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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
06-10-2013, 05:49 PM
  #826
Marc the Habs Fan
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Who do you guys like at 55? I'm making a list of 4-5 guys I'd like at each pick but 55 is hard to decide cause their rankings differentiate, so far I was thinking Duclair, Subban, Moutrey, Diaby... who else? And are these guys options at that point?
I think a lot of those names will be there at 71.

Bjorkstrand, Lodge, Jarry, Heatherington, Pesce, Dano, Cehlarik, M-O Roy and Hayden would be some of my ''wants'' at 55.

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06-10-2013, 05:55 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by kernkraft View Post
Zetterberg was a late pick, Datsyuk was a later pick, Neal, Benn, Subban, etc. All core players. What if they'd gone for a safe pick instead? That's my point. Talent trumps all else IMO.

(I don't know enough about Audette to debate that point)
Datsyuk, Zetterbergh and Benn are exactly my point. You go boom or bust 3rd round and on. There is so much talent in the first 2 rounds that yu dont have to make a risky pick. Safer picks have almost the same upside as risy picks. Subban I agree with good pick but the rest helps my point.

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06-10-2013, 05:59 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Who do you guys like at 55? I'm making a list of 4-5 guys I'd like at each pick but 55 is hard to decide cause their rankings differentiate, so far I was thinking Duclair, Subban, Moutrey, Diaby... who else? And are these guys options at that point?
At 55 I like Jimmy lodge, John Hayden, Adam Tambellini, Marko Dano, Eric Roy and Oliver Bjokstrand. Not sure if they will still be there but they would be my targets.

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06-10-2013, 06:43 PM
  #829
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Good draft interview with Timmins.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=672693

Timmins was asked if the size of a player is ever a prerequisite for choosing him on draft day. Obviously, the success 5-foot-9, 163-pound Gallagher had this season answered that inquiry loud and clear.

The one undersized player who might be available at No. 25 for the Canadiens is 5-foot-8.5, 165-pound center Nicolas Petan of the Portland Winterhawks. Petan, No. 33 on Central Scouting's North American list, played a huge role in Portland's run to the Western Hockey League championship this season, finishing with 46 goals, 120 points and a plus-68 rating in 71 regular-season games. He had nine goals and 28 points in 21 playoff matches.

"What defines undersized by today's standards?" Timmins asked. "Is it under 5-foot-10? I wouldn't call Drouin (5-10.5, 186) an undersized player. When you look around the League and look at the all the players who have done really well, it's apparent that size doesn't really have a bearing on anything

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06-10-2013, 06:50 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Datsyuk, Zetterbergh and Benn are exactly my point. You go boom or bust 3rd round and on. There is so much talent in the first 2 rounds that yu dont have to make a risky pick. Safer picks have almost the same upside as risy picks. Subban I agree with good pick but the rest helps my point.
I'm speaking in general terms here. I could point out Giroux in the late 1st as well. I think you always go for the high-ceiling players at the draft. Sure, if you think two players have the same potential, pick the one with the better likelihood of success. I think that Leblanc is a good example: he was a safe pick as in he'd reach the NHL, but certainly no one was predicting he'd be a star player. I hate those picks. Why not just trade the pick for an established 3rd liner instead if that's what you're projecting anyways?


Quote:
Safer picks have almost the same upside as risy picks.
What?

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06-10-2013, 06:50 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
The guy I have in mind is De La Rose over Poirier. His ceiling is not a 3rd liner but he will never be a 1st liner. A good 2nd liner and at worst a great 3rd liner.

You are not drafting Malkin in the 2nd round. Dont even start comparisons there.

Ok he was a 1st overall OHL selection. Audette was a 1st overall Q selection... not looking to good for him. After O'Riellys OHL years he wasnt developping as expected.
Audette was the #1 selection, not only because he was the best player, but because he was bringing lots of coverage to the team, his father being a known hockey player. Pretty good marketing move. Also, Audette will most likely stay around for 4 years.

Audette had 1 less point than Pépin who played on a much stronger PEI him than him, and he played 10 less games than the 2nd overall pick.

If you look at the other 16 year old rookies, he was the 2nd best production wise(behind Pépin), having played less games than most of them.

I would be careful before labeling that as a bad pick, bud.

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06-10-2013, 06:51 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Good draft interview with Timmins.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=672693

Timmins was asked if the size of a player is ever a prerequisite for choosing him on draft day. Obviously, the success 5-foot-9, 163-pound Gallagher had this season answered that inquiry loud and clear.

The one undersized player who might be available at No. 25 for the Canadiens is 5-foot-8.5, 165-pound center Nicolas Petan of the Portland Winterhawks. Petan, No. 33 on Central Scouting's North American list, played a huge role in Portland's run to the Western Hockey League championship this season, finishing with 46 goals, 120 points and a plus-68 rating in 71 regular-season games. He had nine goals and 28 points in 21 playoff matches.

"What defines undersized by today's standards?" Timmins asked. "Is it under 5-foot-10? I wouldn't call Drouin (5-10.5, 186) an undersized player. When you look around the League and look at the all the players who have done really well, it's apparent that size doesn't really have a bearing on anything

Character is more important than size. Some guys are small but play big...others are big but play small.

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06-10-2013, 07:04 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by kernkraft View Post
I'm speaking in general terms here. I could point out Giroux in the late 1st as well. I think you always go for the high-ceiling players at the draft. Sure, if you think two players have the same potential, pick the one with the better likelihood of success. I think that Leblanc is a good example: he was a safe pick as in he'd reach the NHL, but certainly no one was predicting he'd be a star player. I hate those picks. Why not just trade the pick for an established 3rd liner instead if that's what you're projecting anyways?

Leblanc was a bad pick. But De La Rose brings grit, physicality, has good hands, good speed, leadership... he may not be the guy with the most points but he brings a lot of intagibles and if all goes well, can be a David Backes(another guy that didnt have elite upside).


What?
I meant Especially if the safer picks almost have the same upside as the risky pick. i really dont think the difference between someone like De la Rose and poirier is that great.

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06-10-2013, 07:06 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Audette was the #1 selection, not only because he was the best player, but because he was bringing lots of coverage to the team, his father being a known hockey player. Pretty good marketing move. Also, Audette will most likely stay around for 4 years.

Audette had 1 less point than Pépin who played on a much stronger PEI him than him, and he played 10 less games than the 2nd overall pick.

If you look at the other 16 year old rookies, he was the 2nd best production wise(behind Pépin), having played less games than most of them.

I would be careful before labeling that as a bad pick, bud.
5"8 and alright numbers. Weak Q draft in general but was refering to the fact that Junior draft doesnt mean much. I wont hesitate to say Audette doesnt have all that much of a chance of being that great in the NHL.

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06-10-2013, 07:11 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
I meant Especially if the safer picks almost have the same upside as the risky pick. i really dont think the difference between someone like De la Rose and poirier is that great.
Oh I see. Yeah, I don't know enough about either of them to argue one way or the other. Although I must say that Poirier's skating is impressive from the videos I've seen.

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06-10-2013, 07:19 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
5"8 and alright numbers. Weak Q draft in general but was refering to the fact that Junior draft doesnt mean much. I wont hesitate to say Audette doesnt have all that much of a chance of being that great in the NHL.
If you compare him to Mackinnon and Drouin, yes, but he will be drafted in the NHL, and he'll have his shot. He is the most talented player the Québec has to offer next season.

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06-10-2013, 07:21 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I think a lot of those names will be there at 71.

Bjorkstrand, Lodge, Jarry, Heatherington, Pesce, Dano, Cehlarik, M-O Roy and Hayden would be some of my ''wants'' at 55.
At #55 if Diaby is on the board the Habs should be all over him. Any of the rest are good but( Moutrey and Hayden) are the 3rd's I think they are taking. Both were at their Combine. Hayden has slow feet like linemen in football and that problem will disaapear while he's in college. Oleksiak had that problem at Northeastern, they worked through the summer and the next season look where he was taken, 14th overall by Dallas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
At 55 I like Jimmy lodge, John Hayden, Adam Tambellini, Marko Dano, Eric Roy and Oliver Bjokstrand. Not sure if they will still be there but they would be my targets.
Bergevin and Timmins know these are minor problems, I hope we get Hayden before Boston or the Leafs. Dano is as good a player as Buchnevich or Burakovsky as far as I'm concerned possibly better, a really hard working player like Plecky, IMO.

IMO #55 - Diaby
#71 - Moutrey
#85 - Hayden
All three were at the Combine and could really help this team be a powerhouse once again.

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06-10-2013, 07:39 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Datsyuk, Zetterbergh and Benn are exactly my point. You go boom or bust 3rd round and on. There is so much talent in the first 2 rounds that yu dont have to make a risky pick. Safer picks have almost the same upside as risy picks. Subban I agree with good pick but the rest helps my point.
How about Henrik Lundqvist? Round 7, 205 overall

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06-10-2013, 07:45 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Good draft interview with Timmins.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=672693

Timmins was asked if the size of a player is ever a prerequisite for choosing him on draft day. Obviously, the success 5-foot-9, 163-pound Gallagher had this season answered that inquiry loud and clear.
That's one guy chosen in the 5th Round. Tons of small guys who don't make it. Several small players available after the draft for nothing, like DD.

Quote:
The one undersized player who might be available at No. 25 for the Canadiens is 5-foot-8.5, 165-pound center Nicolas Petan of the Portland Winterhawks.
Habs won't take him. There will be others in the same value tier, who provide different skills that are just as desirable and fit the team's needs at the same time and who play a gritty game. Especially this year.

Quote:
"What defines undersized by today's standards?" Timmins asked.
Size is what your boss defines it as. In a draft replete with power forwards who can score and are two-way players, Bergevin's stated goal of adding more size can be accomplished without sacrificing skill.


Last edited by Runner77: 06-10-2013 at 10:24 PM. Reason: typo
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06-10-2013, 07:49 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
And what if your "Boom" players bust? Look at 2009 when Carter Ashton was a high potential player, could be an elite powerforward... Ryan O'Rielly was taken 4 spots later. Thats one case, obviously boom or bust players work out sometimes but they also bust. There are some players that can be key to our core that dont have the upside as others.

And just to let you know, you dont get elite 3rd liners in free agency. Guys like Jannik Hansen, Curtis Glencross, Vladimir Sobotka and Cal Cluttebuck dont usually make it that far because they are so highly regarded on their team. These are players that help you win a cup.
If your focus is on acquiring elite 3rd line players (and allocating a disproportionate percentage of your cap space on that part of your roster) you'll have to wait another two or three decades for a championship. I want to acquire as many elite/skilled players as possible. It's your core players that define your team and largely determine the success of your franchise. Drafting 'safe' players who have only limited upside only means that Montreal will remain a middle of the pack team that with growing parity in the league will be in a dog fight each year to just make the playoffs. With Subban, Galchenyuk , Price and MaxPac we have the start of a strong core. We have to draft players who have the potential to match or even surpass their level of play. Safe players are only supportive of this core, and do not add to it.


Last edited by ChesterNimitz: 06-10-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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06-10-2013, 08:09 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
If your focus is on acquiring elite 3rd line players (and allocating a disproportionate percentage on that part of your roster) you'll have to wait another two or three decades for a championship. I want to acquire as many elite/skilled players as possible. Its your core players that define your team and largely determine the success of your franchise. Drafting 'safe' players who have only limited upside only means that Montreal will remain a middle of the pack team that with growing parity in the league will be in a dog fight each year to just make the playoffs. With Subban, Galchenyuk , Price and MaxPac we have the start of a strong core. We have to draft players who have the potential to match or even surpass their level of play. Safe players are only supportive of this core, and do not add to it.
I'm quite sure that Bergevin and Staff are more than aware what players are necessary to build their team. There isn't a team in the world that has the SC experience that the Habs have on Speed Dial for anything they might need. Players like Lambert, Risebrough and Tremblay as an energy line/checking line in the 70's. All players have a role on a winning team, there are no riders. Every player has their special duties of which, each NHLer are very good at and the coaches are aware of them.

So, when choosing players in any round the scouts will know each player like a son or the team after they draft will. Not the Habs concern or their fans.

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06-10-2013, 08:18 PM
  #842
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I'd be an ecstatic Habs fan if Diaby was available at 55. I don't see it happening though. Team are usually copycats...and Boston has toughness a team like the Habs still seeks. I would think Morin, Hartman, McCarron, Diaby are all possible targets. I hope the Habs can land at least one of them given their plethora of top 55 picks, but I also expect all four to be highly valued, so it's far from a given. After the top 7 or so there is little consensus in this draft..mainly because there are 50+ quality prospects in this draft. Somebody ranked 45 on one list could go 15th, and nobody will think it's a bad pick.


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Old
06-10-2013, 08:43 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
5"8 and alright numbers. Weak Q draft in general but was refering to the fact that Junior draft doesnt mean much. I wont hesitate to say Audette doesnt have all that much of a chance of being that great in the NHL.
I see your point Archie was chosen 1st in the QMJHL draft and was let go. As QuebecPride says though don't count Audette out, his father was one of the smallest players in the NHL. Donald was a team leader, he gave 100% every shift I ever seen him play and went up against every player with the same intensity. So that said, I wouldn't put money on Daniel not making the NHL if I was you. Honest Indian!

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06-10-2013, 08:43 PM
  #844
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Habs won't take him. There will be others in the same value tier, who provide different skills that are just as desirable and fit the team's needs at the same time and who play a gritty game. Especially this year.
Petan to me is a swing for the fences pick. If he reaches his full potential alot of teams will look foolish passing him up and if he doesn't he will be a borderline NHLer. I am not saying Montreal should pick him, but if you are looking for top end talent where Montreal is picking it's guys like Petan you have to look at

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06-10-2013, 09:01 PM
  #845
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Petan to me is a swing for the fences pick. If he reaches his full potential alot of teams will look foolish passing him up and if he doesn't he will be a borderline NHLer. I am not saying Montreal should pick him, but if you are looking for top end talent where Montreal is picking it's guys like Petan you have to look at
This is the right approach. We go for the highest end talent. We can debate all we want who that it is: Petan, Bowey, etc. But it's the approach to this first pick that is important. We ignore the downside risks. It is, the proverbial swing for the fences. If our scouts are good, the attendant risks will be minimized. And if we are wrong, we have the 34, 36 and 55 picks to make up for that error. Let's all hope that Timmins choses wisely.

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06-10-2013, 09:13 PM
  #846
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I'm not a huge fan of this team in particular picking Petan for obvious reasons, but I'm an even less of a fan of ignoring talent because of their height.

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06-10-2013, 09:14 PM
  #847
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That Cehlarik dude is slowly growing on me.

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06-10-2013, 09:24 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Agree...we have plenty of offensive defencemen on he Habs...Subban, Diaz, Beaulieu and Nygren. They would match-up well with defensive defencemen like Emelin, Dietz, Tinordi and Santini.

You obviously have no grasp on Dietz' game.

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06-10-2013, 09:28 PM
  #849
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I'm not a huge fan of this team in particular picking Petan for obvious reasons, but I'm an even less of a fan of ignoring talent because of their height.
A well written and thoughtful post. Let's hope that Timmins and crew use the same mental elasticity in their approach to the draft.

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06-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
I'm quite sure that Bergevin and Staff are more than aware what players are necessary to build their team. There isn't a team in the world that has the SC experience that the Habs have on Speed Dial for anything they might need. Players like Lambert, Risebrough and Tremblay as an energy line/checking line in the 70's. All players have a role on a winning team, there are no riders. Every player has their special duties of which, each NHLer are very good at and the coaches are aware of them.

So, when choosing players in any round the scouts will know each player like a son or the team after they draft will. Not the Habs concern or their fans.
Exactly. You need a well balanced team. Someone like De La Rose can be a great gritty, two-way player.

Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Pacioretty, Collberg and Eller is a good start to the top 6. You have to surround them with depth to win championships. just look at Pittsburgh, a lot of high end talent beaten by the Bruins who are a well rounded team.

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