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Old
06-11-2013, 02:43 AM
  #51
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Would buffalo be interested in Bernier?

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06-11-2013, 03:46 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
Would buffalo be interested in Bernier?
I would be interested in Bernier but not willing to give up much in a return. I am willing to give Enroth a shot to be #1 with Leggio/Hackett fighting for the backup. I believe Hackett is waiver exempt for one more season too. The Sabres have goalie depth in Knapp and Liewen, though I think they will be quickly passed over by Makarov and Ullmark when they are ready to make the jump to the AHL.

So, Buffalo would be better off with a Bernier/Enroth combo but could get by with what they have if they trade Miller.

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06-11-2013, 03:58 AM
  #53
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I would be interested in Bernier but not willing to give up much in a return. I am willing to give Enroth a shot to be #1 with Leggio/Hackett fighting for the backup. I believe Hackett is waiver exempt for one more season too. The Sabres have goalie depth in Knapp and Liewen, though I think they will be quickly passed over by Makarov and Ullmark when they are ready to make the jump to the AHL.

So, Buffalo would be better off with a Bernier/Enroth combo but could get by with what they have if they trade Miller.
What kind of package would you take from us to get Vanek with bernier? Would Bernier+ Pearson work with Buffalo eating salary?

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06-11-2013, 09:18 AM
  #54
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I think Vanek would be exactly what the Kings need, a proven goalscoring LW who is strong in front of the net. Unfortunately the Kings can barely afford the crew they have already, adding 7M in salary would be catastrophic. Buffalo would have to retain 3M minimum, and I can't see that being too popular. Even then the Kings would have to move some salary, likely Stoll.

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06-11-2013, 09:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
They are trading for the rights to do what they want with him. If a player like Vanek hits FA, 15 teams want him and his price is sky high and its a crapshoot to see who gets him. A team that wants to build with him will want to avoid that mess and will certainly do their due diligence as to whether they believe they can re-sign him or not. IMO, there will be multiple teams that will want to go this route with this player. His price will absolutely not be the same as a rental.
I never said his price would be the same as a "deadline rental"
Likewise, his price will not be the same as a long term player (Richards, Carter)

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06-11-2013, 09:34 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
What kind of package would you take from us to get Vanek with bernier? Would Bernier+ Pearson work with Buffalo eating salary?
Toffoli + Bernier + Forbert

Don't like it? Look at the Jordan Staal deal. It's what it will cost.

Sutter (Toffoli) + 8 (Bernier, give or take) + Dumoulin (Forbert)

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06-11-2013, 09:44 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
What kind of package would you take from us to get Vanek with bernier? Would Bernier+ Pearson work with Buffalo eating salary?
No, not even close. Bernier cannot be the main piece in a Vanek deal. Pearson is not the main piece either. Toffoli is really the only prospect/young talent I'd be interested in from the Kings as the main piece coming back the other way. The others are nice as add ins but without Toffoli I don't see the deal happening. WRT Bernier, I really like his game but would rather roll with Enroth than give up significant assets for him. Bernier has been fantastic over several seasons in a backup/temp lead dog role during injuries but has not been the lead dog for a full season yet. Plenty of goalies have faltered when put in that lead dog role for the full season and been relegated back to backup/split time guys. Do I think Bernier can get the job done? Yes. Am I 100% confident? No. I'd be upset if we traded Vanek for that. Vanek for Toffoli and Bernier with us adding Enroth I would do but again, not interested in anything other than Toffoli in the prospect/young talent area. Not insulting Bernier's ability, just not interested in him as the major piece for Vanek.

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06-11-2013, 09:48 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
What kind of package would you take from us to get Vanek with bernier? Would Bernier+ Pearson work with Buffalo eating salary?
With Buffalo eating salary? No, not close.
I highly doubt Regier would go for any package where a goalie is the main piece coming back. We have a ton of depth behind Miller already and 2 guys who are potential starters w/ NHL experience in Enroth and Hackett.

Let's compare to the Pominville deal...You're getting slightly less game with Vanek than Min did of Pommer, buy you're also trading for the better player, so seems like a fair comparison to me.
Bernier>Hackett
Pearson< or =Larsson
Nothing<<<<<1st + 2nd

Plus, I imagine when you say "eat some salary," you're talking about a sizable chunk, much more than we're eating of Pominville's.


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06-11-2013, 09:49 AM
  #59
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I'd think the basis of a deal would be vanek for tiffoli and a decent size cap dump. Or another decent prospect/pick and buffalo retains salary

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06-11-2013, 09:58 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Toffoli + Bernier + Forbert

Don't like it? Look at the Jordan Staal deal. It's what it will cost.

Sutter (Toffoli) + 8 (Bernier, give or take) + Dumoulin (Forbert)
Awful comparision and it's been pointed out to you before. Staal was heading to a situation where Carolina knew they were going to be able to re-sign him. As much as you insist the same will happen with Vanek you have no idea that it will. Also Vanek and Staal play different positions and have completely different skill sets. Not to mention Staal was considerably younger when he was traded.

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06-11-2013, 10:04 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Awful comparision and it's been pointed out to you before. Staal was heading to a situation where Carolina knew they were going to be able to re-sign him. As much as you insist the same will happen with Vanek you have no idea that it will. Also Vanek and Staal play different positions and have completely different skill sets. Not to mention Staal was considerably younger when he was traded.
Why wouldn't it? You act as if there is no communication between Darcy and other GM's. Why wouldn't he try to find a team that was interested in signing him long term, which there most definitely will be a number of?

As far as Staal being younger and a different position, well Vanek is better, so there is that.

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06-11-2013, 10:11 AM
  #62
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Just asking so trading for Vanek and a 30% cap relief requires a big over payment. Thanks.

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06-11-2013, 10:17 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
Just asking so trading for Vanek and a 30% cap relief requires a big over payment. Thanks.
That's not an overpayment, it's standard for a player of his calibre. But I do think, because Vanek doesn't have a NTC, Darcy will be able to play GM's off of each other to drive up the price, unlike Nash and unlike Staal.

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06-11-2013, 11:07 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
What kind of package would you take from us to get Vanek with bernier? Would Bernier+ Pearson work with Buffalo eating salary?
I would trade you Vanek and Enroth for Bernier, Toffoli, and a 2014 First.

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06-11-2013, 11:11 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Toffoli + Bernier + Forbert

Don't like it? Look at the Jordan Staal deal. It's what it will cost.

Sutter (Toffoli) + 8 (Bernier, give or take) + Dumoulin (Forbert)
23 year old center, guaranteed to sign an extension
not a good comparison

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06-11-2013, 11:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Why wouldn't it? You act as if there is no communication between Darcy and other GM's. Why wouldn't he try to find a team that was interested in signing him long term, which there most definitely will be a number of?

As far as Staal being younger and a different position, well Vanek is better, so there is that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
But I do think, because Vanek doesn't have a NTC, Darcy will be able to play GM's off of each other to drive up the price, unlike Nash and unlike Staal.
You can't have it both ways...

You act as if communications between GMs, means Vanek will agree to re-sign...

If Darcy does engage Vanek/agent on re-signing with a team, it significantly reduces the # of teams Darcy is able to negotiate with.

You're hypothetical is massively skewed in Buffalo's favor to allow you to argue for a greater return

not well thought out

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06-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #67
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Vanek with salary retained for Toffoli is a good deal for Buffalo, maybe Buffalo squeezes Jarret Stoll into the deal (short term 3rd line/depth center solution)

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06-11-2013, 11:23 AM
  #68
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would bernier williams and martinez work for vanek at 3.55million ? i think this way we could have a top 6 like this

vanek kopitar toffolli
brown richards carter

Also need to keep 1st pick because as u bufflao fans know we dont have 2nd for 2 years after this one.

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06-11-2013, 11:29 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
would bernier williams and martinez work for vanek at 3.55million ? i think this way we could have a top 6 like this

vanek kopitar toffolli
brown richards carter

Also need to keep 1st pick because as u bufflao fans know we dont have 2nd for 2 years after this one.
Nothing there does much for Buffalo. Buffalo is in full rebuild. We have 2 young goaltenders in Enroth and Hackett. Bernier would be nice to add to the picture of competition when Miller is moved... but the rest of that package is useless in our rebuild.

Vanek is going to need to be traded to a team with a nice prospect pool, where they can afford to give up one of their top 5 young asset (Like Minnesota giving up Larsson for Pominiville because they have a deep prospect pool)...

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06-11-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
You can't have it both ways...

You act as if communications between GMs, means Vanek will agree to re-sign...

If Darcy does engage Vanek/agent on re-signing with a team, it significantly reduces the # of teams Darcy is able to negotiate with.

You're hypothetical is massively skewed in Buffalo's favor to allow you to argue for a greater return

not well thought out
I agree that it will come down to teams that want to re-sign him and that he is willing to re-sign with. If there is more than one team, Darcy has leverage. IMO, there will be many teams. Vanek is highly saught after. If a team is acquiring him, they are trying to win ASAP, which is what Vanek wants.

The man has a family. I doubt he wants to be traded to a team in which he has to relocate to, hit FA and relocate his family again. Just my opinion, but I think there will be more teams that meet the criteria than you are suggesting.

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06-11-2013, 11:38 AM
  #71
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Nothing there does much for Buffalo. Buffalo is in full rebuild. We have 2 young goaltenders in Enroth and Hackett. Bernier would be nice to add to the picture of competition when Miller is moved... but the rest of that package is useless in our rebuild.

Vanek is going to need to be traded to a team with a nice prospect pool, where they can afford to give up one of their top 5 young asset (Like Minnesota giving up Larsson for Pominiville because they have a deep prospect pool)...
well la would need to move salary thats why i need to include williams.He can be flipped at the deadline easily with his experience in the playoffs for a 1st and prospect. Martinez is a young top 4 puckmoving defenseman who would fit into a rebuild struture to me but if u dont want him i could add pearson to the proposal instead. As stated above eroth and bernier is a better goaltending option then eroth and hackett La has a good prospect pool if u want u can add one of king nolan kozun as well

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06-11-2013, 11:47 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I agree that it will come down to teams that want to re-sign him and that he is willing to re-sign with. If there is more than one team, Darcy has leverage. IMO, there will be many teams. Vanek is highly saught after. If a team is acquiring him, they are trying to win ASAP, which is what Vanek wants.

The man has a family. I doubt he wants to be traded to a team in which he has to relocate to, hit FA and relocate his family again. Just my opinion, but I think there will be more teams that meet the criteria than you are suggesting.
so much presumption...

ps most players wouldn't relocate after being traded with 1 year left... they would ride it out

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06-11-2013, 11:53 AM
  #73
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well la would need to move salary thats why i need to include williams.He can be flipped at the deadline easily with his experience in the playoffs for a 1st and prospect. Martinez is a young top 4 puckmoving defenseman who would fit into a rebuild struture to me but if u dont want him i could add pearson to the proposal instead. As stated above eroth and bernier is a better goaltending option then eroth and hackett La has a good prospect pool if u want u can add one of king nolan kozun as well
Bernier may be better than Enroth -- though it's certainly debatable, since Enroth has similar career numbers behind a worse defensive team -- but the upgrade isn't anywhere near significant enough (if it is one) to be worth giving up Vanek unless the rest of the package has quality, need-filling pieces.

Simply put: I don't think Bernier has the kind of value to Buffalo that Kings fans seem to think he would. He's a nice piece, but he's small and not an obvious upgrade over what we currently have The Kings would get better value trading him elsewhere, and Buffalo could definitely get more tempting packages for Vanek Bernier+ some stuff that doesn't even kind of help the rebuild.

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06-11-2013, 11:55 AM
  #74
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Williams would be good as salary + top 6 + defense + cup leadership coming back to Buffalo, but he's not the centerpiece of the deal, Toffoli is or it's a non-starter.

Honestly, I think Ottawa's the call for Vanek, and I hate the prospect of seeing Karlsson feed him stretch passes for the next while. Smith + Silfverberg + pick/prospect.

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06-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #75
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well la would need to move salary thats why i need to include williams.He can be flipped at the deadline easily with his experience in the playoffs for a 1st and prospect. Martinez is a young top 4 puckmoving defenseman who would fit into a rebuild struture to me but if u dont want him i could add pearson to the proposal instead. As stated above eroth and bernier is a better goaltending option then eroth and hackett La has a good prospect pool if u want u can add one of king nolan kozun as well

- Buffalo will take back Stoll in a salary move, over Williams

- every team has a few of their own Alec Martinez's, he holds little to no trade value. We moved TJ Brennan for a 5th rounder. Calling him "a young top 4" is quite laughable.

you put together a package of expendables... between Buffalo retaining salary on Vanek's deal, and taking Williams back, you basically upgrade williams to Vanek for free at the cost of you're backup goaltender and a depth defensemen... it was a terrible offer....

you're going to have to do better.

We'll take Williams or Stoll (salary dump) and retain 50% of Vanek salary, in effect giving you Vanek and no additional cost... but in return, it's going to cost Toffoli.

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