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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) V

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06-10-2013, 03:41 PM
  #126
shutehinside
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
and thus it began
More like

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06-10-2013, 03:45 PM
  #127
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DiPietro + Griffin Reinhart + Matt Martin

Kaberle + Diaz + ????
_________________________________


For NYI to accept we would need to add more. Beaulieu ? Collberg? 34th ? Desharnais ? Gorges ?
Man, you guys don't get it. Molson will not throw out 20+M to marginally improve the team. He would laugh at your proposal. NYI would have to add.

Maybe someone will buy out DiPietro, but I'll believe it when it happens. Some crazy owner may throw out his money, but he'll ask for a solid return, not prospects or ONE mid-first round pick. And at this point, the league may very well block the trade. They certainly don't want Tavares out of NY.

So can we please stop with these ridiculous proposals? Can we at least wait until, ONE such deal even minor, actually happens?

My guess is that there won't be that much amnesty buy outs and no 10M+ buy outs. GM's may get rid of bad contract will little term left (i.e. Kaberle, Gomez Redden etc.), and that's it.

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06-10-2013, 05:17 PM
  #128
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Please no more. Volchenkov is done and Penner gets hurt eating pancakes. I would do this if we are tanking but this just hurts the team.
Jokes aside, Penner has had a relatively healthy career. He is more skilled than Bickell, and will probably require less salary and term.

Volchenkov isn't what he was, and isn't what he's getting paid... but IMO he can still contribute. Far more than Fistric, for example.

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06-10-2013, 06:15 PM
  #129
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Just to add some data to the buyouts enthusiasts and wrt to DiPietro type trades.

In 1988 Wayne Gretzky was traded for 15M. Other parts (McSorley, Carson and draft picks) were involved, of course. But the bulk of the trade was Gretzky for 15M.

Adjusted for inflation, it's about 30M nowadays. So, with a 30M buyout, we're talking about generational talent trade.

And that was without salary cap, when you could potentially bury any underperforming player anyway. Today's buy outs are even more valuable than cash, as the team save money AND cap space.

So for a 20M buyout, we could lower our expectations a little bit. If NYI wants me to take DiPietro, Tavares HAS to be in the trade (and I can send other parts, of course).

So yeah, unlikely.

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06-10-2013, 06:32 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Just to add some data to the buyouts enthusiasts and wrt to DiPietro type trades.

In 1988 Wayne Gretzky was traded for 15M. Other parts (McSorley, Carson and draft picks) were involved, of course. But the bulk of the trade was Gretzky for 15M.

Adjusted for inflation, it's about 30M nowadays. So, with a 30M buyout, we're talking about generational talent trade.

And that was without salary cap, when you could potentially bury any underperforming player anyway. Today's buy outs are even more valuable than cash, as the team save money AND cap space.

So for a 20M buyout, we could lower our expectations a little bit. If NYI wants me to take DiPietro, Tavares HAS to be in the trade (and I can send other parts, of course).

So yeah, unlikely.
DiPietro >= Gretzky

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06-10-2013, 06:46 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Just to add some data to the buyouts enthusiasts and wrt to DiPietro type trades.

In 1988 Wayne Gretzky was traded for 15M. Other parts (McSorley, Carson and draft picks) were involved, of course. But the bulk of the trade was Gretzky for 15M.

Adjusted for inflation, it's about 30M nowadays. So, with a 30M buyout, we're talking about generational talent trade.

And that was without salary cap, when you could potentially bury any underperforming player anyway. Today's buy outs are even more valuable than cash, as the team save money AND cap space.

So for a 20M buyout, we could lower our expectations a little bit. If NYI wants me to take DiPietro, Tavares HAS to be in the trade (and I can send other parts, of course).

So yeah, unlikely.
The only data you need is both parties involved in the Gretzky deal were career scam artists.

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06-10-2013, 07:09 PM
  #132
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The only data you need is both parties involved in the Gretzky deal were career scam artists.
True. But it's the most well known example of a player being traded for cash, which is what we're talking about with these buyouts.

I know it's not the same, the game has changed a lot etc. But a DiPietro buyout trade would be in that ballpark: 20M will go one way to the Isles ownership pockets (i.e. you take one of their expenses away) and an elite player has to go the other way.

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06-10-2013, 07:14 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
DiPietro >= Gretzky
No. DiPietro is irrelevant to the discussion. What we're talking about is helping the Isles owner to save around 20M in exchange for some hockey assets.

In the past, such an exchange happenned and the best player in the history of the game fetched only 15M (30M in 2013 dollars). Hence why I'm saying that taking on DiPietro's contract is worth waaaaayyy much more than a first round pick or a prospect.

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06-10-2013, 07:16 PM
  #134
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Plekanec + 2nd (MTL) for Bobby Ryan is something I could get behind!

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06-10-2013, 07:29 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Just to add some data to the buyouts enthusiasts and wrt to DiPietro type trades.

In 1988 Wayne Gretzky was traded for 15M. Other parts (McSorley, Carson and draft picks) were involved, of course. But the bulk of the trade was Gretzky for 15M.

Adjusted for inflation, it's about 30M nowadays. So, with a 30M buyout, we're talking about generational talent trade.

And that was without salary cap, when you could potentially bury any underperforming player anyway. Today's buy outs are even more valuable than cash, as the team save money AND cap space.

So for a 20M buyout, we could lower our expectations a little bit. If NYI wants me to take DiPietro, Tavares HAS to be in the trade (and I can send other parts, of course).

So yeah, unlikely.
Wow, interesting point!

Although, the league has changed a lot since then. Now, owners make a lot more money that they use to 25 yrs ago with NHL being much more profitable.

I really dont think MTL would be involved in anything like that, but I think a trade, even without Tavares, plausible. It's just fun to throw ideas around.

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06-10-2013, 07:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by PanicAttack View Post
Wow, interesting point!

Although, the league has changed a lot since then. Now, owners make a lot more money that they use to 25 yrs ago with NHL being much more profitable.

I really dont think MTL would be involved in anything like that, but I think a trade, even without Tavares, plausible. It's just fun to throw ideas around.
TBH, I'm not even entirely sure the NHL would let it go through.

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06-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #137
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If NYI will part with El Nino & the 15th pick to go with the DiPietro contract, I think the Habs would part with the 25th & 55th picks (or maybe LeBlanc or Desharnais instead of #55) & Kaberle...would make sense, Molson can afford the buyout to make the Habs this much better.

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06-10-2013, 08:06 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Plekanec + 2nd (MTL) for Bobby Ryan is something I could get behind!
Don't know whether you're joking or not? Bobby Ryan wants to play in Philadelphia his hometown. Anyways his ego is way to big for a city the size of Montreal, then again NY,NY is probably to small come to think about it. The Habs want hard working, team oriented players that want to be the best team, Only!

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Old
06-10-2013, 08:23 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Don't know whether you're joking or not? Bobby Ryan wants to play in Philadelphia his hometown. Anyways his ego is way to big for a city the size of Montreal, then again NY,NY is probably to small come to think about it. The Habs want hard working, team oriented players that want to be the best team, Only!
I just think his style of play fits perfectly with the direction of the club. The same reason I'd love T.J. Oshie from St. Louis.

Obviously if there are some personality flaws it would be something to look at and not make a deal for him. However, it's impossible for us to know how he feels or that sort of insider information.

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06-10-2013, 08:26 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
No. DiPietro is irrelevant to the discussion. What we're talking about is helping the Isles owner to save around 20M in exchange for some hockey assets.

In the past, such an exchange happenned and the best player in the history of the game fetched only 15M (30M in 2013 dollars). Hence why I'm saying that taking on DiPietro's contract is worth waaaaayyy much more than a first round pick or a prospect.
That actually makes no sense.

Can't even comment on how little sense that makes. Sorry but no.

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06-10-2013, 08:59 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Just to add some data to the buyouts enthusiasts and wrt to DiPietro type trades.

In 1988 Wayne Gretzky was traded for 15M. Other parts (McSorley, Carson and draft picks) were involved, of course. But the bulk of the trade was Gretzky for 15M.

Adjusted for inflation, it's about 30M nowadays. So, with a 30M buyout, we're talking about generational talent trade.

And that was without salary cap, when you could potentially bury any underperforming player anyway. Today's buy outs are even more valuable than cash, as the team save money AND cap space.

So for a 20M buyout, we could lower our expectations a little bit. If NYI wants me to take DiPietro, Tavares HAS to be in the trade (and I can send other parts, of course).

So yeah, unlikely.
Wrong.

1) you are underestimating inflation. For the NHL, inflation is 8%/year, and it has been 25 years, so 15 million -> 102 million dollars after inflation.

Man... Did you actually think the consumer price index was relevant to pro sports...

2) the kings also got jimmy Carson, Martin gelinas, and two 1st rounders.

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06-10-2013, 09:04 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
TBH, I'm not even entirely sure the NHL would let it go through.
So far this is the only relevant counterargument.

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06-10-2013, 11:23 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Wrong.

1) you are underestimating inflation. For the NHL, inflation is 8%/year, and it has been 25 years, so 15 million -> 102 million dollars after inflation.

Man... Did you actually think the consumer price index was relevant to pro sports...

2) the kings also got jimmy Carson, Martin gelinas, and two 1st rounders.
As I said, my example is off/simplified etc. Just wanted to have a ballpark figure to look at. Your point is good.

But on the other hand: 1-I'm not sure hockey inflation has been a steady 8% for the last 25 years. 2-for the owner, this is not 'hockey' money, it's real money and he's hoping to cash on that i.e. the money goes back outside the hockey realm rapidly.

We can play with the numbers, but my point is that a prime Wayne Gretzky, the greatest player ever, was not worth THAT much money. You guys are willing to give away 20M for a mid-first round pick, so how much would you give to get Crosby??

I maintain my prediction: there will be, at most, one or two 'big' buyouts (say north of 10M in total money). I'd be tempted to say there won't be any, in fact. Forget about Bryz, DiPietro, Luongo, Lecavalier. None of these will be bought out.

So we can forget about these trades, basically. As overlords wrote, the trades would be so ridiculous that the league would block them.

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Old
06-11-2013, 01:57 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
As I said, my example is off/simplified etc. Just wanted to have a ballpark figure to look at. Your point is good.

But on the other hand: 1-I'm not sure hockey inflation has been a steady 8% for the last 25 years. 2-for the owner, this is not 'hockey' money, it's real money and he's hoping to cash on that i.e. the money goes back outside the hockey realm rapidly.

We can play with the numbers, but my point is that a prime Wayne Gretzky, the greatest player ever, was not worth THAT much money. You guys are willing to give away 20M for a mid-first round pick, so how much would you give to get Crosby??

I maintain my prediction: there will be, at most, one or two 'big' buyouts (say north of 10M in total money). I'd be tempted to say there won't be any, in fact. Forget about Bryz, DiPietro, Luongo, Lecavalier. None of these will be bought out.

So we can forget about these trades, basically. As overlords wrote, the trades would be so ridiculous that the league would block them.
Something ridiculous like this :

15th 2013
76th 2013
106th 2013
116th 2013
136th 2013
166th 2013
196th 2013
Niederreiter, Nino
Griffin Reinhart
Brock Nelson
DiPietro $36 million over the remaining eight years of his contract.

VS

Moen
Kaberle
Desharnais
36th 2013
3rd 2014
conditionnal pick 2014
conditionnal pick 2015
conditionnal pick 2016
conditionnal pick 2017

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Old
06-11-2013, 02:55 AM
  #145
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Another way to look at this is the following.
On a 7 years contract, this is about 4M per year.

So if you want a player like Malkin, those 30M allows you to offer 4M more.

About the 15M translated 25 years later, it is a good point.
What was the payroll of teams when Gretzky was traded?
If team payroll was around 30M, then 15M represents 50% of the payroll.
So 50% of the payroll would be 32M.

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Old
06-11-2013, 03:04 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
As I said, my example is off/simplified etc. Just wanted to have a ballpark figure to look at. Your point is good.

But on the other hand: 1-I'm not sure hockey inflation has been a steady 8% for the last 25 years. 2-for the owner, this is not 'hockey' money, it's real money and he's hoping to cash on that i.e. the money goes back outside the hockey realm rapidly.

We can play with the numbers, but my point is that a prime Wayne Gretzky, the greatest player ever, was not worth THAT much money. You guys are willing to give away 20M for a mid-first round pick, so how much would you give to get Crosby??

I maintain my prediction: there will be, at most, one or two 'big' buyouts (say north of 10M in total money). I'd be tempted to say there won't be any, in fact. Forget about Bryz, DiPietro, Luongo, Lecavalier. None of these will be bought out.

So we can forget about these trades, basically. As overlords wrote, the trades would be so ridiculous that the league would block them.
Your point makes total sense.
Something like Tavares or equivalent would have to come back.

About buy-outs, there will be more than you think as the SCap is going down and some teams (Flyers, Vancouver, Boston, etc.) will have to take some measures to stay under the cap.
Some are already in trouble, others will be with upcoming contracts (RFA).
For example: Rask is probably going to get 6-7M and Boston has 5.8M is SCap (after loosing Jagr, Horton, Ference).
Rumor is that Bryz is going to be bought. It is either him or Brière.

Interesting Summer.

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06-11-2013, 03:06 AM
  #147
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If the Islanders buy out Dipietro: does this increase the portion they get from revenue sharing?
If we buy back Dipietro, does this decrease the money we are giving for revenue sharing?

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06-11-2013, 04:53 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
If the Islanders buy out Dipietro: does this increase the portion they get from revenue sharing?
If we buy back Dipietro, does this decrease the money we are giving for revenue sharing?
we may have a paycut due to the money buried !!??

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06-11-2013, 05:29 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Wrong.

1) you are underestimating inflation. For the NHL, inflation is 8%/year, and it has been 25 years, so 15 million -> 102 million dollars after inflation.

Man... Did you actually think the consumer price index was relevant to pro sports...

2) the kings also got jimmy Carson, Martin gelinas, and two 1st rounders.
huh, no... the Oilers did.

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06-11-2013, 05:32 AM
  #150
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can i ask where this Di Pietro trade scenario came from? Did someone link him with the habs, or sheer nonsense?

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