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RW Valeri Nichushkin - Chelyabinsk, KHL (2013, 10th overall, Dallas)

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06-11-2013, 10:38 PM
  #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
No. Lindholm's game is NOTHING like Bergfors. Style-wise he's more like Claude Giroux. Lindholm will be a good one.... and has nothing in common with those fickle Russians like Grigorenko/Nichushkin who have big questions about their work ethic, passion and dedication to be main contributors in the NHL.
We go from comparing two players' games' to two players' work ethic?

Nichushkin and Grigorenko play nothing alike. For starters they play different positions.

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06-11-2013, 10:40 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Because Grigorenko has had a lot of time to live up to those "expectations".

Some ******* people on this site.
If you're a Sabres fan, In 6-7 years you'll be sick over this kid, wondering WHY he didn't end up half the player he "should" have been. The same signs were there with Viktor Kozlov and Nik Antropov.... big frames, good skaters with top skills, yet questions about dedication, intensity, work ethic and heart.

Notice those things were NEVER said about Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, etc. There are warning signs but teams will always take a chance on super talent hoping they can get the players to "change" mentally. It rarely happens.

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06-11-2013, 10:42 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
We go from comparing two players' games' to two players' work ethic?

Nichushkin and Grigorenko play nothing alike. For starters they play different positions.
Doesn't matter. They are both hulking Russians who skate very well and use their frames taking the puck to the net. Both are more deadly 10 feet out and actually have similar styles. The same questions about dedication that are being raised by scouts in regards to Nichushkin now were raised last year about Grigorenko. You do know that right?

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06-11-2013, 10:46 PM
  #779
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Grigo is slow like turtle/ and he didnt combine tests - Nich is a guy who loves to work day and night.

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06-11-2013, 10:49 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Doesn't matter. They are both hulking Russians who skate very well and use their frames taking the puck to the net. Both are more deadly 10 feet out and actually have similar styles. The same questions about dedication that are being raised by scouts in regards to Nichushkin now were raised last year about Grigorenko. You do know that right?
...Really?

Swedish player: Let's compare him to one of the most dynamic players in the game!
Russian player: Let's compare him to a poster boy of talented mediocrity and a player not yet in the NHL!

In one, you're comparing two players' stylistically. In the other, you're comparing who you think they will turn out to be. Doesn't that seem a bit unfair?

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06-11-2013, 10:53 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Doesn't matter. They are both hulking Russians who skate very well and use their frames taking the puck to the net. Both are more deadly 10 feet out and actually have similar styles. The same questions about dedication that are being raised by scouts in regards to Nichushkin now were raised last year about Grigorenko. You do know that right?
Yes, nuances don't matter. Good post.

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06-11-2013, 10:58 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
...Really?

Swedish player: Let's compare him to one of the most dynamic players in the game!
Russian player: Let's compare him to a poster boy of talented mediocrity and a player not yet in the NHL!

In one, you're comparing two players' stylistically. In the other, you're comparing who you think they will turn out to be. Doesn't that seem a bit unfair?
It's not Swedish vs Russian thing. I praised Ovechkin, Malkin and Kovalchuk in my post. I am describing STYLE of play.... Lindholm's style of play is very similar to Giroux.

My issue is with Sr. Scouts commenting on Nichushkin's performance at the tests..... quitting tests.... horrible interview. This seems like a kid who is very unfocused or disinterested. Let's be honest, when was the last time a top Swedish prospect entering the draft decided to NOT come to the NHL and opt to stay in the SEL for his career? Or come to the NHL for a couple of seasons and split? Some (not all) of these new Russians are flaky or weird like that.... Radulov, Morozov, Kuznetsov. All I'm saying is that scouts felt there were warning signs in Grigorenko last year and Nichushkin this year. Malkin and Ovechkin never dogged it in tests or had red flags about their game, personality, heart or dedication.

And just so you don't think I'm anti Russian or anything silly like that..... there have been some GREAT Russian prospect in recent years with NO warning signs in terms of heart, dedication.......

Malkin
Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
Tarasenko
Kulikov
Burmistrov
Orlov
Yakupov
Zadorov (this year)

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Old
06-11-2013, 11:39 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
I think it should be noted that he doesn't speak much English and needed a translator in his interviews.

I also noted this on another board, but what exactly does "bad interviews" mean? Did he say that once here, he would bang the GM's daughter? Did he answer "Yes" to "Who deserved the Norris more: Phaneuf or Gardiner"? What does he mean?
A former exec once said on radio that Al MacInnis was the worst interviewee he ever had. They still took him because they thought he was an amazing player.

Brett Hull could do a grand total of one chin-up at training camp. He scored 60 goals that season.

I know some test results and Twitter rumors are all us fans have to work with but man, some people look way too hard into all this crap. Good thing with these kids is that barring serious injuries and/or tragedies, we'll all have our answers in a few years.

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06-11-2013, 11:50 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I think the guy on twitter was talking about the windgate test, if memory serves me right I saw it talked about on another forum. And in the windgate you basically go as hard as you can till you physically cant go anymore. In the video it shows a guy saying "1 more minute" and Nischuskin stopped pretty quickly after. But the statement was for motivation, not as a time he actually had to go for.

If he did quit on tests that may raise alarms, but what tests at the combine can you actually quit? (willingly, not because your tired/weak)
The VO2 test involves churning away on a bike until you can't go any more; the cutoff is 15 minutes.

The Wingate test is a 30-second resisted sprint on a bike, which has been known to induce vomiting in even well-conditioned athletes. Even in NHL training camps, there's normally a trashcan within close proximity of the bike.

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06-12-2013, 01:05 AM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
If you're a Sabres fan, In 6-7 years you'll be sick over this kid, wondering WHY he didn't end up half the player he "should" have been.
Thanks for sharing your crystal ball. It's pretty impressive how you can synthesize several conflicting accounts of his combine performance, interview translation, and work ethic into one monolithic indictment of a talented 18-year-old hockey player. Congrats, dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
The same signs were there with Viktor Kozlov and Nik Antropov.... big frames, good skaters with top skills, yet questions about dedication, intensity, work ethic and heart.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....No one EVER suggested Antropov was a good skater.


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06-12-2013, 07:36 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The VO2 test involves churning away on a bike until you can't go any more; the cutoff is 15 minutes.

The Wingate test is a 30-second resisted sprint on a bike, which has been known to induce vomiting in even well-conditioned athletes. Even in NHL training camps, there's normally a trashcan within close proximity of the bike.
IF hockey is your life and you want to play in the top league in the world, I would hope you would suck it up. I've done both (college soccer) and you can bet schools wouldn't have called back if I just hopped off and said "**** this".

Everyone always rambles on that you can't teach skill, but it's evidently easy to change a person's personality with a little nurturing. That is such a ton of crap.

That being said, I question the validity of the statements about Nich since I feel like more people would have commented about it if it was indeed THAT bad. But if true, I wouldn't even want the Devs to take him at #9.

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06-12-2013, 08:43 AM
  #787
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
IF hockey is your life and you want to play in the top league in the world, I would hope you would suck it up. I've done both (college soccer) and you can bet schools wouldn't have called back if I just hopped off and said "**** this".

Everyone always rambles on that you can't teach skill, but it's evidently easy to change a person's personality with a little nurturing. That is such a ton of crap.

That being said, I question the validity of the statements about Nich since I feel like more people would have commented about it if it was indeed THAT bad. But if true, I wouldn't even want the Devs to take him at #9.
It wasnt anything bad. Nichuskin did his best. When he was been asked to keep going , he did try and stopped when there was nothing "left in the tank"...he did look pale, like he was about to vomit. I don't see that as quitting...every prospect has to stop at some point. I simply see it as him not being in top shape right now...and thats something he said he will work on in the summer. He plans to work out in American during the summer.

Not all Russian players are the same. Its amazing how quickly people on HF love to jump to conclusions over some Twitter nonsense.

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07-02-2013, 01:08 AM
  #788
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I wanted BUF to take Nich so I could watch him play with Grig for ten years.

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07-02-2013, 01:57 AM
  #789
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It's crazy how much I'm reading about Grigorenko being terrible and garbage like that.

HE IS 19 YEARS OLD!!!!

What were you doing when you were 19 years old? Dayum. Same goes for Nich. The guy hasn't even had one practice or met his teammates yet he is already a horrible person or something.

What the hell?

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07-02-2013, 02:12 AM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Malkin
Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
Tarasenko
Kulikov
Burmistrov
Orlov
Yakupov
Zadorov (this year)
Burmistrov is close to signing a contract with KHL club. So, he is not belong your list anymore obviously and is more like weird and flaky:

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07-02-2013, 07:01 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Grigorenko 2.0..... aka both are the next Viktor Kozlovs..... great size, skill and potential but never live up to expectations.
Give it a minute, its going to space...

Yeah, what a disappointment Grigs has been in 25 nhl games.

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07-03-2013, 06:18 PM
  #792
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Hod da **** did Carolina, Calgary, Edmonton, Buffalo, and Vancouver pass on this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1T7Gx3ooBk

Dallas got themselves a nice gift there.

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07-03-2013, 06:52 PM
  #793
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yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
Hod da **** did Carolina, Calgary, Edmonton, Buffalo, and Vancouver pass on this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1T7Gx3ooBk

Dallas got themselves a nice gift there.

When you think about it, Kuznetsov dropped all the way to 26th to the Caps and is doing pretty well right now. Nichushkin has as much, if not more upside, and is also 6'4 (Kuznetsov is 6'0). Jim Nill does not mess around

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07-03-2013, 07:00 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Evgeny Oliker View Post
When you think about it, Kuznetsov dropped all the way to 26th to the Caps and is doing pretty well right now. Nichushkin has as much, if not more upside, and is also 6'4 (Kuznetsov is 6'0). Jim Nill does not mess around
Kuznetsov is 6'3... He didn't drop at the draft. He was projected at that range. He has been developing alot after the draft.

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07-03-2013, 08:56 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Backami View Post
Burmistrov is close to signing a contract with KHL club. So, he is not belong your list anymore obviously and is more like weird and flaky:
Burmi's effort level and heart are definitely top notch which was the OP's primary point....when it comes to dedication most think the KHL thing is a leverage play and I will believe it when I see him leave the NHL. anything is possible but his agent got the rumors rolling around the draft so take it with a grain of salt. Burmi has had a run in or two with Noel but nobody I know questions his compete level......just a bit stubborn at times.

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07-03-2013, 10:56 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
Hod da **** did Carolina, Calgary, Edmonton, Buffalo, and Vancouver pass on this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1T7Gx3ooBk

Dallas got themselves a nice gift there.
I you watch the video it the same highlights looped over and over again. His work ethic is questionable and quitting at the combine did not help.

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07-03-2013, 11:19 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
I see no scenario where horvat goes over Nichushkin, as they are both wingers, and Nichushkin has higher upside and better tools. Zadorov and Nurse are both defenseman you might be able to build a franchise around however, so there's a chance they go higher. How many teams have successfully built a winner around a winger?
Ironic, considering it was written by a Canucks fan (No disrespect to the poster, I just found it amusing)

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07-04-2013, 12:31 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Doesn't matter. They are both hulking Russians who skate very well and use their frames taking the puck to the net. Both are more deadly 10 feet out and actually have similar styles. The same questions about dedication that are being raised by scouts in regards to Nichushkin now were raised last year about Grigorenko. You do know that right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I you watch the video it the same highlights looped over and over again. His work ethic is questionable and quitting at the combine did not help.
The hell are you talking about? Where was his work ethic ever questioned?

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07-04-2013, 12:40 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Ironic, considering it was written by a Canucks fan (No disrespect to the poster, I just found it amusing)
Maybe that was before he found out Horvat's not a winger

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07-04-2013, 12:49 AM
  #800
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The hell are you talking about? Where was his work ethic ever questioned?
At the U18's for sure. Granted he came there straight from a long KHL playoff run and was dealing with his transfer issues but still. On the other hand he was said to have been just out of this world at the U18 tournament held earlier in the spring. Another concern is the hockey sense so he really is a lot like Rick Nash

He is one of my favorite prospects and I'm glad he went to Dallas but this player is vary raw. He has the size, the skating and skill to play in the NHL but I'm not sure at all he's ready.

Both his agent and he said the part of their deal with Dynamo was that if he doesn't make the NHL, he'd go back to play for Dynamo. Once Dallas signs him to a contract though, for them Nichushkin is like any other player and they don't have to care a lick about such arrangements. It's a good possibility he's not ready for the league (especially for a coach like Ruff) so I'm very interested to see what happens if they should send him to the AHL.

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