HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-10-2013, 12:05 AM
  #426
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
All your ideas are terrible.
Not winning a cup for another 35 years is bad as well.
Ignoring defensive woes will lead to years of heartbreak.
Followed by a complete team rebuild.

DecadesofFutility is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 12:11 AM
  #427
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not winning a cup for another 35 years is bad as well.
Ignoring defensive woes will lead to years of heartbreak.
Followed by a complete team rebuild.
Well I don't think Snider has another 35 years in him so we should be good.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 12:19 AM
  #428
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not winning a cup for another 35 years is bad as well.
Ignoring defensive woes will lead to years of heartbreak.
Followed by a complete team rebuild.
Gutting the team's core to trade for Dmen leads to a complete rebuild too, you know.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 07:51 AM
  #429
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,234
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not winning a cup for another 35 years is bad as well.
Ignoring defensive woes will lead to years of heartbreak.
Followed by a complete team rebuild.
You want what you can't have, and you're willing to pay top dollar to get a second-rate substitute for it. It's a mediocre hockey decision at best, and terrible asset management no matter what. It's a bad idea.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #430
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Gutting the team's core to trade for Dmen leads to a complete rebuild too, you know.
IMHO, a rebuild was inevitable, once Pronger was injured.
Timmonen is getting close to retirement we need to rebuild it.

Only problem was our GM rebuilt the Center position after
the Richards & Carter trades instead of the defense.
Now he will have to trade depth (maybe even those centers) to rectify his mistake.

DecadesofFutility is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 10:34 AM
  #431
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
IMHO, a rebuild was inevitable, once Pronger was injured.
Timmonen is getting close to retirement we need to rebuild it.

Only problem was our GM rebuilt the Center position after
the Richards & Carter trades instead of the defense.
Now he will have to trade depth (maybe even those centers) to rectify his mistake.
Pronger was still healthy and our defense was adequate when the Carter and Richards trades happened.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #432
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
IMHO, a rebuild was inevitable, once Pronger was injured.
Timmonen is getting close to retirement we need to rebuild it.

Only problem was our GM rebuilt the Center position after
the Richards & Carter trades instead of the defense.
Now he will have to trade depth (maybe even those centers) to rectify his mistake.
And then he'll have to trade who-knows-what to rectify the mistake of overpaying for whatever Dmen GMs are willing to trade.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #433
flyershockey
Registered User
 
flyershockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
IMHO, a rebuild was inevitable, once Pronger was injured.
Timmonen is getting close to retirement we need to rebuild it.

Only problem was our GM rebuilt the Center position after
the Richards & Carter trades instead of the defense.
Now he will have to trade depth (maybe even those centers) to rectify his mistake.
The center depth was rebuilt with the trades because it had to be. I'm sure Homer kicked the tires on getting Voynov versus Simmonds, but L.A. may not have been willing.

The defense isn't that far away either. Take out Mez and add a puckmover, and you have a pretty damn balanced unit.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #434
FreshPerspective
Ed finally concedes!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The center depth was rebuilt with the trades because it had to be. I'm sure Homer kicked the tires on getting Voynov versus Simmonds, but L.A. may not have been willing.

The defense isn't that far away either. Take out Mez and add a puckmover, and you have a pretty damn balanced unit.
Ironically as I mentioned in another thread..Holmgren could have drafted one of Voynov or Carlson if he didn't trade that late first rounder for Eminger!

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #435
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,833
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Ironically as I mentioned in another thread..Holmgren could have drafted one of Voynov or Carlson if he didn't trade that late first rounder for Eminger!
He also could have drafted someone completely different. Say he made a bad trade is fine, but to make assumptions about who they would have picked is pointless.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #436
RJ8812*
Hellooooo ladiiiies
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Ironically as I mentioned in another thread..Holmgren could have drafted one of Voynov or Carlson if he didn't trade that late first rounder for Eminger!
please don't mention that trade

worst trade Homer has ever made

RJ8812* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #437
FreshPerspective
Ed finally concedes!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He also could have drafted someone completely different. Say he made a bad trade is fine, but to make assumptions about who they would have picked is pointless.
Yes and no. Holmgren's logic was mixed with that trade. He felt that a lower end 1st round pick was not as valuable as getting a player that had some experience under his belt and was still young like Eminger was. Also didn't help that Eminger looked good against the Flyers in the playoffs. The right handed shot thing probably also factored in. In short, if you add some context Holmgren wasn't completely off his rocker necessarily with the trade at the time (although I was livid) but it turned out to be a debacle. Stuff like that happens but again if you add some more context to it you can say that the Flyers focus on acquiring more NHL ready D men rather than developing them came back to bite them hard big time that draft.

Also, if the Flyers are so great with drafting as many of us typically claim on these boards, it's not out of the question that they would have picked up either one of those guys at that spot considering that they were looking to stock up on D men that year (as the Eminger trade also confirmed) and the Sbisa pick earlier in the draft who we subsequently traded for Pronger.

I've always been curious as to where the scouting staff had either of those guys ranked if they had retained that pick. Heck wonder where they had Henrique ranked and to a lesser extent Markstrom....

Obviously, they would know if Holmgren's gross miscalc with Eminger wouldn't have really mattered much....

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 03:45 PM
  #438
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The center depth was rebuilt with the trades because it had to be. I'm sure Homer kicked the tires on getting Voynov versus Simmonds, but L.A. may not have been willing.

The defense isn't that far away either. Take out Mez and add a puckmover, and you have a pretty damn balanced unit.
I would prefer 2 PMD not just one.
Timmonen is going to retire and then we only have Gus.
If we do not get 2 PMD, we will be looking for another one next year.

DecadesofFutility is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 03:57 PM
  #439
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Pronger was still healthy and our defense was adequate when the Carter and Richards trades happened.
An adequate defense. And your content with that ???
Holmer should have put some picks into the defense then,
the team would be looking at good defense, now.

We would be years closer to our own premier defenseman.
Instead of looking for a bargain on the FA or RFA market.

DecadesofFutility is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:08 PM
  #440
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
An adequate defense. And your content with that ???
Holmer should have put some picks into the defense then,
the team would be looking at good defense, now.

We would be years closer to our own premier defenseman.
Instead of looking for a bargain on the FA or RFA market.
Uhm going back to that time when we had a healthy Pronger and Meszaros, yes it was.

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Lilja

With the exception of Lilja that was a pretty good defensive unit heading into that season. I'm aware that you want to field an entire team of PMD's but most would find that adequate.

If we would have accepted nothing but defenders back for Carter and Richards the only forwards worth a damn offensively would have been Giroux, Hartnell, JVR, Read, and Briere. We needed forwards coming back in those trades.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:12 PM
  #441
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Yes and no. Holmgren's logic was mixed with that trade. He felt that a lower end 1st round pick was not as valuable as getting a player that had some experience under his belt and was still young like Eminger was. Also didn't help that Eminger looked good against the Flyers in the playoffs. The right handed shot thing probably also factored in. In short, if you add some context Holmgren wasn't completely off his rocker necessarily with the trade at the time (although I was livid) but it turned out to be a debacle. Stuff like that happens but again if you add some more context to it you can say that the Flyers focus on acquiring more NHL ready D men rather than developing them came back to bite them hard big time that draft.

Also, if the Flyers are so great with drafting as many of us typically claim on these boards, it's not out of the question that they would have picked up either one of those guys at that spot considering that they were looking to stock up on D men that year (as the Eminger trade also confirmed) and the Sbisa pick earlier in the draft who we subsequently traded for Pronger.

I've always been curious as to where the scouting staff had either of those guys ranked if they had retained that pick. Heck wonder where they had Henrique ranked and to a lesser extent Markstrom....

Obviously, they would know if Holmgren's gross miscalc with Eminger wouldn't have really mattered much....
I wasn't mad at the time, and I'm not now. Eminger was a great young prospect, one of the best PMDs in Jr. hockey. They had seen him lots while scouting Richards, so it's not like they were taking a shot in the dark. They were hoping Washington gave up on him too soon.

Unfortunately, there was so much pressure on him, and the team was so dysfunctional, it didn't work.

They turned him and problem child Downie into Carle, who was workhorse for us all the way to the SCF.

Eminger has been a pretty good player at times since. Sometimes you gamble as a GM and win, sometimes you lose. Call this a loss if you want, but it was worth a try. Not every deal is a Coburn or Leino-like theft. The only perfect GMs are the armchair ones who never have to actually make a call and trade a player or a pick (that's us!).

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:20 PM
  #442
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 16,275
vCash: 500
IF ONLY we could have a great offense, a great defense, and a great goalie. Man... we might be great!

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:35 PM
  #443
sg12lw
Registered User
 
sg12lw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 957
vCash: 500
I know he's fallen out of favor here bc of all the injuries....

but Mez is a really good player and I really hope that he can stay healthy. It would help our team out an awful lot

30-35 point player, physical, will jump up in the play, can shoot, can score, plays well in his own end, skates well. Pretty much exactly what we need.... IF he stays healthy. And yes, I know that is a BIG if

...lets not forget the guy is 27 and won the Ashbee trophy two years ago. Yes, he's been hurt a lot, but that doesn't mean he's done.

He was AWFUL this season, there's no denying it, but he had barely played any hockey in a year and a half....and I believe he was rushed back too soon bc of our position in the standings. If he can stay healthy and get back into form, I think we will be ok at D, even if we don't make any major moves for a dman.

All that being said, I would love Yandle on this team. I dont want to trade Couts, but I'd consider it. Hes gonna be our 3rd center for a long time, and I think that his role could be filled by a guy like Laughton if need be. I just dont think we need to do it right now...we are fine if our D is healthy...for one more year anyway..losing Kimmo is gonna hurt big time....then we will need to make a move.

Oh and this is all dependent on anyone not named Bryz being in goal next year...bc if he is, we are not fine. I dont care how many defenseman we add to the roster

sg12lw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:45 PM
  #444
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,362
vCash: 500
I just don't see Coots ever getting the chance to develop the offensive side of his game if he remains in Philly. To me that's a disgrace and a waste of his talents. If all he's going to be here is a defensive specialist then I think we should look to trade him because I feel comfortable in Laughton being able to fill that 3rd line center role (not as good as Coots but well enough for us to be able to afford to move Coots). With that in mind, and I know it's not a popular subject around here, I'd look into trading Coots and our 2nd for Gormley and the Dallas 1st. That would give us the 10th and 11th picks this year letting us draft two of Nurse, Zadorov, Ristolainen, and Pulock . It would take a few years to fully develop but we could have a very good top 4 with Schenn, Gormley and the two we drafted.

I'm just terrified that Homer overpays for someone like Buff, Edler or Yandle. None of those guys are very good in their own zone. They'd be a more offensive version of Matt Carle. While that's not a terrible thing, trading our 1st and Coots (something I can see Homer doing) to get them would really really piss me off. Streit can be signed to help bridge the cap between now and when the young dmen are ready for top 4 duties.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 04:52 PM
  #445
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,011
vCash: 500
I'm assuming you mean Gormley and Phoenix's first (12th overall)?

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 05:47 PM
  #446
Mr Black
Flyers-76ers-Eagles
 
Mr Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ross Ice Shelf
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 50
Couturier + 41 for Gormley + 12 is intriguing.

Mr Black is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 05:51 PM
  #447
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 12,471
vCash: 50
Not to me.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 06:16 PM
  #448
FreshPerspective
Ed finally concedes!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,724
vCash: 500
Just like I said with Bob...Flyers will rue the day they trade Coots although he would net some more immediate returns. I feel as strongly about Coots as I did with Justin Williams.....DO NOT TRADE HIM!

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 06:35 PM
  #449
jme42257
Registered User
 
jme42257's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Just like I said with Bob...Flyers will rue the day they trade Coots although he would net some more immediate returns. I feel as strongly about Coots as I did with Justin Williams.....DO NOT TRADE HIM!
i agree. Justin Williams and Patrick Sharp both... ugh.
i look at our d corps and see a sinking ship. Timonen is old and can't hack it for as many minutes as we've ridden him in the past, Mez is always injured....Coburn... who the hell knows with this dude. On the Cup run, Coburn was a man possessed... now, not so much. Re build the D core with draft picks/pluck an RFA haha.


its rough to look back and play 'what if?' with nashville matching us for Weber...

jme42257 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-10-2013, 06:39 PM
  #450
FlyingPhilly
Registered User
 
FlyingPhilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
IF ONLY we could have a great offense, a great defense, and a great goalie. Man... we might be great!
This about sums up what I have got from what he has been saying. A team with a great offense, defense, and goalie will be great! That is shocking!

FlyingPhilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.