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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) V

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Old
06-10-2013, 10:51 AM
  #101
Price My Man Crush
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Not sure if the amnesty buyouts are available next year. Is that right or am I dreaming?
They are available. Every team has two buyouts for two years.

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06-10-2013, 10:53 AM
  #102
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I love the idea of making this deal with the Isles. With the salary cap I am sure Molson's make alot of money off the business on a yearly basis. This 15 or so million would be a drop in the bucket. Get Niño and the 15th pick if it is possible. Send Gio in the deal if they want him.
Agreed, Habs make off like bandits in this deal, even if they have to add Gionta or Desharnais...I say get it done!!

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06-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #103
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I wouldn't agree, how do two first rounders get even close to compensating for the loss of 22mil? It's very unlikely that those two prospects would be able to generate that sort of money as players and it could be 4-5 years before they benefit the roster enough to provide playoff revenue or something of the sort and even that's not guaranteed. It's a business and it's an investment, it isn't about making the team better and improving the prospect pool. Unless there are tangible benefits or a near guarantee of a performance increase (7 first round picks) over several years, it just doesn't make sense. However, we don't have access to economic information so we are all just guessing.
This sane ownership group just spent 600 million overall, again, it is called a high risk, high reward investment.

The dipietro contract with a first? Low risk and low reward.

We have access to all the icon information necessary. We know:
1) the cost of dipietro.
2) the expected value of a playoff round (7 million)
3) the cost of borrowing: 5% or so.
4) the average historical performance of draft picks.

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06-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #104
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Not sure if the amnesty buyouts are available next year. Is that right or am I dreaming?
I believe they are this off-season and next off-season

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06-10-2013, 11:31 AM
  #105
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Listen i know everyone talks about how we won't compete for a cup until we drop some smaller players and replace them with Bickell types, and its hard to disagree completely. But at the end of the day there's still something very lineal about teams like Los Angeles and Boston in their cup runs.

Outstanding goaltending.

There's a reason why Pittsburgh with all their star power got destroyed last year by Philly, and couldn't make it Boston this year.

Sub-par goaltending.

The same thing can be said about our first round this year. Montreal overall played very well--size had very little to do with it. It was Carey Price not being good enough.

I think the key is getting him the right goalie coach. It's really too bad Olaf Kolzig can't come help out. Price needs a coach that works as teacher/psychologist. The same can probably be said about Fleury. They both seem to have similar focus issues.

I still think that we need to get bigger and more physical, but probably the most important task this summer is to get Carey the right goalie coach, imo.

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06-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Listen i know everyone talks about how we won't compete for a cup until we drop some smaller players and replace them with Bickell types, and its hard to disagree completely. But at the end of the day there's still something very lineal about teams like Los Angeles and Boston in their cup runs.

Outstanding goaltending.

There's a reason why Pittsburgh with all their star power got destroyed last year by Philly, and couldn't make it Boston this year.

Sub-par goaltending.

The same thing can be said about our first round this year. Montreal overall played very well--size had very little to do with it. It was Carey Price not being good enough.

I think the key is getting him the right goalie coach. It's really too bad Olaf Kolzig can't come help out. Price needs a coach that works as teacher/psychologist. The same can probably be said about Fleury. They both seem to have similar focus issues.

I still think that we need to get bigger and more physical, but probably the most important task this summer is to get Carey the right goalie coach, imo.
BS. They scored 2 goals against Boston and the reason was sub-par goaltending?

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06-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Listen i know everyone talks about how we won't compete for a cup until we drop some smaller players and replace them with Bickell types, and its hard to disagree completely. But at the end of the day there's still something very lineal about teams like Los Angeles and Boston in their cup runs.

Outstanding goaltending.

There's a reason why Pittsburgh with all their star power got destroyed last year by Philly, and couldn't make it Boston this year.

Sub-par goaltending.

The same thing can be said about our first round this year. Montreal overall played very well--size had very little to do with it. It was Carey Price not being good enough.

I think the key is getting him the right goalie coach. It's really too bad Olaf Kolzig can't come help out. Price needs a coach that works as teacher/psychologist. The same can probably be said about Fleury. They both seem to have similar focus issues.

I still think that we need to get bigger and more physical, but probably the most important task this summer is to get Carey the right goalie coach, imo.
Goaltending was a big part of our playoff issues, but there were other issues. The D needed to be better. Too soft, too small. Could not go into the corners and retrieve the puck. Markov, Diaz, even Gorges looked soft and overmatched in their own end. Then offensively, no one wanted to go to the net besides Gallagher and Prust (who got penalized for it). How do you beat a good goalie? Screen him, get in his face, disrupt him.

Good goaltending probably could have overcome these problems in round 1, it wouldn't have been enough against the better teams. Goaltending was the biggest issue, but we needed improvement in all phases. O,D,goaltending.

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06-10-2013, 11:49 AM
  #108
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BS. They scored 2 goals against Boston and the reason was sub-par goaltending?
Good goaltending wouldn't save the Pens in that series...but great goaltending is why the Pens could not score.

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06-10-2013, 11:56 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Good goaltending wouldn't save the Pens in that series...but great goaltending is why the Pens could not score.
Great goaltending and excellent defense typically prevail. That said you have some of the most offensively gifted players in the world on that team. The future was mortgaged to bring in some excellent character guys. But, 2 goals in 4 games is unacceptable and either the GM or Coach should be releived of duties. Can't hang the loss on the Pens goaltending though.

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06-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Made that proposal the other day... Habs fans mostly called me names, but I think they greatly undervalue the importance of a guy like Malkin, or rather overrate their own players.

Malkin
Fleury

vs

Plekanec
Pacioretty
Price
Tinordi OR Beaulieu OR 2013 first

I think that makes the Pens a much more balanced team, while drastically improving their position of weakness. Pacioretty is on a great contract as well, as I consider him a better player than Neal while being paid less. Plekanec would give them that stabilizing defensive presence on the second line while being able to chip in offensively at times and give them around 50-60 points a year. Tinordi is a great SAH defenseman that would be ready to assume a full time role as soon as next year. Beaulieu has more upside, but is less of a need for the Pens considering his PMD role. Or, they can take our 2013 first and pick whichever guy they feel would fit them best at that position.

Malkin gives the Habs the true #1 center they've been looking for over the last two decades. I'm not worried about the "he won't have anybody to play with" that my fellow Habs fans brought up since he can be a 100 points player with whoever he plays. It also takes off pressure from Galchenyuk shoulders to become "the" guy in the next few years. It also, oddly enough, gives us the chance to build a team based on the model that made the Pens successful during their 08 and 09 cup runs, possibly having three impact centers at a time (in a few years, with Malkin, Galchenyuk and Eller). Fleury would be coming back since his value is as close as it can be to 0 and the Pens wouldn't be able to afford the trade without sending him back. We would take him in hope to salvage his career after coming back to his hometown.

The only real downside for the Habs in this trade is the downgrade between the post considering we lack depth at that position in our prospect pool. Otherwise, we are a significantly better team.

As for Pittsburgh, they are a much more well rounded team that can finally play both a shutdown time game AND a high paced offensive game if need be. Plekanec brings them versatility, Pacioretty may be the winger Crosby has always dreamed to play with, Price can steal them games and Tinordi should develop into a big, minute-eater shutdown defenseman within the next few years.

When we look at what Thornton got a few years ago, I think this is a great offer for the Pens. They shouldn't bother asking for either Galchenyuk or Subban, because there's no way I'd trade them away at this point in time.
thoughts? i love the deal, adding fleury to it allows us to maintain our core of gally/galch/subban/eller cus he has negative value for pits. and he only has 2+ years left on his contract too, best case scenario he steps his game up and we resign him

i would only give them a 1st rounder tho

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Old
06-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #111
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No matter how much people on the internet think these owners have endless money supplies this ownership group is not going to burn 24M for one draft pick or player. It would be a bad business decision.
Not unlimited money, but 24 million would be paid for with 2 or 3 extra playoff series over the time you have the player.

I wouldn't think Nino is worth that, but I could see Strome having that kind of impact.

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06-10-2013, 01:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 1993 View Post
I love the idea of making this deal with the Isles. With the salary cap I am sure Molson's make alot of money off the business on a yearly basis. This 15 or so million would be a drop in the bucket. Get Niño and the 15th pick if it is possible. Send Gio in the deal if they want him.
Tell that to Geoff Molson and the other 6 entities of the ownership group. You'll see their reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Not sure if the amnesty buyouts are available next year. Is that right or am I dreaming?
Like everyone said, this offseason and next offseason plus the brief offseason before the season started (1 amnesty buyout allowed a la Gomez, Redden, etc.) but no more than 2 allowed over this time frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
This sane ownership group just spent 600 million overall, again, it is called a high risk, high reward investment.

The dipietro contract with a first? Low risk and low reward.

We have access to all the icon information necessary. We know:
1) the cost of dipietro.
2) the expected value of a playoff round (7 million)
3) the cost of borrowing: 5% or so.
4) the average historical performance of draft picks.
Where did you get this number from? It's 1 million in revenue per HOME GAME of which your minimum is 2 and maximum is 3 or 4 depending on if you're the higher seed. This doesn't include TV (which i assume pays extra for playoff broadcasting rights) and advertising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Listen i know everyone talks about how we won't compete for a cup until we drop some smaller players and replace them with Bickell types, and its hard to disagree completely. But at the end of the day there's still something very lineal about teams like Los Angeles and Boston in their cup runs.

Outstanding goaltending.

There's a reason why Pittsburgh with all their star power got destroyed last year by Philly, and couldn't make it Boston this year.

Sub-par goaltending.

The same thing can be said about our first round this year. Montreal overall played very well--size had very little to do with it. It was Carey Price not being good enough.

I think the key is getting him the right goalie coach. It's really too bad Olaf Kolzig can't come help out. Price needs a coach that works as teacher/psychologist. The same can probably be said about Fleury. They both seem to have similar focus issues.

I still think that we need to get bigger and more physical, but probably the most important task this summer is to get Carey the right goalie coach, imo.
This is not true at all.

Firstly, like said above, Bruins allowed 2 goals on 160 shots. That's better than Craig Anderson's numbers from the regular season.

Secondly, our series against Ottawa, Price let one game go (Game 1). Game 2 he won pretty much for us, Game 3 we stopped playing after being down 4-1, and Game 4 we should have won but were unlucky.

Bruins shut down the Pens. LA, who has amazing goaltending, didn't beat CHI. The reason being is CHI's offense could not be handled by JQ and the LA D. That, plus some other external factors, lead to the Kings losing in 5.

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06-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #113
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DiPietro + Griffin Reinhart + Matt Martin

Kaberle + Diaz + ????
_________________________________

The cost of buying out DiPietro minus Kaberle (22.5M - 3M) will be 18.5, just bellow 5M/yr for 4 yrs

Reinhart is a talented big D (6.4, 200) drafted #4 in 2012

Martin is a big time hitter (#1 in NHL) 1M/yr for 3 . He play around 12min


The deal fills a need for NYI after the loss of Streit. I'd bet Kaberle will not be bought out

BUT...

For NYI to accept we would need to add more. Beaulieu ? Collberg? 34th ? Desharnais ? Gorges ?

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06-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Great goaltending and excellent defense typically prevail. That said you have some of the most offensively gifted players in the world on that team. The future was mortgaged to bring in some excellent character guys. But, 2 goals in 4 games is unacceptable and either the GM or Coach should be releived of duties. Can't hang the loss on the Pens goaltending though.
The common formula is goaltending+offense=Cup

You will rarely if ever see a team win a Cup that isn't in the top quarter of the league in goals scored for. And have a top goalie.

Test the theory over the past 10-15 years, you will see that in fact with few exceptions Offense Wins Championships


Last edited by Agnostic: 06-10-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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06-10-2013, 01:44 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Tell that to Geoff Molson and the other 6 entities of the ownership group. You'll see their reaction.



Like everyone said, this offseason and next offseason plus the brief offseason before the season started (1 amnesty buyout allowed a la Gomez, Redden, etc.) but no more than 2 allowed over this time frame.



Where did you get this number from? It's 1 million in revenue per HOME GAME of which your minimum is 2 and maximum is 3 or 4 depending on if you're the higher seed. This doesn't include TV (which i assume pays extra for playoff broadcasting rights) and advertising.



This is not true at all.

Firstly, like said above, Bruins allowed 2 goals on 160 shots. That's better than Craig Anderson's numbers from the regular season.

Secondly, our series against Ottawa, Price let one game go (Game 1). Game 2 he won pretty much for us, Game 3 we stopped playing after being down 4-1, and Game 4 we should have won but were unlucky.

Bruins shut down the Pens. LA, who has amazing goaltending, didn't beat CHI. The reason being is CHI's offense could not be handled by JQ and the LA D. That, plus some other external factors, lead to the Kings losing in 5.
I never said we didn't need a lot more to compete. I just think one major stumbling block is the play and development of Carey Price. We're not even close to a team like the Blackhawks, who have multiple star players at every position. We have one, full fledged dominant star in PK Subban. That's it. Galchenyuk will get there eventually, but besides that we have a lot of work to do.

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06-10-2013, 01:47 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
BS. They scored 2 goals against Boston and the reason was sub-par goaltending?
When you give up softies early on in a game against a team with a great D, you completely lose focus. Pittsburgh needed a dynamic goalie that could keep them in games, give them a boost, and they never got it.

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06-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
I never said we didn't need a lot more to compete. I just think one major stumbling block is the play and development of Carey Price. We're not even close to a team like the Blackhawks, who have multiple star players at every position. We have one, full fledged dominant star in PK Subban. That's it. Galchenyuk will get there eventually, but besides that we have a lot of work to do.
Firstly, the stumbling block of the Montreal Canadiens is not their goalie; trust me on this. If MB were to say, hypothetically, that CP31 is on the trading block, do you know how many teams would make an offer? At least half the league. He's a top 10 goalie in the NHL, despite your biased opinion that might be based on his most recent performance. He outplayed Thomas in 2011 Playoffs. His stats the past few years (not including this year where everyone agrees was bad, but still a 48-game season) have been great given that he's been playing in front of the "soft", "weak" low-scoring, badly defending Montreal Canadiens. Put Price on Nashville and he'd be almost as good as Rinne.

Secondly, the reason why the Blackhawks, where we're not even close to is because they have three PPG+ players where we don't even have one, they have a defensive unit that is all-around probably one of the best in the league, and their goalie played well for them this year. Ask CHI fans about what they thought of Crawford before this season and you'll hear something like "Inconsistent. Don't know which Crawford would show up, etc." Why do you think they had to go out and get Emery to back him up and play almost the same amount of games...?

Please don't compare us to the Blackhawks, where they got two top 3 picks back-to-back and also got to sign Hossa to a 12-year salary cap circumventing contract.

When was the last time Montreal signed a top 20 arguably top 10 forward in the NHL?

Didn't think you could remember...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
When you give up softies early on in a game against a team with a great D, you completely lose focus. Pittsburgh needed a dynamic goalie that could keep them in games, give them a boost, and they never got it.
Pittsburgh needed ****ing Dominik Hasek to win their last game. They needed their scoring to wake up from being asleep for 3 games, give their goalie some confidence to not allow 1 goal or else they'll lose kind of deal.

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06-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #118
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Ok, who is going to start the thread about trading Subban while he has "good value and can get us something good in a trade".



Edit: Oh yeah, a rookie did it already. Who had TT1 in the pool?


Last edited by Agnostic: 06-10-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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06-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
When you give up softies early on in a game against a team with a great D, you completely lose focus. Pittsburgh needed a dynamic goalie that could keep them in games, give them a boost, and they never got it.
Speaking of softies, how come Quick gets a free pass the last couple of games vs the Hawks??

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06-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #120
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A conservative vision of the team, no major trades...

I'm usually in favor of carrying 13F and 8D, but Tinordi showing some things this season and Nygren crossing the pond, along with a thin crop of forwards in Hamilton changes that.

LA has no cap space, Penner should be a better bargain than Bickell and could benefit from playing the latter part of his career in a weaker division. Seems like Volchenkov is on his way out of NJ, whether he's bought out or traded with some salary retained. I trust Leopold more than Diaz (moved for futures) in his own end. I like Halpern more than Armstrong as a low cost vet.

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Gionta
Penner-Desharnais-Galchenyuk
Prust-Halpern-White
Moen-Dumont

Bournival/Leblanc

Volchenkov-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Leopold-Gorges
Bouillon

Tinordi/Nygren/Beaulieu

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06-10-2013, 02:35 PM
  #121
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Ok, who is going to start the thread about trading Subban while he has "good value and can get us something good in a trade".



Edit: Oh yeah, a rookie did it already. Who had TT1 in the pool?
IM ONLY A ROOKIE BY NAME, in reality im an elite troll

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06-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #122
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IM ONLY A ROOKIE BY NAME, in reality im an elite troll
Noted.

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06-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #123
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Noted.
and thus it began

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06-10-2013, 04:21 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
A conservative vision of the team, no major trades...

I'm usually in favor of carrying 13F and 8D, but Tinordi showing some things this season and Nygren crossing the pond, along with a thin crop of forwards in Hamilton changes that.

LA has no cap space, Penner should be a better bargain than Bickell and could benefit from playing the latter part of his career in a weaker division. Seems like Volchenkov is on his way out of NJ, whether he's bought out or traded with some salary retained. I trust Leopold more than Diaz (moved for futures) in his own end. I like Halpern more than Armstrong as a low cost vet.

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Gionta
Penner-Desharnais-Galchenyuk
Prust-Halpern-White
Moen-Dumont

Bournival/Leblanc

Volchenkov-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Leopold-Gorges
Bouillon

Tinordi/Nygren/Beaulieu
Please no more. Volchenkov is done and Penner gets hurt eating pancakes. I would do this if we are tanking but this just hurts the team.

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06-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #125
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The thing is. Nobody will trade for DiPietro without sending money back the other way.

I assume, a deal involving the Canadiens would look like :

Rick DiPietro + Nino Niederreiter + 15th OV
vs
Thomas Kaberle + Travis Moen + 32nd OV

You send : 8.5M$ (Kaberle) and 7,4M$ (Moen), for a total of : 15.9M$.
Dipietro's money minus 15,9M$ and you talk about 6M$.

While adding a type of prospect that we need (Niederreiter is a powerforward ready to stepup in the NHL), we correct a mistake that we made (moen), have 2 first rounds in a deep draft and free-up space and a roster spot on our salary cap for next year.

Islanders does this, because they save money but also add a full time player on their roster (moen), and move a player that create them problems and asked for a trade last year (niederreiter).


Pacioretty - DD - Niederreiter
Bourque - Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Eller - Prust
I'd make that deal even if we had to use our first instead of Calgary's second. Hell, they could have both. That is a coup, an absolute coup.

Just please get Desharnais the hell off our first line. Galchenyuk or Eller ought to take that spot, unless DD has a huge resurgence.

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