what I've read...

On Erne and Lazar, I think it depends on who is left at a certain point of the draft.

Right now, on my list, 24th is Mantha and 25th is Rychel.

I'm not too comfortable with that.

If it's the 19th pick of the draft...Erne and/or Lazar are still there...and let's say so are Morrissey, Mueller and Pulock, along with Mantha and Rychel...I think it's worth it to trade up to get Erne or Lazar. I'd try to get back a 3rd or a 4th if trading up required moving 34 or 36 though.

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06-09-2013, 08:05 PM
  #703
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My order is a bit different:

FORWARDS:
1. MacKinnon
2. Lindholm
3. Barkov
4. Nichushkin
5. Drouin
6. Monahan
7. Horvat
8. Wennberg
9. Domi
10. Zykov
11. Shinkaruk
12. Lazar
13. Dickinson
14. Poirier
15. Burakowsky
16. Buchnevich
17. McCarron
18. Petan
19. Rychel
20. Erne
21. Gauthier
22. Mantha
23. Hartman
24. Dauphin
25. Klimchuk

DEFENCE
1. Jones
2. Nurse
3. Pulock
4. Ristolainen
5. Zadorov
6. Morrisey
7. Bowey
8. Santini
9. Morin
10. Mueller
11. McCoshen
12. Heatherington
13. Theodore
14. Hagg

GOALIE.
1. Fucale

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06-09-2013, 08:09 PM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
My order is a bit different:

FORWARDS:
1. MacKinnon
2. Lindholm
3. Barkov
4. Nichushkin
5. Drouin
6. Monahan
7. Horvat
8. Wennberg
9. Domi
10. Zykov
11. Shinkaruk
12. Lazar
13. Dickinson
14. Poirier
15. Burakowsky
16. Buchnevich
17. McCarron
18. Petan
19. Rychel
20. Erne
21. Gauthier
22. Mantha
23. Hartman
24. Dauphin
25. Klimchuk

DEFENCE
1. Jones
2. Nurse
3. Pulock
4. Ristolainen
5. Zadorov
6. Morrisey
6. Bowey
7. Santini
8. Morin
9. Mueller
10.
11. McCoshen
12. Heatherington
13. Theodore
14. Hagg

GOALIE.
1. Fucale
I too am a huge fan of Lindholm, but if I were to make a list he'd be #4. Behind Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov.

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06-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #705
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Quality is better then Quantity, but in draft you can never be 100% sure of quality and in a draft this wide open I would rather not lose a pick to move up, some team might be more than willing to trade down and our two 2nd round will basically be just as good as our 1st round or atleast pretty much same chance of making a impact or play in the NHL.

Barakowsky, Klimchuck, Del la rose, Dauphin, Buchnevich, Erne, Dickinson, Bailey, Bastiste, Dano, Poirier, Laplante, McCarron, Hartman
Bowey, Morin, Santini, Hagg, Mueller, Morrisey,McCoshen

Looking at the guy that could fall to us + the guys that no one expect will be there...
I would not trade any of our 2 round pick unless it was a significat move up

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06-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
Quality is better then Quantity, but in draft you can never be 100% sure of quality and in a draft this wide open I would rather not lose a pick to move up, some team might be more than willing to trade down and our two 2nd round will basically be just as good as our 1st round or atleast pretty much same chance of making a impact or play in the NHL.

Barakowsky, Klimchuck, Del la rose, Dauphin, Buchnevich, Erne, Dickinson, Bailey, Bastiste, Dano, Poirier, Laplante, McCarron, Hartman
Bowey, Morin, Santini, Hagg, Mueller, Morrisey,McCoshen

Looking at the guy that could fall to us + the guys that no one expect will be there...
I would not trade any of our 2 round pick unless it was a significat move up
Completely agree with you, I read some posters, and I wonder if they understand the luxury we have with our 4 top 60 picks, and 6 top 90 picks, in a draft so deep... would love to get some more picks, there's too many interesting prospects...

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06-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Completely agree with you, I read some posters, and I wonder if they understand the luxury we have with our 4 top 60 picks, and 6 top 90 picks, in a draft so deep... would love to get some more picks, there's too many interesting prospects...
I understand that luxury of having all those picks, but I also like the idea of grabbing a player touted as a possible top 15 pick with high upside and low bust potential. While at 25/early 2nd, if the draft plays out a certain way, you could get stuck with a player who has high upside, but also high bust potential. Or just limited/safe upside.

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06-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
Quality is better then Quantity, but in draft you can never be 100% sure of quality and in a draft this wide open I would rather not lose a pick to move up, some team might be more than willing to trade down and our two 2nd round will basically be just as good as our 1st round or atleast pretty much same chance of making a impact or play in the NHL.

Barakowsky, Klimchuck, Del la rose, Dauphin, Buchnevich, Erne, Dickinson, Bailey, Bastiste, Dano, Poirier, Laplante, McCarron, Hartman
Bowey, Morin, Santini, Hagg, Mueller, Morrisey,McCoshen

Looking at the guy that could fall to us + the guys that no one expect will be there...
I would not trade any of our 2 round pick unless it was a significat move up
Yeah like Craig Button said, we basically have 3 1st rounders.

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Old
06-09-2013, 08:43 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Completely agree with you, I read some posters, and I wonder if they understand the luxury we have with our 4 top 60 picks, and 6 top 90 picks, in a draft so deep... would love to get some more picks, there's too many interesting prospects...
I am only interested in moving our two third round picks. Preferably, we used #71 and #55 to get up into the forties. Unless there is someone like Burakowsky at 25, I wouldn't mind moving back and gain another 2nd rounder. The. Use our two thirds with our two later seco des to move up in the second round. Basically giving us 3 picks from 30-40 and two picks from 40-50.

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06-09-2013, 09:00 PM
  #710
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I can't believe how greedy people are on this board.We have virtually 3 first round picks and they want to move up or down and acquire more picks. I , for one, think we should stay put.

Moving up or down can only be a losing proposition once the draft is over and pundits start playing the blame game. Remember , sometimes your best moves re the ones you don't make.

I know there will be fallers this year, just like every year. This will change the dynamics of the draft. There may be a "run" on defensemen, or forwards allowing a player the Habs targeted to fall to 25.
Personally I would love a run on defensemen which would allow some forward, which we need, to drop to us. Wennberg,Erne, Mantha and Gauthier would be possibilities in this scenario.

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06-09-2013, 09:02 PM
  #711
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With a draft this deep, and with little difference in players of a certain range, our perception of the draft order will be harder to follow because some team will prefer lower ranked players, and that ranking now have about 40 players more or less ranked in the first round. That makes it very easy for players to fall, and I would not be surprised to see players just forgotten and inexplicably fall.

I am prepared for anything, and hope we can take advantage of this, because at our picks targeting players will be irrelevent, since we are in position to catch whatever surprise might fall.

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Old
06-09-2013, 09:30 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I understand that luxury of having all those picks, but I also like the idea of grabbing a player touted as a possible top 15 pick with high upside and low bust potential. While at 25/early 2nd, if the draft plays out a certain way, you could get stuck with a player who has high upside, but also high bust potential. Or just limited/safe upside.
The only sure bets to me IMO are MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan & Ristolainen. I'd add Nichuskin if he wasn't Russian. After that, you've got the guys with good upside but there's no way of knowing how their development will go.

I don't consider Bo Horvat a sure thing and I don't think his potential is tremendously high, he has very good upside, but I don't think he has "can't miss" upside.

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06-09-2013, 09:35 PM
  #713
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We don't have much depth in the goalie spot in Hamilton, so how would you guys rate Fucale and Desrosiers? Who would be the better fit in Montreal?

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06-09-2013, 09:36 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDN View Post
We don't have much depth in the goalie spot in Hamilton, so how would you guys rate Fucale and Desrosiers? Who would be the better fit in Montreal?
Desrosiers makes more sense, considering he will be picked later on in the draft

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Old
06-09-2013, 09:41 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDN View Post
We don't have much depth in the goalie spot in Hamilton, so how would you guys rate Fucale and Desrosiers? Who would be the better fit in Montreal?
I don't consider Fucale for Montreal unless he somehow miraculously fell to #55 (basically impossible). I don't consider any goalie before that pick.

As far as goalies for Montreal to select, here is my rankings (Fucale is not on the list)

1. Tristan Jarry
2. Eric Comrie
3. Calvin Petersen
4. Phillippe Desrosiers
5. Marcus Hogberg
6. Antoine Bibeau
7. Patrik Bartosak
8. Fredrik Bergvik
9. Spencer Martin
10. Eamon McAdam.

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06-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I don't consider Fucale for Montreal unless he somehow miraculously fell to #55 (basically impossible). I don't consider any goalie before that pick.

As far as goalies for Montreal to select, here is my rankings (Fucale is not on the list)

1. Tristan Jarry
2. Eric Comrie
3. Calvin Petersen
4. Phillippe Desrosiers
5. Marcus Hogberg
6. Antoine Bibeau
7. Patrik Bartosak
8. Fredrik Bergvik
9. Spencer Martin
10. Eamon McAdam.
Good list. Not concentrated that much on goalies though somehow guys I'd be more tempted to go with would be Jarry, Desrosiers, Bibeau and Bergvik. But the others are fine with me.

And I will agree with you that at best, I start my goalie search with our last pick at 55. Somehow.....I doubt that this is what going to happen.

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06-09-2013, 09:50 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Good list. Not concentrated that much on goalies though somehow guys I'd be more tempted to go with would be Jarry, Desrosiers, Bibeau and Bergvik. But the others are fine with me.

And I will agree with you that at best, I start my goalie search with our last pick at 55. Somehow.....I doubt that this is what going to happen.
I'd be happy to take one of the Q guys, especially Bibeau, I think he might be less safe than Desroisiers but higher upside. If we get them, I can make sure to catch their games in Halifax and give detailed reports on their progress, weaknesses and strengths.

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06-09-2013, 10:14 PM
  #718
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Looking at Grant's new rankings, from 3 days ago:

Quote:
Here is my top 30 as of today.....

1. Seth Jones
Nathan MacKinnon
Jonathan Drouin
Sasha Barkov
Elias Lindholm
Valery Nichushkin
Sean Monahan
Darnell Nurse
Max Domi
Bo Horvat

Alexander Wennberg
Curtis Lazar
Mirco Mueller
Samuel Morin
Nikita Zadorov
Rasmus Ristolainen
Ryan Pulock
Joshua Morrissey
Michael McCarron
Frederik Gauthier


Hunter Shinkaruk
Ryan Hartman
Ian McCoshen
Adam Erne
Kerby Rychel
Anthony Mantha
Zachary Fucale
Andre Burakowsky
Robert Hagg
Tommy Vanelli
Probably the only list out there that has McCarron ahead of Shinkaruk.

I know Grant doesn't need anyone to form an opinion on players, but, by the same token, he's also well-connected and in regular contact with talent evaluators of all stripes. Wondering if his McCarron and Shinkaruk assessments are a reflection of current, shall we say, "market trends", for lack of a better term. Perhaps this is what some or several of the scouting depts. out there, are also actually thinking, independently of Grant.

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06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
  #719
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How can we move down anyway? You need at least 2 great picks to move down. in this great draft, there is NO way I trade my 1st for a 1st and 3rd. It has to be 1st and 2nd. Like it usually is anyway. So our only choice is with the Ducks. But that's only for 1 pick...will they do it? Their 1st and their 2nd at 45 for our 1st to just move up one spot? If they are really afraid they'll lose their guy....sure they'll do it. So let's hope Timmins and Co will know who they are targetting. If not, we are talking about the Sabres....Our 1st for their 2 2nd's. Making them have 3 1st....Do we want that amongst our own division. In such a year?
You grab two 2nd rounders for a late first, Detroit has done that in the past a few times I believe. If the guys the Habs target are not there and they think the guys they want will be there there further in the draft, why not?

They did that in 2011. They traded their pick to the leafs, who selected Biggs. With the 2nd rounders, the Wings got Ouellet and Jurco.

I believe a few teams have extra 2nd rounders this draft.

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06-09-2013, 11:04 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by wally weir View Post
I can't believe how greedy people are on this board.We have virtually 3 first round picks and they want to move up or down and acquire more picks. I , for one, think we should stay put.

Moving up or down can only be a losing proposition once the draft is over and pundits start playing the blame game. Remember , sometimes your best moves re the ones you don't make.

I know there will be fallers this year, just like every year. This will change the dynamics of the draft. There may be a "run" on defensemen, or forwards allowing a player the Habs targeted to fall to 25.
Personally I would love a run on defensemen which would allow some forward, which we need, to drop to us. Wennberg,Erne, Mantha and Gauthier would be possibilities in this scenario.
Why is it greedy to want a player that Timmins might have in his Top 10?

Best draft since 2003 they say. That's awesome. How about you look at the players selected 34th and 36th in that draft. Hell, I'll do it for you. Mike Egener and Vojtech Polak.

Would you rather have Anthony Stewart (25th), Egener (34th) and Polak (36th), or Parise (17th) and Polak?

Now obviously these are two different scenarios, but we have one of the best drafters at the helm in Timmins. If he really likes a guy and wants to move up, then by all means. I prefer quality over quantity. I feel the Habs did well in quantity last draft. With this many picks in the Top 90 they should consider moving up. This isn't like moving up in 2010 and losing any shot at a decent player in the 2nd round. You still have two shots (34/36 and 55) as well as an early shot in the 3rd round. People here act like it would be the end of the world. The Habs are in a great position to bargain.

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Old
06-09-2013, 11:07 PM
  #721
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Draft Pick Value Chart

Apperntly based on some mathematical formula (stole off the caps board): http://statsportsconsulting.com/main...Draftchart.pdf

According to this, 25 and 55 could get us pick 13. I'd do it. I wouldn't even need to know who went 1-12.

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06-09-2013, 11:07 PM
  #722
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You grab two 2nd rounders for a late first, Detroit has done that in the past a few times I believe. If the guys the Habs target are not there and they think the guys they want will be there there further in the draft, why not?

They did that in 2011. They traded their pick to the leafs, who selected Biggs. With the 2nd rounders, the Wings got Ouellet and Jurco.

I believe a few teams have extra 2nd rounders this draft.
I'd want to do the opposite, trade our last 2 2nd rounders for a late 1st round pick.

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06-09-2013, 11:16 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Apperntly based on some mathematical formula (stole off the caps board): http://statsportsconsulting.com/main...Draftchart.pdf

According to this, 25 and 55 could get us pick 13. I'd do it. I wouldn't even need to know who went 1-12.
That formula is flawed. Apparently picks 25, 34, 36 and 55 would give the Habs Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon. I highly doubt that would ever be accepted.

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06-09-2013, 11:50 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Now obviously these are two different scenarios, but we have one of the best drafters at the helm in Timmins. If he really likes a guy and wants to move up, then by all means. I prefer quality over quantity. I feel the Habs did well in quantity last draft. With this many picks in the Top 90 they should consider moving up. This isn't like moving up in 2010 and losing any shot at a decent player in the 2nd round. You still have two shots (34/36 and 55) as well as an early shot in the 3rd round. People here act like it would be the end of the world. The Habs are in a great position to bargain.
I'll also add:

- This isn't a football team where you are building a roster with 20+ positions that are either important or fairly important and every 2nd and 3rd round draft pick is so crucial as a result...at the end of the day, there are probably 7 or 8 forwards, 4 (maybe 5) defencemen and 1 goalie on a team that are truly key players. 12-14 players out of a 20-23 man roster. The rest of the roster is sort of interchangeable and generally can be acquired every year in FA or via trade. If you have a chance to move up using a 2nd rounder to get a player who has a strong chance to be a difference maker or a very good player, someone who would fit in that 12-14 ''key players'' on a team group, you have to consider it when you are starting the draft with our current picks.

- We know Timmins can get talent out of the mid-later rounds, losing a 2nd to move up in round 1 would not hurt as much if he can pull another Gallagher out of his hat in the late rounds.

- Our team, especially the core, is extremely young for the most part. This isn't some aging group of veterans that will need to be replaced within 2 years and every high pick is beyond crucial as a result.

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06-10-2013, 12:25 AM
  #725
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We don't have much depth in the goalie spot in Hamilton, so how would you guys rate Fucale and Desrosiers? Who would be the better fit in Montreal?
You don't make entry draft selections with minor league depth charts in mind.

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