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Habs - Tampa (Lecavalier buyout)

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Old
06-11-2013, 04:12 PM
  #76
BigDaddyLurch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino11 View Post
How about

Galagher + 55 overall + kaberle + thrower vs lecavalier + 3 overall

Tb save 30 mil and get a stud kid that have strong chance to win the Calder and get a young dman that was a 2 round last year and that he has been declare a steel from mtl that late and get the 55 overall in a deep draft and get kaberle who they will probably by out but for cheap !!

Mtl get a good pick in 3 overall but have to eat lecavalier salary for a long time ... Lecavalier would be a fan favourite in mtl
Lecavalier's contract is a buyout, plain and simple; his contract is a liability, not an asset.

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06-11-2013, 04:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
OK, first it's "your posts"; if you're (notice the correct usage) going to slag my posts, fix your own...next, Vinny hasn't even scored 60 points in 3 years; for his salary & cap hit, you can probably get both Richards & Iginla next year (around 3 for Richards & 4 for Iggy) to more than make up the loss...and lastly, in my opinion, a 30 million dollar savings is worth Drouin...how hard is this to figure out?
Because losing Drouin+Lecavalier means less chance of making the playoff, meaning less playoff money.

Lecavalier was over 0.73 ppg (which is 60 points in a 82 games season) in his last 10 seasons.

You do know he would be tied for the Art Ross with 60 points this year (which you are counting as a less than 60 points season), right? So that makes it 2 season, in which he played only 65 and 64 games, in the last 10 seasons he didn't have at least 60 points. He still had 25 and 22 goals those years.

Lecavalier is still serviceable and the owner will be happy to pay the 10 millions to buy him out in 2016 if needs be.

Per Cap Geek, buyout 2016-06-15

2016-17: $477,273
2017-18: $4,977,273
2018-19: $7,477,273
2019-20: $7,977,273
2020-21: $1,250,000
2021-22: $1,250,000
2022-23: $1,250,000
2023-24: $1,250,000

It also drops to 4.333 millions if the buy out is in 2017 and 1.667 million in 2018.

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06-11-2013, 04:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Because losing Drouin+Lecavalier means less chance of making the playoff, meaning less playoff money.
"Losing" Drouin (#3 goes to #25 and some smaller pieces) does nothing to playoff chances now (in a few years, maybe, if they don't use assets properly)..."losing" Vinny by using his cap hit & salary to get better players (which a 7.3 mill cap hit will get you...a much better player) helps make playoffs and last longer in them, hence increasing revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Lecavalier was over 0.73 ppg (which is 60 points in a 82 games season) in his last 10 seasons.

You do know he would be tied for the Art Ross with 60 points this year (which you are counting as a less than 60 points season), right? So that makes it 2 season, in which he played only 65 and 64 games, in the last 10 seasons he didn't have at least 60 points. He still had 25 and 22 goals those years.

Lecavalier is still serviceable and the owner will be happy to pay the 10 millions to buy him out in 2016 if needs be.

Per Cap Geek, buyout 2016-06-15

2016-17: $477,273
2017-18: $4,977,273
2018-19: $7,477,273
2019-20: $7,977,273
2020-21: $1,250,000
2021-22: $1,250,000
2022-23: $1,250,000
2023-24: $1,250,000

It also drops to 4.333 millions if the buy out is in 2017 and 1.667 million in 2018.
Vinny is 33, production is dropping, and injuries are racking up...his cap hit and salary are hurting the Lightning, whom could use the relief for a much better asset or multiple similar assets...I believe he needs to be bought out now, which is why I created this thread; if you don't agree, that's OK, you don't agree.

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06-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Vinny has two choices:

Get bought out by Tampa and hurt the team

or

Get bought out by another team that can afford it and help both teams


...either way, he gets bought out (if Tampa decides to do the buyout, he has no choice in the matter, so I'm leaving the option of them continuing to pay him for the next 7 years out)...he'll do it.
First off learn how a buyout works? If either Tampa Bay or Montreal buys out LeCavaliers contract it's for 2/3s of his remaining salary since he has 7 years left on his contrat it would be 2/3s of his salary x 14 years the 7 years is doubled so whatever his 2/3 equals about $31.2 million that is still owed divided by 14 years comes to about $2.2 million cap hit over 14 years. So you would be paying on it for 14 years not 7 years like your showing.

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06-11-2013, 04:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
First off learn how a buyout works? If either Tampa Bay or Montreal buys out LeCavaliers contract it's for 2/3s of his remaining salary since he has 7 years left on his contrat it would be 2/3s of his salary x 14 years the 7 years is doubled so whatever his 2/3 equals about $31.2 million that is still owed divided by 14 years comes to about $2.2 million cap hit over 14 years. So you would be paying on it for 14 years not 7 years like your showing.
Ummm, you misread my post (again); I said I was leaving the option of Tampa just paying him for the next 7 years out, you know, instead of buying him out (paying him to play, get it).

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06-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Ummm, you misread my post (again); I said I was leaving the option of Tampa just paying him for the next 7 years out, you know, instead of buying him out (paying him to play, get it).
Well then you need to make it a little more clearer, Because one part says buyout and another part says paying on the next 7 years. Tampa Bay does'nt have to buyout Vinny this year they still have the option of next year as well next years cap will be alot tighter then this years cap.

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06-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Lecavalier to Montreal threads have been happening with more then monthly regularity for the past 5 years or so and Tampa isn't interested in what you're selling. It doesn't matter what the rationalizations are and how you twist things around, they aren't interested. Seriously.
Five years? More like 13. I really don't get Montreal's fascination with him. If he really wanted to play in Montreal he wouldn't have signed multiple long term contracts with the Lightning which included a NMC. Montreal has a fun team to watch, enjoy them and stop trying to trade for a player due to heritage.

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06-11-2013, 04:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
OK, what I guess I need to explain is that this is not trading assets for assets, per say; if that were the case, I wouldn't even bother with these proposals...this is trading for a crippling buyout on a salary that is doing extreme damage to Tampa in both the short term and the long term (the same as DiPietro's is doing for the Isles)...Tampa can't afford the buyout on this contract, nor can they afford to keep paying for a franchise superstar and getting an aging OK 2nd line centre...a team like Montreal (or Toronto, NY Rangers, Philly, etc.) can afford a huge payout and may do it as long as it makes sense, as in nets big assets back...this is a business, GMs realize this and will do what they have to in order for the team to survive (and hopefully prosper) in the long run.
Ridiculous. So to save the $2 million or so that he might be overpaid, we should give away the 3rd overall pick (potential franchise player) and a fine 2C just so Montreal can buy him out. These proposals are getting more and more outrageous. Your proposal is terrible, Tampa does not need to buy him out and if they do need to, the owner will be able to pay. He just renovated the arena with $40 million and gave $5 million in charities within the Tampa Bay area.

Lecavalier played one of his best seasons in the last 3-4 seasons. He is finally regaining his form and we should give away assets so another team can buy him out when we are capable of doing so, if needed. Ridiculous.

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06-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Well then you need to make it a little more clearer, Because one part says buyout and another part says paying on the next 7 years. Tampa Bay does'nt have to buyout Vinny this year they still have the option of next year as well next years cap will be alot tighter then this years cap.
You think this upcoming year's 64 mill cap (2013-14) will be more than the 2014-15 cap?? Can't see it, look at the years after the last lockout...the cap will go up, if it moves at all.

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06-11-2013, 04:57 PM
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WOW, just WOW,

The OP speaks like Lecavalier is a average 2nd line center.

He is #19 in PPG (excluding Lee and Sceviour as they played only 1/2 games) and #31 in overall points within all centers.
Only 21 teams have a center that made more points this season !!!!!!

Yes he is overpaid, but getting a replacement for him would cost at least 5m on the FA market even more. And no signing multiple players for the money would really hurt this team. Our offense is deep and strong so only a top player is off any interest for Tampa.

Yes he is a little injury prone the last few seasons, but so is Crosby. Should Crosby get bought out? No.
Stamkos is all about points, but Lecavaliers qualitys are going far behind goals and points. He is an excellent two-way forward.

I would not listen, if somebody offers a 2nd rounder for him. Just being overpaid by around 2m does not make your value negative.
If he retires early I am fine with buying him out and taking some millions of cap for 2 years or so. He deserves to retire here and will retire here.

End of the story.

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06-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Steve Yzerman View Post
Ridiculous. So to save the $2 million or so that he might be overpaid, we should give away the 3rd overall pick (potential franchise player) and a fine 2C just so Montreal can buy him out. These proposals are getting more and more outrageous. Your proposal is terrible, Tampa does not need to buy him out and if they do need to, the owner will be able to pay. He just renovated the arena with $40 million and gave $5 million in charities within the Tampa Bay area.

Lecavalier played one of his best seasons in the last 3-4 seasons. He is finally regaining his form and we should give away assets so another team can buy him out when we are capable of doing so, if needed. Ridiculous.
Lecavalier's contract is one of the worst in hockey; he's not "2 million or so overpaid", he's getting paid 38.5 million in the next 4 years alone and is worth less than 1/2 of that...my point is those savings could net you a much better player or multiple players of Vinny's level...the cost of having that ability is this year's #3...you may not agree, which is fine, but it's far from a ridiculous notion.

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06-11-2013, 05:22 PM
  #87
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Please Habs fans, keep talking amongst yourselves as to why this is a good idea while Tampa weeps over it's average second-line center.

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06-11-2013, 05:27 PM
  #88
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What is with all this Lecavalier buy out talk? The guy is overpaid granted, but he is still a 60-70pt centre. I would be over joyed to have him centering our top line until Scheifele gets ready.

Also, you cannot buy out a player that you didn't have on our roster prior to the CBA...well you can...but it will count against the cap.

Since Mtl is sort of competing, they won't be in any position to use up valuable cap space to buy out a player. Especially a serviceable one at that.

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06-11-2013, 05:28 PM
  #89
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As per usual, these threads degenerate into Lightning fans explaining that we prefer to keep Lecavalier, and a handful of non-Lightning fans telling us our opinion is wrong.

OP, you offered an unabashedly one-sided trade which does nothing but benefit the Habs, now and future while accomplishing the exact opposite for the Lightning under the guise of improving Tampa Bay's financials which you clearly had no knowledge of to begin with. I saw fans try to discuss it with you reasonably and evenly, through humor and eventually frustration.

The fact is the deal hurts the Lightning on multiple levels, and no amount of you repeating the same misguided non-facts about the dire straits of the future of Lightning hockey is going to convince us we need a painful solution to something we don't consider a problem.

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06-11-2013, 05:34 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
"Losing" Drouin (#3 goes to #25 and some smaller pieces) does nothing to playoff chances now (in a few years, maybe, if they don't use assets properly)..."losing" Vinny by using his cap hit & salary to get better players (which a 7.3 mill cap hit will get you...a much better player) helps make playoffs and last longer in them, hence increasing revenue.



Vinny is 33, production is dropping, and injuries are racking up...his cap hit and salary are hurting the Lightning, whom could use the relief for a much better asset or multiple similar assets...I believe he needs to be bought out now, which is why I created this thread; if you don't agree, that's OK, you don't agree.
Then we agree to disagree on pretty much every point you brought.

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06-11-2013, 05:35 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Please Habs fans, keep talking amongst yourselves as to why this is a good idea while Tampa weeps over it's average second-line center.
...who's cap hit is $227,273 more per year than Stamkos' and for an extra 4 years...in fact, the only "#2" centre who makes more is nicknamed Geno and won the NHL's version of the Triple Crown last year (Hart, Lindsay & Art Ross)...I have always been a Vinny fan (would've loved him to play in MTL...in his prime and not for a fortune that comes back to bite), but his contract hurts Tampa.

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06-11-2013, 05:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...who's cap hit is $227,273 more per year than Stamkos' and for an extra 4 years...in fact, the only "#2" centre who makes more is nicknamed Geno and won the NHL's version of the Triple Crown last year (Hart, Lindsay & Art Ross)...I have always been a Vinny fan (would've loved him to play in MTL...in his prime and not for a fortune that comes back to bite), but his contract hurts Tampa.
Congratulations! You have earned the Glass House Award for committing a minor grammar error right after being belligerent and pedantic about a minor grammar error!

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06-11-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
Congratulations! You have earned the Glass House Award for committing a minor grammar error right after being belligerent and pedantic about a minor grammar error!
Actually, reread; I told him if he was going to slag my post, he should fix his...no belligerence and it was a play on being "worst"...but keep paying attention.

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06-11-2013, 05:54 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
OK, first it's "your posts"; if you're (notice the correct usage) going to slag my posts, fix your own...next, Vinny hasn't even scored 60 points in 3 years; for his salary & cap hit, you can probably get both Richards & Iginla next year (around 3 for Richards & 4 for Iggy) to more than make up the loss...and lastly, in my opinion, a 30 million dollar savings is worth Drouin...how hard is this to figure out?
Posting from my cell phone autocorrect sometimes changes words on me. It does not change the fact your offer is horrible. Vinny is still a productive player so they will have to replace him. It would not be 30 million in savings look at the prices Weiss, Roy, Bozak ect are going to command. At the least they are going to cost 4 million a season. So a comparable replacement will cost around 20 million at least. So at best it would be 10 million in savings. Then when you bring up the value of an ELC player you are saving them no money at all.

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06-11-2013, 06:00 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...who's cap hit is $227,273 more per year than Stamkos' and for an extra 4 years...in fact, the only "#2" centre who makes more is nicknamed Geno and won the NHL's version of the Triple Crown last year (Hart, Lindsay & Art Ross)...I have always been a Vinny fan (would've loved him to play in MTL...in his prime and not for a fortune that comes back to bite), but his contract hurts Tampa.
I'm sure Jeff Vinik appreciates your concern but he is one of two people in the World who knows exactly how much Lecavalier's contract is hurting Tampa Bay and I'm sure neither are speaking to you.

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06-11-2013, 06:02 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Lecavalier's contract is one of the worst in hockey; he's not "2 million or so overpaid", he's getting paid 38.5 million in the next 4 years alone and is worth less than 1/2 of that...my point is those savings could net you a much better player or multiple players of Vinny's level...the cost of having that ability is this year's #3...you may not agree, which is fine, but it's far from a ridiculous notion.
Would you have given up a top 3 pick to Toronto so they could buy out Gomez for you? As you say, "those savings could net you a much better player". And I was saying he is 2 million or so overpaid (per annum on the cap, obviously). Don't begin to talk about salary because you want to take his contract to help the cap situation, not salary.

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06-11-2013, 06:04 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Actually, reread; I told him if he was going to slag my post, he should fix his...no belligerence and it was a play on being "worst"...but keep paying attention.
Good save. It appears you were at least able to fool yourself about this being the case.

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06-11-2013, 06:06 PM
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Every TBL fan is going to decline this and every MTL fan will accept it. If that doesn't tell you it's greatly lopsided to MTL then I don't know what does.

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06-11-2013, 06:08 PM
  #99
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it is easy when it isn't your money

I doubt that Molson would do that.

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06-11-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Posting from my cell phone autocorrect sometimes changes words on me. It does not change the fact your offer is horrible. Vinny is still a productive player so they will have to replace him. It would not be 30 million in savings look at the prices Weiss, Roy, Bozak ect are going to command. At the least they are going to cost 4 million a season. So a comparable replacement will cost around 20 million at least. So at best it would be 10 million in savings. Then when you bring up the value of an ELC player you are saving them no money at all.
The 30 mill is the buyout, not a starting point for the comparables; if Tampa doesn't buy Vinny out, they pay 45 million over the next 7 years...think of it this way:

They don't buy Vinny out and spend $45 mill over 7 years (7.727,273 cap hit)...
or
They buy Vinny out on their own (30 mill buyout) and replace...
or
They trade him to someone who can take the buyout (TO, NYR, MTL, etc), giving up assets...

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