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CHL (junior) considering banning European goalies; UPD 2013 last draft, 1st rnd only

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06-04-2013, 06:58 PM
  #76
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Although you may be right that we unfairly criticize Canadian goalies, how many conference final teams have gotten there due to their goaltending? LAK, but that was with Quick, CHI has had a stellar performance from Crawford, but I'd argue that he isn't the reason they are there. PIT has made it in spite of poor play from Fleury. Boston is a combination effort.
Im trying to think when it was that a Goalie seriously, like almost totally carried his team deep, and the last one I can think of is perhaps Smith with Phoenix or Halak with Montreal, but they didnt win the whole enchilada. Superb goaltending can only take you so far so ya, agree there blues, LA, CHI, BOS.... all balanced & talented teams for the most part.

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06-04-2013, 08:15 PM
  #77
Canadiens1958
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Chl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Im trying to think when it was that a Goalie seriously, like almost totally carried his team deep, and the last one I can think of is perhaps Smith with Phoenix or Halak with Montreal, but they didnt win the whole enchilada. Superb goaltending can only take you so far so ya, agree there blues, LA, CHI, BOS.... all balanced & talented teams for the most part.
At the NHL level the goaltending difference from team to team is not great. From CHL to AHL it is of difference maker proportions. End of season junior promoted goalies - 2007 Carey Price to Hamilton:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...priceca01.html

Have produced unexpected championships.

This year Saskatoon got a lot of mileage from Andrey Makarov, an import, to reach the Memorial Cup as the host city. Strategic pick-up after Lewiston in the Q folded:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...010052013.html

There are certain advantages, shortcuts to success with goalies, late season trades, etc but they are not limited to European goalies.

Proper team management is the biggest issue as it has been for years.

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06-04-2013, 08:25 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Proper team management is the biggest issue as it has been for years.
Absolutely... and what was the previous Import max in the QMJHL, and does one also exist in the Quebec Midget AAA League?

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06-04-2013, 08:50 PM
  #79
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Aaa

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Absolutely... and what was the previous Import max in the QMJHL, and does one also exist in the Quebec Midget AAA League?
CHL rules apply. Midget AAA does not have an entry draft. Players are streamed from within a region with little opportunity or motivation for imports to jump the line.

No leverage in choosing the post Midget junior league or team.

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06-04-2013, 09:25 PM
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Russia did something similar a few years back for the same reason, looks like it worked out for them.

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06-11-2013, 12:13 AM
  #81
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http://thestar.blogs.com/thespin/201...nitiative.html

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Within four years or less, there will be no more European goalies playing major junior hockey in Canada and the U.S. after the CHL officially moved to make goaltenders ineligible to be selected in the league's import draft starting next year.
...
The change was officially announced Monday night at the OHL's "Protect the Net" symposium, a gathering designed to address the "crisis" in Canadian goaltending, specifically in Ontario.

For the 2013 CHL import draft, import goalies can be selected by any of the 60 teams only in the first round, and those goalies plus others currently playing in the league can play out their full junior eligibility.

Starting in 2014, import goalies will be banned from the draft, and will have no other way to become eligible to play in the CHL. The current limit of two imports per CHL team won't change, but ultimately those roster spots will belong to only forwards or defencemen.

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06-11-2013, 12:46 AM
  #82
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i wonder if there will be a spillover effect to the USHL? Will euro goalies start looking towards that league, or will they avoid it because of the costs?

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06-11-2013, 04:53 AM
  #83
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Lost a lot of respect for the CHL after this move.

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06-11-2013, 07:30 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i wonder if there will be a spillover effect to the USHL? Will euro goalies start looking towards that league, or will they avoid it because of the costs?
Whether it's the USHL or elsewhere, it certainly can't hurt the leagues that now have a larger talent pool.

I understand what the CHL is trying to accomplish here, but this seems like a very insular and backward way to go about it.

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06-11-2013, 09:39 AM
  #85
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CHL Development

The issue is the development of junior talent. During the last two season the CHL has made great strides eliminating the fighters from the various teams/leagues. The 2012-13 season saw 11 member CHL teams without a 100 PIM player on the roster. CHL leader in PIMs had 193.This has created a situation where the number of skilled 15 and 16 year olds in the various leagues has increased. Prime example would be the QMJHL midget draft held last Saturday, where over 90% of the players drafted in the first two rounds had the potential to spend five developmental years in the Q. The typical non-Euro, CHL entry player has 3-5 season potential, 2 to 3 season pre NHL Entry draft, 1 to 2 season post NHL Entry draft.

Rarely the case for Import Draft players, especially goalies. Christopher Gibson played four seasons with Chicoutimi in the Q.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=123448

155 games over four seasons or app 38-39 out of a 68 game season, slightly sub .500 record. Not worth the cost.

Two other European goalies - Marvin Cupper, Germany,with Shawinigan, David Honzik, Czech with Cape Breton played on bad teams and were far from difference makers. Again not worth the cost. Just as easy to wind up in the bottom three with local 16 year olds who may be around thru the age of 20.

A skater unless hurt or at an international tournament will play all the games for 1-3 seasons. So the transfer fees may be recovered.

The USHL is in the same situation. 2012-13 season there were 5 European goalies, mainly Swedish. None made a difference even though they were amongst the oldest players in the league. Conversely the USHL also had three goalies from North Carolina, 2 Cary, 1 Raleigh.

Just business based on years of results.

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06-11-2013, 09:39 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Lost a lot of respect for the CHL after this move.
Why? It's the Canadian hockey league, and if they wish to refocus and become a better developmental league for Canadian and American goaltenders then what's wrong with it? It isn't as if there aren't any leagues over in Europe and the CHL has a monopoly on major junior hockey.

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06-11-2013, 10:01 AM
  #87
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A very strange decision. Would be like banning Canadian point guards from the NCAA.

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06-11-2013, 10:03 AM
  #88
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Can't wait to see what their next move will be when Canada doesn't win a World Junior Gold in 16, 17 and 18 thanks to weak goaltending.

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06-11-2013, 10:19 AM
  #89
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Is Don Cherry running the CHL now?

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06-11-2013, 10:36 AM
  #90
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Is Don Cherry running the CHL now?
Some hypocrisy on that front. As an owner of the Mississauga Ice Dogs he refused to have his team participate in the Import Draft altogether, however, after the first 3 abysmal season of losing when Cherry then took over the Head Coaching duties, he reversed his position & signed Europeans. Didnt make much difference, Grapes going 11-47, not much better than his Rockies record of 19-48...

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06-11-2013, 11:38 AM
  #91
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CHL Goalie Coaching

Another consideration is the state of goalie coaching in the CHL.

Not all CHL teams have goalie coaches on staff. Also in the Quebec some of the Midget AAA teams or school programs have better goalie coaches than some of the Q teams.

The money spent on import goalies would be better spent on developing or even hiring goalie coaches.

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06-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
The money spent on import goalies would be better spent on developing or even hiring goalie coaches.
Excellent suggestion, and despite my feelings pursuant to CHL teams not having access without limits to imports when one considers the high costs of transfer fee's & other costs associated with the process, a rather large imposition & bite, funds better spent on Coaching, Clinics' etc.

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06-11-2013, 01:35 PM
  #93
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I don't see how this is going to do anything.

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06-11-2013, 01:43 PM
  #94
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I don't see how this is going to do anything.
Count me in the same boat on this as well. This is reducing competition for the given roster spots. All it's doing is lowering the bottom, not raising the top.

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06-11-2013, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Count me in the same boat on this as well. This is reducing competition for the given roster spots. All it's doing is lowering the bottom, not raising the top.
To make Canadian goalies great again Hockey Canada needs to pick out children under the age of ten who have the potential to be big (Over 6'2) and show skill. Then Hockey Canada should pay for those children to go through extra training. To be honest, they should do it with skaters too. Pick out kids who show promise, and if their parents can't afford extra training like power skating or goalie school, pay for it.

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06-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #96
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The worst thing is that really, there is no "crisis" that they talk of.

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06-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #97
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Massive Fail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
To make Canadian goalies great again Hockey Canada needs to pick out children under the age of ten who have the potential to be big (Over 6'2) and show skill. Then Hockey Canada should pay for those children to go through extra training. To be honest, they should do it with skaters too. Pick out kids who show promise, and if their parents can't afford extra training like power skating or goalie school, pay for it.
This proved to be a massive fail in the 1990s when everyone was focused on size and the idea that skills could be taught.

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06-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #98
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I'm not sure exactly how many euro goalies there are in the CHL any given year, but I can't imagine it's much more than a dozen or so. You have 60 teams in the CHL. If Hockey Canada can't find the right man for the job amongst those remaining 110 ish goalies, chances are they aren't going to find him amongst the group of junior A talent that got cut because of those 12 guys.

Also if this is truly a CANADIAN goalie talent issue, then why aren't they banning American goalies?

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06-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #99
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Seems kind of unfair, but they have every right to do so. I'm not sure if it will make a difference, but it will give local goalies a better chance obviously.

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06-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
The worst thing is that really, there is no "crisis" that they talk of.
I wouldn't say their isn't a crisis, so to speak. Since 2003, only Marc-Andre Fluery Brian Elliot, Corey Crawford, Devan Dubnyk, Carey Price, Steve Mason and James Reimer have become starters or at least have made a significant impact on their teams at one point or another. You can throw Ward in there too, if you want. He was drafted in 02.

Couple that with dreadful performances in net at the World Juniors, and it does make you wonder what's going on. Now having said that, it doesn't mean that banning Euro goalies from the CHL is the answer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hockey Canada really needs to look at the cost and access to specialty coaching for the position. It's simply too expensive for kids to play in net, nevermind at an elite level.

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