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Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Sean Monahan/Elias Lindholm?

View Poll Results: Would you trade Jake Gardiner for the #7 pick in the draft?
Yes 54 21.34%
No 199 78.66%
Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-10-2013, 11:27 PM
  #76
The Blue Devil
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
This is just plain wrong. Schenn is everything the Leafs are lacking right now. The Leafs chose to give up a lot of talent on D for a lot of talent offensively (with size that they also lacked).
What? One of the main reasons why the Leafs got hemmed in so much this year was because their back-end lacked the foot-speed and skill to get it out. The only players that we had that were consistently good at it were Gardiner and Franson. Schenn would not have helped.

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06-10-2013, 11:28 PM
  #77
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Some people need to learn who Monahan and Lindholm are.

Both those guys would likely go in the top 5 in any other draft.

This isn't like the Kadri draft year.

Both Monahan and Lindholm are much better than Nazem was at 18.

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06-10-2013, 11:32 PM
  #78
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yes..

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06-10-2013, 11:33 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Some people need to learn who Monahan and Lindholm are.

Both those guys would likely go in the top 5 in any other draft.

This isn't like the Kadri draft year.

Both Monahan and Lindholm are much better than Nazem was at 18.
In a two-way sense, sure. Naz's offensive ability was better than both, though.

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06-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #80
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The reason I would take the gamble of doing the trade is we are trading from a position of strength still. Going forward we still have players like Phaneuf, Franson and Liles in the NHL along with numerous prospects like Rielly, Finn, Granberg, Percy, etc. Are all those players sure things? No, but chances are a few of them make it. Are all of the players anywhere close to skating ability as Gardiner? No, but it is still a position of strength. Up front our only top 6 prospect is kind of Colborne who is starting to look like he may not ever consistently crack the top 6. Other than him, we just have long shots. It's a gamble to do the trade, but it can help to balance our team. Center is an extremely important position in the NHL and is the weakest on our team. I realize the prospect we acquire likely won't make a significant impact for a few years, if ever, but the same goes for our other prospects and our core players are still young and will still be around for when they start to make an impact.

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06-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankuptheSnakes View Post
In a two-way sense, sure. Naz's offensive ability was better than both, though.
Overall, Monahan and Lindholm are better players than Kadri was at 18.

The point still stands.

Trading Gardiner for the 7th pick is basically like shifting your assets from defence to centre.

It makes a lot of sense, as good as Jake Gardiner is.

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06-10-2013, 11:36 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
The reason I would take the gamble of doing the trade is we are trading from a position of strength still. Going forward we still have players like Phaneuf, Franson and Liles in the NHL along with numerous prospects like Rielly, Finn, Granberg, Percy, etc. Are all those players sure things? No, but chances are a few of them make it. Are all of the players anywhere close to skating ability as Gardiner? No, but it is still a position of strength. Up front our only top 6 prospect is kind of Colborne who is starting to look like he may not ever consistently crack the top 6. Other than him, we just have long shots. It's a gamble to do the trade, but it can help to balance our team. Center is an extremely important position in the NHL and is the weakest on our team. I realize the prospect we acquire likely won't make a significant impact for a few years, if ever, but the same goes for our other prospects and our core players are still young and will still be around for when they start to make an impact.
You got it.

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06-10-2013, 11:36 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Overall, Monahan and Lindholm are better players than Kadri was at 18.

The point still stands.

Trading Gardiner for the 7th pick is basically like shifting your assets from defence to centre.

It makes a lot of sense, as good as Jake Gardiner is.
You get it too.

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06-10-2013, 11:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You got it.
Ideally for me we keep Gardiner and move up in the draft a bit to get the guy in the right of your avatar

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06-10-2013, 11:42 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Ideally for me we keep Gardiner and move up in the draft a bit to get the guy in the right of your avatar
Realistically it will cost us either Rielly or Gardiner.

Rielly is 205 lbs of muscle, and is probably better defensively than Gardiner will be when both reach their primes, so if we had to lose one, we may as well reunite Schultz with his best buddy.

Yep, Horvat is going to be a heck of a player, ordinary players do not play shutdown C and score 16 goals in 21 playoff games.

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06-10-2013, 11:43 PM
  #86
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Don't think we have a position of strength, just varying degrees of weakness.

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06-10-2013, 11:44 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Hell why stop there, why trade Franson for Seth Jones when Jones has not proved he can play in the NHL as Franson can.
You found fallacy. Congrats

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06-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #88
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Gardiner showed why we need him, and his skillset, against Boston.

Rielly isn't ready, an outside of Barkov/MacKinnon, there are no "can't miss" 1C prospects.

We'll be stronger, and much better, for keeping him. Edmonton needs a Franson more than a Gardiner anyway.

Also, the Boston model proves you can get great two-way centers in the later 1st-2nd round, so no need to blow a great asset on one.

Just a waste of a great asset, all for question marks.

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06-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
You found fallacy. Congrats
Would you trade a good NHL proven player like Franson for a unknown NHL'er like Seth Jones?

Testing to see if you can be consistent.

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06-10-2013, 11:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Would you trade a good NHL proven player like Franson for a unknown NHL'er like Seth Jones?

Testing to see if you can be consistent.
But I'm not the one comparing Gardiner in the first place, you are. My point was to keep the player with loads of talent we have and you tried to change the point to a comparison of talent ie Franson-Jones. Misdirection only works on children chum. Try swaying me with something of substance instead of changing the goal line

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06-10-2013, 11:50 PM
  #91
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Playoffs.

GP G. A. Pts. Pims
15 4 31 35 24

That's a special playoff run. Wanna take a guess at who's numbers those were?

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06-10-2013, 11:51 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Radek Faksa, Mikhail Grigorenko or Zemgus Girgensons? Take away that pre-draft sizzle and you're basically moving a very promising NHL player for a lot of question marks, not to mention delaying your team's schedule by having to wait for someone significantly younger than the core.

The Leafs have

Kessel
JVR
Gardiner
Reimer
Kulemin
Kadri
Frattin
Franson
Colborne
Gunnarsson

all drafted between 2005 and 2009. It seems pretty clear this is roughly the age bracket they're trying to coordinate their team around. Shifting arguably a top three asset from this age group for a huge question mark at center is just nuts.
I was going to respond to this thread, but honestly couldn't put it any better than this. So I'll just quote Stephen's post.

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06-10-2013, 11:51 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankuptheSnakes View Post
Gardiner showed why we need him, and his skillset, against Boston.
He played great but he also assisted on Bergeron's series winning OT goal. There are still question marks with Jake.

Quote:
Rielly isn't ready, an outside of Barkov/MacKinnon, there are no "can't miss" 1C prospects.
We're likely not winning the Stanley Cup next season. Rielly will be ready when it's our time.

Quote:
We'll be stronger, and much better, for keeping him. Edmonton needs a Franson more than a Gardiner anyway.
We need Kadri/Monahan more than we need Gardiner/Rielly.

Quote:
Also, the Boston model proves you can get great two-way centers in the later 1st-2nd round, so no need to blow a great asset on one.
It may take 10 years before we can get a David Krejci in the late 1st or 2nd.

That's delusional thinking.

Quote:
Just a waste of a great asset, all for question marks.
How is it a waste of an asset when you're getting a 8.5B rated centre prospect?

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06-10-2013, 11:53 PM
  #94
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lol at the guy who cares about HF 8.5 ranking system.

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06-10-2013, 11:54 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Realistically it will cost us either Rielly or Gardiner.

Rielly is 205 lbs of muscle, and is probably better defensively than Gardiner will be when both reach their primes, so if we had to lose one, we may as well reunite Schultz with his best buddy.

Yep, Horvat is going to be a heck of a player, ordinary players do not play shutdown C and score 16 goals in 21 playoff games.
His ability to shutdown the oppositions top guys (PKs as well, top unit I believe) is the main reason I want him. I think of him as a younger version of McClemant with better goal scoring ability. Could be a fantastic #2 guy for years to come, #1 if all of his offense translates.

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06-10-2013, 11:55 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
But I'm not the one comparing Gardiner in the first place, you are. My point was to keep the player with loads of talent we have and you tried to change the point to a comparison of talent ie Franson-Jones. Misdirection only works on children chum. Try swaying me with something of substance instead of changing the goal line
If you think Gardiner is miles ahead of Horvat or Monahan in talent, you know little of the game. Gardiner is still very much an unfinished player that can go either way. Ignore his up and mostly down season last year?

I am not interested in swaying your opinion, it does not matter to me, I was merely pointing to a faulty argument you tried to portray. Jones is unproven, has he played a NHL game? Some were saying Erik Johnson and comparing him to this player.

No your argument was weak to begin with, thus disproven.

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06-10-2013, 11:55 PM
  #97
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lol at the guy who cares about HF 8.5 ranking system.
Well you're on HFBoards.com, so...

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06-10-2013, 11:56 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
His ability to shutdown the oppositions top guys (PKs as well, top unit I believe) is the main reason I want him. I think of him as a younger version of McClemant with better goal scoring ability. Could be a fantastic #2 guy for years to come, #1 if all of his offense translates.
He can't even score PPG in junior and you think he will be and you think he has #1C potential?

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06-10-2013, 11:57 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
lol at the guy who cares about HF 8.5 ranking system.
It's like people who go ga-ga over star rankings of football recruits.

The reality is, we have a 22/23yo puck mover who can REALLY play, and was huge for us in the playoffs, regardless of a gaffe that any defenseman could make in game 7.

Let's toss him away on a whim, for a chance at a guy who could make an impact....

Nyet.

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06-11-2013, 12:00 AM
  #100
Teeder9
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
If you think Gardiner is miles ahead of Horvat or Monahan in talent, you know little of hockey. That's the blunt truth.

I am not interested in swaying your opinion, it does not matter to me, I was merely pointing to a faulty argument you tried to portray. Jones is unproven, has he played a NHL game? Some were saying Erik Johnson and comparing him to this player.

No your argument was weak to begin with, thus disproven.
Disproven? You really don't get it do you? I didn't say Gardiner was miles ahead, but I know why you did. This is what happens when one doesn't know how to respond with reason and intelligence. They make a statement, attribute it to someone, then call them stupid. Look up the following words for me.

Straw man, adult

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