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Old
10-10-2006, 10:23 PM
  #101
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Why is it that every season since he's been here, Kovalev has a line problem? Because HE'S the problem. The King of Floaters can't be matched by anybody. It's nothing new. It was like that everywhere he went.
Really? I guess you've forgotten how deadly he was in the 2004 playoff round against the Bruins. He was the top scorer for the Habs against Carolina. He had some very good seasons in his first tour of duty with the Rangers and also with the Penguins. If he were as much of a problem as you say he is, Gainey wouldn't have traded for him or re-signed him.

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10-10-2006, 10:37 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Really? I guess you've forgotten how deadly he was in the 2004 playoff round against the Bruins. He was the top scorer for the Habs against Carolina. He had some very good seasons in his first tour of duty with the Rangers and also with the Penguins. If he were as much of a problem as you say he is, Gainey wouldn't have traded for him or re-signed him.
The jist of what the guy was saying is that Kovalev doesn't match with many players very well. Which is true...He seemed good with Koivu but since then...not so much. Even with the pens and Rags he was basically a lone wolf.

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10-10-2006, 10:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
It is not about if Plekanec is enough good or better than the others . It is only about being or not the good complement of the others . You have two players that carry the puck . You need a player that can get the puck in the corners and that is more a finisher . Is Plekanec the right option ? no . If he plays that kind of game, he's going to get injured after two weeks .

1) Plekanec is possbily the best player we have for working in the corners. He has a terrific nose for the puck and is probably one of our 3 best players on the boards in general (including defensemen). Speculating about injuries is hardly appropriate since you could say the same thing about Koivu or Begin or Souray or the list goes on. One of them, if not all, will get injured doing their job this season but whether it's tomorrow, next weekend or 6 weeks next Tuesday, nobody knows. It's a risk taken by any and all who play the game.

2) Although I find it hard to believe we need a better finisher on a line that already has $7.5 million in players who are paid primarily to put the puck in the net, Plekanec will learn to finish better. There's always an adjustment period after a guy changes from a defensive to an offensive role. The problem is not plekanec. . Samsonov and Kovalev are two paid goal scorers have 0 goals between them and they have not been short of chances...largely thanks to Plekanec, actually, who has been very effective getting them the puck. They are too similar to be playing on the same line. It makes me cringe to see that professional analysts from the JdeM as well as other pundits are all of a sudden pretending that it's a news flash (I recall we had a thread on it in July). Normally, I would be impatient by now. But I'm not yet. And the reason is because this line has the elements to be successful. Samsonov just might be able to adapt. Remember, this line has only been together for the three games (since we got rid of the useless deadweight Ribeiro) and that means they have been practicing together for only a little over a week. I have more patience than that. Regardless, the point is that Pleks is not the problem. The similar playing styles among our two dipsy doodlers is the problem. Give it a couple more games.

For the other post, Kovalev is not a floater. He is a proven clutch hockey player who does have defensive lapses and sometimes bad games. But he does work hard. And make no mistake. This guy is a big game player (exhibit A: last playoffs), which is something we don;t have lot of. The King of floaters is and always will be Ribeiro.


Last edited by Catch-22: 10-10-2006 at 11:07 PM.
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Old
10-10-2006, 11:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
For the other post, Kovalev is not a floater. He is a proven clutch hockey player who does have defensive lapses and sometimes bad games. But he does work hard. And make no mistake. This guy is a big game player (exhibit A: last playoffs), which is something we don;t have lot of. The King of floaters is and always will be Ribeiro.
Lol, you're either blind or stupid. Gainey himself said that Kovalev shows up for 1 out of 4 games. So you must think that you know more than Gainey by claiming that Kovy ain't a floater. Even if he is clutch (when he chooses to be), he's not a guy that I want on my team. You can't tell weither or not the guy is alive when he's on the ice...he plays without emotion, without heart. If we didn't have so many players who play the exact oposite we'd be a bottom seed team.

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10-10-2006, 11:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
1) Plekanec is possbily the best player we have for working in the corners. He has a terrific nose for the puck and is probably one of our 3 best players on the boards in general (including defensemen). Speculating about injuries is hardly appropriate since you could say the same thing about Koivu or Begin or Souray or the list goes on. One of them, if not all, will get injured doing their job this season but whether it's tomorrow, next weekend or 6 weeks next Tuesday, nobody knows. It's a risk taken by any and all who play the game.

2) Although I find it hard to believe we need a better finisher on a line that already has $7.5 million in players who are paid primarily to put the puck in the net, Plekanec will learn to finish better. There's always an adjustment period after a guy changes from a defensive to an offensive role. The problem is not plekanec. . Samsonov and Kovalev are two paid goal scorers have 0 goals between them and they have not been short of chances...largely thanks to Plekanec, actually, who has been very effective getting them the puck. They are too similar to be playing on the same line. It makes me cringe to see that professional analysts from the JdeM as well as other pundits are all of a sudden pretending that it's a news flash (I recall we had a thread on it in July). Normally, I would be impatient by now. But I'm not yet. And the reason is because this line has the elements to be successful. Samsonov just might be able to adapt. Remember, this line has only been together for the three games (since we got rid of the useless deadweight Ribeiro) and that means they have been practicing together for only a little over a week. I have more patience than that. Regardless, the point is that Pleks is not the problem. The similar playing styles among our two dipsy doodlers is the problem. Give it a couple more games.

For the other post, Kovalev is not a floater. He is a proven clutch hockey player who does have defensive lapses and sometimes bad games. But he does work hard. And make no mistake. This guy is a big game player (exhibit A: last playoffs), which is something we don;t have lot of. The King of floaters is and always will be Ribeiro.
This is a comment from Plekanec himself , about his role on the second line . ( He first said that he 's not intimidated to plays with good players like his new teammates )

from RDS ;

" Par contre, je ne me sens pas un véritable joueur de centre dans ce trio, ajoute-t-il. Ce n'est pas moi qui contrôle la rondelle. Cette responsabilité appartient à Kovalev et Samsonov. Moi, je me limite à bien lire le jeu et à saisir les retours de lancer. Dans ce trio, je ne suis pas le fabricant de jeux."

Plekanec say that he doesn't feel like a true center on this line , That he's not the one who control the puck , that responsability being the one of both Kovy and Samsonov . He's limited himself to well read the play and to takes the rebounds . On that trio , he's not the playmaker .

This is what i am saying from the begining ; you have 3 playmakers on the same line . That's too much .And since the two olders have already prove much more than Plekanec , the only thing you have to do is to put him back to the 3 th , where he was very good .

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10-11-2006, 06:49 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Lol, you're either blind or stupid. Gainey himself said that Kovalev shows up for 1 out of 4 games. So you must think that you know more than Gainey by claiming that Kovy ain't a floater. Even if he is clutch (when he chooses to be), he's not a guy that I want on my team. You can't tell weither or not the guy is alive when he's on the ice...he plays without emotion, without heart. If we didn't have so many players who play the exact oposite we'd be a bottom seed team.

I cannot find that quote. Just before trading Ribeiro, Gainey also said there was not reason to suggest that Ribeiro wasn't his type of player. The point is that Gainey does not always make comments for your benefit. He says what (a) he thinks the fans want hear and (b) what will best motivate his players. It's good marketing and good motivating. You are making a big mistake if you think Gainey means everything he says. That is for sheep. He knows damn well Kovalev is a big time player. That's why he signed Kovalev to a 4-year $4 million/yr contract. Given that we know Gainey doesn;t always mean what he says literally, and given that he awarded Kovalev a big time contract, the evidence suggests that Bob Gainey actually does think Kovalev is a big time player.

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10-11-2006, 06:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
This is a comment from Plekanec himself , about his role on the second line . ( He first said that he 's not intimidated to plays with good players like his new teammates )

from RDS ;

" Par contre, je ne me sens pas un véritable joueur de centre dans ce trio, ajoute-t-il. Ce n'est pas moi qui contrôle la rondelle. Cette responsabilité appartient à Kovalev et Samsonov. Moi, je me limite à bien lire le jeu et à saisir les retours de lancer. Dans ce trio, je ne suis pas le fabricant de jeux."

Plekanec say that he doesn't feel like a true center on this line , That he's not the one who control the puck , that responsability being the one of both Kovy and Samsonov . He's limited himself to well read the play and to takes the rebounds . On that trio , he's not the playmaker .

This is what i am saying from the begining ; you have 3 playmakers on the same line . That's too much .And since the two olders have already prove much more than Plekanec , the only thing you have to do is to put him back to the 3 th , where he was very good .
Nicely misinterpreted!

First, he is actually saying that he is not a shoe-in (the natural or the only one capable of playing) on this line. As we know, that is false. Begin and Bonk are not second line centres. By trading Ribeiro, Gainey clearly demonstrated confidence in the only other centre on the team capable of second line duties. But more importantly, Plekanec was modestly (and very cleverly) stating the need he will have work hard to to maintain his spot...by complement these two world-class players. Some players prefer to keep a low profile and low expectations. That strategy makes sense on a line with those two guys. You've got to learn to read between the lines. Regardless of what Plekanc himself says, he is a good playmaker and an excellent passer. He may not think his role is to make plays but on a line with finishers/snipers like Samsonov and Kovalev, anything else is pretty stupid.

Second, you are discounting modesty, the same modesty he shows on his personal website when he says that he doesn't think he'll ever make a career out of playing in the NHL.

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10-11-2006, 07:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Nicely misinterpreted!

First, he is actually saying that he is not a shoe-in (the natural or the only one capable of playing) on this line. As we know, that is false. Begin and Bonk are not second line centres. By trading Ribeiro, Gainey clearly demonstrated confidence in the only other centre on the team capable of second line duties. But more importantly, Plekanec was modestly (and very cleverly) stating the need he will have work hard to to maintain his spot...by complement these two world-class players. Some players prefer to keep a low profile and low expectations. That strategy makes sense on a line with those two guys. You've got to learn to read between the lines. Regardless of what Plekanc himself says, he is a good playmaker and an excellent passer. He may not think his role is to make plays but on a line with finishers/snipers like Samsonov and Kovalev, anything else is pretty stupid.

Second, you are discounting modesty, the same modesty he shows on his personal website when he says that he doesn't think he'll ever make a career out of playing in the NHL.
So ?

I QUOTED Plekanec , but i am the one who misinterpreted what he said ?

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10-11-2006, 07:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
I cannot find that quote. Just before trading Ribeiro, Gainey also said there was not reason to suggest that Ribeiro wasn't his type of player. The point is that Gainey does not always make comments for your benefit. He says what (a) he thinks the fans want hear and (b) what will best motivate his players. It's good marketing and good motivating. You are making a big mistake if you think Gainey means everything he says. That is for sheep. He knows damn well Kovalev is a big time player. That's why he signed Kovalev to a 4-year $4 million/yr contract. Given that we know Gainey doesn;t always mean what he says literally, and given that he awarded Kovalev a big time contract, the evidence suggests that Bob Gainey actually does think Kovalev is a big time player.
Gainey's just bad at negociating contracts. It wouldn't bug me so much if this wasn't a salary cap era.

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10-11-2006, 10:58 PM
  #110
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Funny. That's what was said about Savard too. The difference is that Gainey gives the big money to the right players.

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10-11-2006, 11:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Funny. That's what was said about Savard too. The difference is that Gainey gives the big money to the right players.
Like he did with Theodore?

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10-12-2006, 12:44 AM
  #112
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Like he did with Theodore?
The problem with Theo is that he didn't live up to expectations. He was coming off of a very good season and there was no logical reason to believe he would not be an elite goalie.

You'll also note he's no longer with the team.

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10-12-2006, 12:47 AM
  #113
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The problem with Theo is that he didn't live up to expectations. He was coming off of a very good season and there was no logical reason to believe he would not be an elite goalie.

You'll also note he's no longer with the team.
That's cuz Gainey is a good GM, just an average-to-bad contract negotiator imo.

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10-12-2006, 12:56 AM
  #114
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That's cuz Gainey is a good GM, just an average-to-bad contract negotiator imo.
Good to average contract negotiator? Are you kidding me? That's what a GM is mostly about is contracts and negotiating. Gainey hasn't opened up the vault here with anyone on this team. Come on now. Give your head a shake. Gainey is as clever if not the cleverest GM out there. Where teams are still paying players 7.5 million dollar contracts, Gainey hasn't even come close to that. If a player doesn't perform to what his expectations are consistently then he has the balls to move him, like he did with Theo, Ribeiro, and Zednik.

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10-12-2006, 01:06 AM
  #115
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Good to average contract negotiator? Are you kidding me? That's what a GM is mostly about is contracts and negotiating. Gainey hasn't opened up the vault here with anyone on this team. Come on now. Give your head a shake. Gainey is as clever if not the cleverest GM out there. Where teams are still paying players 7.5 million dollar contracts, Gainey hasn't even come close to that. If a player doesn't perform to what his expectations are consistently then he has the balls to move him, like he did with Theo, Ribeiro, and Zednik.
To move Zednik and Bulis didn't take much courage, but to flush Théodore and Ribeiro out of Montréal did. Surprisingly, the natives didn't storm the Bell Centre.

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10-12-2006, 01:10 AM
  #116
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Perezhogin was used twice with Samsonov and Kovalev tonight... something in the air? not sure it's the best line you can get, but I'd like to see a russian line with Markov as D... 19343 passes, no shots.. amazing hockey though.

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10-12-2006, 07:54 AM
  #117
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Like he did with Theodore?


Paf ! on the mouth ...

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10-12-2006, 12:24 PM
  #118
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Perezhogin was used twice with Samsonov and Kovalev tonight... something in the air?
Always on the PP. They don't need Pleky's defensive acumen so much then and Perezhogin is playing very well and deserves the offensive icetime.

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10-12-2006, 12:37 PM
  #119
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Good to average contract negotiator? Are you kidding me? That's what a GM is mostly about is contracts and negotiating. Gainey hasn't opened up the vault here with anyone on this team. Come on now. Give your head a shake. Gainey is as clever if not the cleverest GM out there. Where teams are still paying players 7.5 million dollar contracts, Gainey hasn't even come close to that. If a player doesn't perform to what his expectations are consistently then he has the balls to move him, like he did with Theo, Ribeiro, and Zednik.
We don't have a player who's close to the skill of a 7.5m player. If Gainey had the opportunity to jump on one I guarantee you he would. Many of us expected Huet's contract to be no more than 2m (hell Tim Thomas only got 1.2m)... We were surprised. Kovalev at 4.5 is nothing to brag about either... Then we have Bonk who we're paying 2.4m (gainey didn't make the contract but he took it on), Theodore who we majorly overpayed...The list goes on, so I don't see how Gainey can be the "cleverist" GM in the league. He's a good GM when it comes to managing the team, he's just not good with managing money. Just compare our team near the top of the cap, to other teams who are near the top of the cap and you'll see what I mean.

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10-12-2006, 12:43 PM
  #120
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And after all that, Kovalev snipes thanks to a nice, gritty assist from Tomas Plekanec. This guy will be the setup man on that line.

And did anybody see Plekanec's SH pass to Begin?! We saw that passing ability a lot last year. Pass the sauce please.

Further evidence that this guy's offensive role is as a playmaker.

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10-12-2006, 12:56 PM
  #121
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First off hindsight is 20/20

Theodore was going to get that contract whether he was here or on another team. The fact that Colorado took his contract gives proof of that.

Kovalev proved his worth in the playoffs, when it counts. And I'm sure if he was that much of a problem he would've been moved by now as well. Gainey's done it with everyone else.

Going into this year Huet was an UFA, so we probably had to pay a premium to keep him, and I don't think anyone wanted to go into this season with Abby as our only goalie.

Everyone makes mistakes and Gainey has too, but what makes him a better GM then most is his ability to correct them.

I guess who would you put into the Elite category of salary negotiator (now in the CAP world).

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10-12-2006, 01:07 PM
  #122
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I guess who would you put into the Elite category of salary negotiator (now in the CAP world).
Pretty much any team better than ours, has a GM who's a better salary negotiator or at least understand what you need under the cap better. We have seemingly built a playoff team though, if Koivu and Pleks can stay healthy during them.

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10-12-2006, 01:22 PM
  #123
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Lol, you're either blind or stupid. Gainey himself said that Kovalev shows up for 1 out of 4 games. So you must think that you know more than Gainey by claiming that Kovy ain't a floater. Even if he is clutch (when he chooses to be), he's not a guy that I want on my team. You can't tell weither or not the guy is alive when he's on the ice...he plays without emotion, without heart. If we didn't have so many players who play the exact oposite we'd be a bottom seed team.
Sorry but you're the stupid one, I've yet to see a single post from you that made an ounce of sense.

If Gainey believed Kovy only showed up 1 in 4 games he would not have signed him. That's called LOGIC you should get to know it sometime...

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10-12-2006, 01:25 PM
  #124
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Sorry but you're the stupid one, I've yet to see a single post from you that made an ounce of sense.

If Gainey believed Kovy only showed up 1 in 4 games he would not have signed him. That's called LOGIC you should get to know it sometime...
Get to know logic? Maybe I should invite it over for a cup of tea? Yes I'm the stupid one....Idiot.

Gainey came out publicly and said that Kovy only showed up for 1 in 4 games...you can look it up on RDS if you choose to. Cuz I sure as **** won't go digging it up for you.

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10-12-2006, 01:28 PM
  #125
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Gainey came out publicly and said that Kovy only showed up for 1 in 4 games...you can look it up on RDS if you choose to. Cuz I sure as **** won't go digging it up for you.
No, you're full of *****, which is why you won't dig up the nonexistant quote.

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