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Subban and that bridge contract..(what to expect with his next extension)

View Poll Results: Bridge contract
Bridge contract was a smart deal. It was a good move for both parties 107 54.04%
Should have signed him long term (likely cheaper) when we had the chance. Bit of a blunder by MB. 91 45.96%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-11-2013, 05:11 PM
  #276
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Hot topic.

We will soon see if Bergevin made a mistake or not. The offseason trading and signing period is about to start.

If Bergevin takes the money that he saved on Subban's bridge contract and signs an impact player or two to this roster, then the bridge contract is worth it.

However, if Bergevin does not make any big moves in the offseason, then we will have every right to question his decision making.

Should be a lot of fun here on the boards.
It's going to be a blast here once PK signs his next extension. Almost makes a person wish Kypreos is wrong.

Since the reduction in free agency age from 31 to 27 there has been increasing pressure to quickly identify important players and keep them under team control. Unfortunately this is at odds with cost control. I still think the manager has to protect one of the few levers he has, using the second contract and the deterrent of the RFA system to manage the cost of the roster.

As you say it's unimportant if the team can't take advantage, but with buyouts and salary shedding happening this summer I think MB has positioned himself well to trade his way to an upgrade at a position or 2 . That's all that can be done this year that's all we can ask him to do.

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06-11-2013, 05:13 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The key part Bergevin and co wanted to see was PK becoming more of a team player. I think that was a big success. If you give young players too much money too soon often they don't reach full potential or don't perform because of the pressure from a huge contract, perfect example is Myers(Buffalo).
There is absolutely no proof that there's any correlation between Myers signing a deal and not performing due to its pressure.

Wouldn't be the first time a player doesn't live up to his potential, regardless of money.

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06-11-2013, 05:35 PM
  #278
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Bergevin wants to keep Subban.
Subban wants to stay in Montreal.

They will find a agreement that will make both parties happy.

Certainly north of 5.75M. Maybe 6M or 6.5M.

One thing for sure, the decrease in SCap by nearly 10% has an impact on the players salary.

Here hoping we have a deal a 6M X 6 to 8 years.

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06-11-2013, 05:41 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
It's not even just the off-season. It's also the trade deadline and the off-season where Galchenyuk and Gallagher also sign bridge contracts. It's a continuous cycle of saving money on our young players because we didn't cave in and pay Subban early.
If Galchenyuk puts up say 70pts in the last year of his ELC he's going to want a long term big dollar deal regardless of what PK signed for. If he doesn't get it then he'll be left with the same choice PK had, sign a bridge deal, sign an offer sheet, or holdout. Subban's contract doesn't make it more likely that he signs a bridge deal as well. I don't like our young studs considering playing for other teams.

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06-11-2013, 09:29 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Bask View Post
get in a room with Subban and his agent
answer "yes" before Subban even tells you what he wants in his contract
sign the paper
go home
And for the love of all that is good and holy, please get it done quickly. I can just imagine if Meehan and Bergevin are announced as talking about a long term deal and one isn't announced right away. The trade boards will be fun.

"Proposal: Subban to Toronto

Wendel's Mustache posted: To Toronto: Subban. To Montreal: Gardiner, 2nd (2015). Montreal rids themselves of a major distraction (and no more fights at practice)and save for their cap, while acquiring a top flight D prospect who could surpass Subban as early as next year"

"Proposal: Subban + for Yakupov?

Oil be Waiting posted: To Edmonton: Subban, conditional 1st (2014 or 2015). to Montreal: Yakupov. Edmonton takes Subban off Montreal's hands and rids them of a one-dimensional locker room cancer, Montreal acquires an elite scorer to continue their rebuild "

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06-11-2013, 10:42 PM
  #281
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Here's my prediction... 5 seconds in

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=lSPNQ82Sq4E

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Old
06-12-2013, 12:23 AM
  #282
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What's going to happen? People will go ape sh-it because he'll be earning 6-7-8 millions per year.

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06-12-2013, 02:33 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Tusk View Post
7 million x 8 years, 56 million, if he wants to play on a competitive team. More than that would make him the only possible big contract on the team and hurt overall depth.
This is true. He has to balance what he wants with allowing for another big contract or two. The Cap will go up, but most teams cannot pay more than two superstar star level contracts without sacrificing depth.

I think Subby knows this, and he will be reminded of it in negotiations anyway.

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06-12-2013, 02:42 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Subban wanted a deal that took him right to UFA with possibly buying up one year. Now we get him for two years + 8 more when he signs an extension avoiding a Komisarek situation.
This says it all. Hundreds of posts, and this says it. There is no way we could have kept Subby if he went UFA.

Some crazy GM would offer him 9 mill. And you have to take the crazy offer if it comes. Just ask Suter and Parise.

This way, we hold his rights during his next negotiation. We are not bidding against other teams. It is shocking that so few here get this.

We will lose on the cap sure, but we won't lose Subban. And the bridge contract made sure of that.

And the Cap will rise, a lot. If Habs wanted to keep Subby for ten years, the bridge contract was exactly the right move. End of story.

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06-12-2013, 03:03 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Why do people keep claiming this. It makes no sense, first of all we could have signed him before the lockout and given him any number of years. And second if you are worried that he wants to become a UFA, the bridge deal makes it arguably more likely as he will now be 1 year away when his contract runs out so the temptation to will be there.
The temptation to sign short term deals until you reach FA is always there. Habs can't control that.

But it is not that simple. If Subby now insists on a one year deal in the next negotiation, it will be clear that he intends to go for UFA.

Which also says we risk losing him for nothing. Which then means we have the option to trade him, for huge returns.

The bridge contract was smart. If forces Subby to take a position and show his cards:

1. I want UFA, I'm not signing long term.
2. I like it here and believe in the team, let's make a deal, for good money.

Case 1, we have the chance to trade a player that may not sign with us long term for a massive return.

Case 2, we lock Subby up for 8 more years.

In other words, we don't lose Subban for nothing, or we don't lose him at all. That's good management.

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06-12-2013, 03:18 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Translation: "there's nothing wrong with paying someone what they're worth except you should always be looking to pay someone less than they're worth".



Can't wait for tomorrows life nugget.
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I personally can't wait until the day you stop acting condescending.

In the context of a cap world, getting talent at a discount is a positive. Also, isn't paying Subban less than what he's worth exactly what Bergevin did with his bridge deal? Considering Subban's role on the team since his rookie season and his contribution, he's definitely underpaid for what he brings.

Like I said, the habs had the opportunity to get Subban at a discount and missed the boat. Similar to how you yourself would bring up the fact that Streit could have been signed to a discount, aka less than what he was worth, during the season had "my hero" and "idiot" Bob Gainey hadn't had a policy of not negotiating during the year.

Lastly, there is nothing inconsistent with being okay with Subban getting paid more that he has proven more and being happy had we signed him at a discount.

Also are you able, for once on this board, to debate without acting like a dick?
Love your model, makes no sense in today's market for Talent, not Labour.

Talent is not Labour, and you cannot treat talent the same way you treat Labour.

This has been recognized by economists for at least 5 years, surprisingly late in fact, and I suggest you do some research on the topic.

NHL teams are not employing Wal Mart employees, especially when it comes to super stars. Looking for 'good deals' with talent means you will lose the talent.

The real point of this thread is not how much we pay Subby. It is whether we are able to keep him or not. And the bridge deal made our chances of keeping him higher.

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06-12-2013, 03:31 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
What's going to happen? People will go ape sh-it because he'll be earning 6-7-8 millions per year.
I would go ape **** if we lost Subby for nothing as a UFA.

Molson can afford Subban's pay rise, and the cap will rise, allowing for his super star salary, while not hurting the team.

Except for bad long term deals for non talented players, thus affecting their strength as a hockey team, I could not care less how much Molson has to pay for talent. Why would anyone care?


Last edited by bsl: 06-12-2013 at 03:37 AM.
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06-12-2013, 05:11 AM
  #288
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Right, so signing for a little more than 5M makes more sense..

But you're right, Subban wanted Weber money, he wanted 110M. Sure. That's what makes sense.
I never claimed 110m, trying arguing against my position instead of creating a strawman argument.

I never liked MB's position on this deal. I don't think management should deal in one size fits all manners, especially when dealing with his stars, but I don't see there being even a slight chance pk signed for 27million over 6 years. Price's contract would have been closer to the ballpark.

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06-12-2013, 05:25 AM
  #289
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I would go ape **** if we lost Subby for nothing as a UFA.

Molson can afford Subban's pay rise, and the cap will rise, allowing for his super star salary, while not hurting the team.

Except for bad long term deals for non talented players, thus affecting their strength as a hockey team, I could not care less how much Molson has to pay for talent. Why would anyone care?
I agree with this, the problem isn't paying out big money, the problem is paying out big money to players who aren't particularly good, however, on the flip side of your argument, signing him long term also guaranteed we wouldn't lose him. I don't think anyone here is arguing we should have signed him up until he comes a UFA, to the contrary, we had a chance to buy a few of those years on the cheap. Although I think how much we would have saved is overblown.

MB saved the money in a time when there is the most uncertainty league wise/cap wise and economic growth wise, apparently he thought it was more important to save the dollars now to allow him to shape the team further, rather than a few years down the road when it's not necessarily needed as much.

The only problem I see is the that PK was forced to leave a ton of money on the the table, perhaps during next negotiations when he is more control of the negotiations he will want every cent he thins he deserves since he was low-balled this time around. I don't think PK is a vindictive guy at all and will sign for a fair price, but we took a chance that was entirely unnecessary imo.

We had our star/franchise player wanting to sign a long term deal and stay in Montreal without hesitation and we decided to play chicken with him. We'll see how it goes next time around, but I think MB missed an opportunity here, but I agree that it is still unlikely to haunt us in any way, but we really don't know if these contract talks soured pk a bit. Hopefully not.

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06-12-2013, 05:29 AM
  #290
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We know that subban wanted less than doughty money, and he is better than doughty.

What else do we need to know?

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06-12-2013, 08:26 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I agree with this, the problem isn't paying out big money, the problem is paying out big money to players who aren't particularly good, however, on the flip side of your argument, signing him long term also guaranteed we wouldn't lose him. I don't think anyone here is arguing we should have signed him up until he comes a UFA, to the contrary, we had a chance to buy a few of those years on the cheap. Although I think how much we would have saved is overblown.

MB saved the money in a time when there is the most uncertainty league wise/cap wise and economic growth wise, apparently he thought it was more important to save the dollars now to allow him to shape the team further, rather than a few years down the road when it's not necessarily needed as much.

The only problem I see is the that PK was forced to leave a ton of money on the the table, perhaps during next negotiations when he is more control of the negotiations he will want every cent he thins he deserves since he was low-balled this time around. I don't think PK is a vindictive guy at all and will sign for a fair price, but we took a chance that was entirely unnecessary imo.

We had our star/franchise player wanting to sign a long term deal and stay in Montreal without hesitation and we decided to play chicken with him. We'll see how it goes next time around, but I think MB missed an opportunity here, but I agree that it is still unlikely to haunt us in any way, but we really don't know if these contract talks soured pk a bit. Hopefully not.
at the end of his bridge deal he'll have 5 seasons under his belt (well 4 full plus a few games in year 1) and he'll be 25 years old (meaning more mature), at this point it will be clear to everyone, including P.K. himself where he is at in his career and what are realistic expectations of him either from management or himself. so I'd say the risk of paying a player an amount he isnt worth is slim to none in this particular case.

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06-12-2013, 08:53 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
This says it all. Hundreds of posts, and this says it. There is no way we could have kept Subby if he went UFA.

Some crazy GM would offer him 9 mill. And you have to take the crazy offer if it comes. Just ask Suter and Parise.

This way, we hold his rights during his next negotiation. We are not bidding against other teams. It is shocking that so few here get this.

We will lose on the cap sure, but we won't lose Subban. And the bridge contract made sure of that.

And the Cap will rise, a lot. If Habs wanted to keep Subby for ten years, the bridge contract was exactly the right move. End of story.
What a load of crap. What has Subban said or done that indicates he wants to be UFA. He's said multiple times he wants to be a Habs for life, and the fact that he ended up accepting such a low offer is proof enough that Subban wants to be here. The vast majority of stars re-sign with their team, why do you think the UFA market seems to get worse every year. It's because the star players get re-signed before they hit the market. If we had signed Subban long term we could've then re-signed him again before he hit the market. If anything forcing him to sign such a low offer will increase the odds that he becomes UFA as he probably feels he wasn't treated fairly by Bergevin.

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06-12-2013, 09:02 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We know that subban wanted less than doughty money, and he is better than doughty.

What else do we need to know?
Doughty got some serious cash, and then seemed to mail it in...because he wouldn't take a bridge contract...some of these kids get too much $$$ way too soon...

PK is a very motivated young gun...we will not see that out of him, big contract or not, he will not mail it in...

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06-12-2013, 09:04 AM
  #294
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What a load of crap. What has Subban said or done that indicates he wants to be UFA. He's said multiple times he wants to be a Habs for life, and the fact that he ended up accepting such a low offer is proof enough that Subban wants to be here. The vast majority of stars re-sign with their team, why do you think the UFA market seems to get worse every year. It's because the star players get re-signed before they hit the market. If we had signed Subban long term we could've then re-signed him again before he hit the market. If anything forcing him to sign such a low offer will increase the odds that he becomes UFA as he probably feels he wasn't treated fairly by Bergevin.
chances are that, wen he'll see the numbers on his new contract offer, he'll probably forget abot the previous contract actually.

If players had grudges over contract negos, they'd all wait for UFA to change teams...

come on now...

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06-12-2013, 09:05 AM
  #295
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And for the love of all that is good and holy, please get it done quickly. I can just imagine if Meehan and Bergevin are announced as talking about a long term deal and one isn't announced right away. The trade boards will be fun.

"Proposal: Subban to Toronto

Wendel's Mustache posted: To Toronto: Subban. To Montreal: Gardiner, 2nd (2015). Montreal rids themselves of a major distraction (and no more fights at practice)and save for their cap, while acquiring a top flight D prospect who could surpass Subban as early as next year"

"Proposal: Subban + for Yakupov?

Oil be Waiting posted: To Edmonton: Subban, conditional 1st (2014 or 2015). to Montreal: Yakupov. Edmonton takes Subban off Montreal's hands and rids them of a one-dimensional locker room cancer, Montreal acquires an elite scorer to continue their rebuild "
Lol both trade seems total **** to me, i would not give Subban for eigther Gardiner or Yakupov.

Anyway i can't wait to see what is going to happen after he win the Norris. Here is how i figure the problem:

Subban normally should be paid 2,8M next year with the contract he have. But Bergevin have said he might re-negociate this contract at the end of the year depending on how he perform.

So if Bergevin dont renegociate contract: Subban will ask more after because he will feel he got ripped at 2,8m with his Norris, he might ask 8m per year or so and this might be too muchfor the salary cap.

If Begevin re-sign him at the end of the year for like 6,5-7m per year for 6-8 year, then he will pay more next year, but free some space of salary cap for the years to come.

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06-12-2013, 09:32 AM
  #296
Sorinth
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
chances are that, wen he'll see the numbers on his new contract offer, he'll probably forget abot the previous contract actually.

If players had grudges over contract negos, they'd all wait for UFA to change teams...
come on now...
I'm sure most of the time the players feel like they are properly paid so that explains why they don't always head to UFA. But if you think all players are willing to simply forgive and forget when they feel slighted you are extremely naive.

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06-12-2013, 09:41 AM
  #297
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Doughty got some serious cash, and then seemed to mail it in...because he wouldn't take a bridge contract...some of these kids get too much $$$ way too soon...

PK is a very motivated young gun...we will not see that out of him, big contract or not, he will not mail it in...
Mail it in? Are you freaking kidding me. He was instrumental in the Kings cup win, following his big money contract. He was stellar again this year, didn't put up huge point totals, but was the key hog in LA's D, much the same way PK was.

Players don't typically mail it in after signing big money, this is almost a non concern, if they are being offered outstanding money, for the most part they have worked their tail off to get there, the odd time it might be true, but for the most part this rarely happens, slumps and off years != mailing it in. Every player has them.

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06-12-2013, 09:42 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Mail it in? Are you freaking kidding me. He was instrumental in the Kings cup win, following his big money contract. He was stellar again this year, didn't put up huge point totals, but was the key hog in LA's D, much the same way PK was.

Players don't typically mail it in after signing big money, this is almost a non concern, if they are being offered outstanding money, for the most part they have worked their tail off to get there, the odd time it might be true, but for the most part this rarely happens, slumps and off years != mailing it in. Every player has them.
Doughty has been pretty avg since signing his big deal...just my .02 cents...

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06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
chances are that, wen he'll see the numbers on his new contract offer, he'll probably forget abot the previous contract actually.

If players had grudges over contract negos, they'd all wait for UFA to change teams...

come on now...
I think the concern is a minor one, but to ignore it entirely and speak for pk is a little much, no one knows for sure how this will play out. I think we're most likely fine and the days of PK receiving low-ball offers are over and done, he'll get paid and he'll most likely be fine with that, but we don't know if it made him sour. It may have, who the hells knows.

I don't think he'll be leaving cash on the table this time around though.

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06-12-2013, 09:46 AM
  #300
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Doughty has been pretty avg since signing his big deal...just my .02 cents...
Maybe you should watch him play. He's been extremely good since then. He just doesn't have the point totals, he's rounding into a great TWD. One of the best in the NHL still.

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