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Can Kovy crack 1000 as a Devil/Pass Elias?

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Old
06-09-2013, 10:26 PM
  #26
CerebralGenesis
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Are we talking turnovers?


that would be a feat

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06-10-2013, 12:03 PM
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His back wont hold up..as one who has lower back problems I think it effects him way more than we know.

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06-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #28
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Can he pass Maclean with 702 points? He needs 501 points to do so, if he play another 10 years he will likely do it in my opinion.
YA KNOW, I think he could do that....

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06-10-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
How bout can he crack -100 on the +/- scale? Currently a -33 with the squad.


But yeah I don't think there is much of a chance for him to get over 1000 as a Devils. Obviously I hope so but it seems way too far out there.

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06-10-2013, 08:21 PM
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kovy will get 100 points the next couple of seasons

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06-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #31
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kovy will get 100 points the next couple of seasons
That's a given(I think).....


BTW, a lousy playoffs for your namesake's. So sad for them.

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06-10-2013, 09:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by glenwo2 View Post
That's a given(I think).....


BTW, a lousy playoffs for your namesake's. So sad for them.
me too.... i weep in my pillow nightly.

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06-11-2013, 09:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by StvBroDan View Post
If Kovy continues to play the way he is now and Lou does not get him some big time help then no. He will have injury or just wear down.
Here is the thing, This goes for any player...You can't sign a player to a huge dollar contract then make the claim he needs help. While it maybe 100% true that the player needs to be surrounded by quality in order to perform at his best, in most cases it is just not feasible to have one player taking 11 Million in payroll and surround him with quality unless you have a vibrant pipeline of young talented players on first or second year contracts. New Jersey doesn't.

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06-11-2013, 11:29 AM
  #34
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Why do people mock Kovy on here?

Is it a running joke considering if he isn't in the lineup the team is literally pitiful and when he is in the lineup we are cup contenders? We just nit pick little things about him but nobody else?

You'll never hear these things about Elias and Kovy is much better than Elias...

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06-11-2013, 11:39 AM
  #35
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its Jim's schtick to pick on Kovy.

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06-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Balance View Post
Why do people mock Kovy on here?
when your other pastimes include fishing and archery, what do you expect?

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06-11-2013, 12:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Here is the thing, This goes for any player...You can't sign a player to a huge dollar contract then make the claim he needs help. While it maybe 100% true that the player needs to be surrounded by quality in order to perform at his best, in most cases it is just not feasible to have one player taking 11 Million in payroll and surround him with quality unless you have a vibrant pipeline of young talented players on first or second year contracts. New Jersey doesn't.
While I do see what you're saying and agree with a lot of it, we should still be able to provide him with a better winger than Ponikarovsky, or whoever else was playing with him. Not saying he needs Malkin, but if the coach is gonna continue playing him on the right then he needs better talent than that.

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06-11-2013, 12:28 PM
  #38
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when your other pastimes include fishing and archery, what do you expect?
Nothing wrong with fishing.


Archery, however, is a bit...well.....

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06-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
Why do people mock Kovy on here?

Is it a running joke considering if he isn't in the lineup the team is literally pitiful and when he is in the lineup we are cup contenders? We just nit pick little things about him but nobody else?

You'll never hear these things about Elias and Kovy is much better than Elias...
oh really?

Shifted stats by age then a comparison. We won't bring up the plus minus stats because those aren't "real stats" to so many people (but Elias wins by a differential of over +300).



They aren't as far apart as you think. Kovy was a sprinter that has slowed down a lot. Elias is a marathon runner.

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06-11-2013, 12:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
They aren't as far apart as you think. Kovy was a sprinter that has slowed down a lot. Elias is a marathon runner.
Just goes to show how underrated Elias has been over his career.

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06-11-2013, 01:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
While I do see what you're saying and agree with a lot of it, we should still be able to provide him with a better winger than Ponikarovsky, or whoever else was playing with him. Not saying he needs Malkin, but if the coach is gonna continue playing him on the right then he needs better talent than that.
From where? Every time you have to go out and sign someone to fill a need it is costly and it takes resources away from other places. I honestly wish NJ would get out of the habit of signing UFA's -- It seldom works and it is always expensive. If you look at NJ's new habit of signing Free Agents (All started after the first lockout 2005) Nearly every single (major) UFA signing has been a failure...From the Malakhov, Mogilny, McGillis era of 2005 to Tallinder and Volchenkov today. All desperate attempts to fill gaping holes after players left via Free Agency, all catastrophic failures, and each have taken years to dig out of.

I don't think you are going to have very much success in this league without a constant flow of cheap, young talent contributing. It seems almost impossible.

I think the Devils have a real opportunity to clean out their defense in the next two years by getting rid of the older players in bringing in those entry level contracts like Merrill, Gelinas, Burlon or Urbom...That should free up resources to address forwards...But that still doesn't address the immediate needs.

This off season seems like a major transitional season....But what do you do as far as forwards are concerned? Do you resign all these older players like Zubrus and Elias to big contracts? Do you even have a choice? You already need to replace Ponikarovsky(assuming he is leaving) , you already needed a winger before that...What is the solution? Have the Devils backed themselves into a corner where they have to give Clarkson whatever he wants because there is no alternative? It seems that way.

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Old
06-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
oh really?

Shifted stats by age then a comparison. We won't bring up the plus minus stats because those aren't "real stats" to so many people (but Elias wins by a differential of over +300).


They aren't as far apart as you think. Kovy was a sprinter that has slowed down a lot. Elias is a marathon runner.
Those stats are pretty wide if you examine it. Besides that, Elias played on the Devils team that won 2 cups and went to the finals 3 times in his prime. He got to play with guys like Arnott and Sykora and have teams try to shut down all the other Devils top lines.

Kovy had nobody in Atlanta so teams would play shutdown on him the whole game and his team went to the playoffs just once in his career. Even then, when looking at the stats Kovy had more points. Besides that, goal scoring is simply more valueable and you did not include that in the stats.

It isn't close and it can really be evidenced not only by stats but by just watching them play. In the short time Kovy has been here he has been significantly better than Elias. Kovalchuk is a game breaker and Elias is a really good #2 guy but he could never take over a game/series like Kovalchuk because he doesn't have the puck handling or goal scoring ability.

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06-11-2013, 05:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Here is the thing, This goes for any player...You can't sign a player to a huge dollar contract then make the claim he needs help. While it maybe 100% true that the player needs to be surrounded by quality in order to perform at his best, in most cases it is just not feasible to have one player taking 11 Million in payroll and surround him with quality unless you have a vibrant pipeline of young talented players on first or second year contracts. New Jersey doesn't.
Considering that he only made $6m in the first two years it really isn't an excuse as far as the payroll. Every cup winner in the past few years has had at least 2 players who make Kovalchuk's salary or more.

The team needed a highly paid offensive defensemen and instead we re-signed Salvador and prayed that he would somehow score at his playoff rate.

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06-11-2013, 05:47 PM
  #44
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I think Kovy is definitely going to play out his contract. With his shot he can easily be a PP specialist in his 40s. He gets $7 million dollars in the last 2 years of the deal plus there is a chance he will likely be breaking some huge career milestones (ie 700 goals and top 10 in pts all-time).

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06-11-2013, 06:03 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Balance View Post
Why do people mock Kovy on here?

Is it a running joke considering if he isn't in the lineup the team is literally pitiful and when he is in the lineup we are cup contenders? We just nit pick little things about him but nobody else?

You'll never hear these things about Elias and Kovy is much better than Elias...
Should be noted Kovy has been here 3.5 years. We did not make the playoffs in 2 of those years, and got booted in the 1st rnd in the 1/2 year. He also missed a grand total of 11 games this year. So it is certainly not as easy as "we are cup contenders with him and pitiful without him". Honestly If I'm looking at what was different between our 2 recent non playoff years and our one cup run it would appear to be Parise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
Those stats are pretty wide if you examine it. Besides that, Elias played on the Devils team that won 2 cups and went to the finals 3 times in his prime. He got to play with guys like Arnott and Sykora and have teams try to shut down all the other Devils top lines.

Kovy had nobody in Atlanta so teams would play shutdown on him the whole game and his team went to the playoffs just once in his career. Even then, when looking at the stats Kovy had more points. Besides that, goal scoring is simply more valueable and you did not include that in the stats.

It isn't close and it can really be evidenced not only by stats but by just watching them play. In the short time Kovy has been here he has been significantly better than Elias. Kovalchuk is a game breaker and Elias is a really good #2 guy but he could never take over a game/series like Kovalchuk because he doesn't have the puck handling or goal scoring ability.
I agree Kovy is a game breaker. On pure physical ability it's Kovy by a wide stretch. But Elias imo, is clearly a more cerebral player, a much better defensive player, and a player who gives a more consistent effort. So he closes that pure physical gap by a decent amount.

As to why Kovy gets grief while Elias gets the love. Elias is a homegrown talent who has won 2 cups. Kovy was traded from an awful team and has been the "best player" on 2 teams that has not made the playoffs while in NJ.

Not trying to attack Kovy here either. I'm a fan. Just trying to give an honest critque.

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06-11-2013, 06:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
I think Kovy is definitely going to play out his contract. With his shot he can easily be a PP specialist in his 40s. He gets $7 million dollars in the last 2 years of the deal plus there is a chance he will likely be breaking some huge career milestones (ie 700 goals and top 10 in pts all-time).
And if he ever learned to use his size and leg strength the way Jagr does that would help his longevity as well.

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06-11-2013, 06:08 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
Should be noted Kovy has been here 3.5 years. We did not make the playoffs in 2 of those years, and got booted in the 1st rnd in the 1/2 year. He also missed a grand total of 11 games this year. So it is certainly not as easy as "we are cup contenders with him and pitiful without him". Honestly If I'm looking at what was different between our 2 recent non playoff years and our one cup run it would appear to be Parise.



I agree Kovy is a game breaker. On pure physical ability it's Kovy by a wide stretch. But Elias imo, is clearly a more cerebral player, a much better defensive player, and a player who gives a more consistent effort. So he closes that pure physical gap by a decent amount.

As to why Kovy gets grief while Elias gets the love. Elias is a homegrown talent who has won 2 cups. Kovy was traded from an awful team and has been the "best player" on 2 teams that has not made the playoffs while in NJ.

Not trying to attack Kovy here either. I'm a fan. Just trying to give an honest critque.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't we go 1-10 when Kovy got hurt this season? We missed the playoffs by 7 pts. So 3 wins and a Overtime loss (4-6-1) would have put us in the playoffs.

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06-11-2013, 06:11 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
And if he ever learned to use his size and leg strength the way Jagr does that would help his longevity as well.
Kovy and Jagr are completely different players. It is embarrassing how much fans on here and those who sat near me in the arena criticize every little thing Kovy does "wrong".

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06-11-2013, 06:16 PM
  #49
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Should be noted Kovy has been here 3.5 years. We did not make the playoffs in 2 of those years, and got booted in the 1st rnd in the 1/2 year. He also missed a grand total of 11 games this year. So it is certainly not as easy as "we are cup contenders with him and pitiful without him". Honestly If I'm looking at what was different between our 2 recent non playoff years and our one cup run it would appear to be Parise.
What? While I tend to agree Parise would have helped us to the playoffs this year, he had little to do with missing the playoffs in 10-11. The team sucked for the first month before he got injured, and then went on a 28-17-3 run later in the season in which he only played one game.

This year he had a lot to do with missing the playoffs I think. He walked and I think Marty said it best, that's a top 3 forward we never got back.

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06-11-2013, 06:31 PM
  #50
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Kovy and Jagr are completely different players. It is embarrassing how much fans on here and those who sat near me in the arena criticize every little thing Kovy does "wrong".
Kovy is a really big, strong guy, who doesn't use that size or strength very much. As his speed deteriorates it might help him to use that size to compensate. Jagr does it very well and is very productive into his 40's.

And this isn't so much a knock as an observation.

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