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Old
06-12-2013, 02:11 PM
  #26
Eskimo44
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No way Paajarvi gets throw in. Del Zotto for the 7th is fair but i don't know if it's the ideal fit here in Edmonton. I'd think long and hard, and i'd probably do it too. If NY wants Paajarvi it's with the 37th, not the 7th, and i wouldn't make that trade.

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06-12-2013, 02:16 PM
  #27
supert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Mystery box syndrome.
Or maybe take a look at a team needs . They Oilers biggest need is centres . Maybe go and try to package 2 centre men to the Pens ,if they had 2 first rd picks . I am pretty sure they stick with the picks and draft for need . The Oilers have a lot of D men coming thru the system . Think , before knocking them .

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06-12-2013, 02:28 PM
  #28
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Oilers get absolutely fleeced. MDZ isn't worth a top 10 pick, and Paajarvi is worth more than a 3rd.
While complementary assets exist, unfortunately, these 2 clubs REALLY do not see eye to eye on value.

I dispute the bold.
I could see less than a 3rd AND a conditional pick for MPS, but not a larger one outright,

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06-12-2013, 02:35 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
No way Paajarvi gets throw in. Del Zotto for the 7th is fair but i don't know if it's the ideal fit here in Edmonton. I'd think long and hard, and i'd probably do it too. If NY wants Paajarvi it's with the 37th, not the 7th, and i wouldn't make that trade.
Agree.
Keep MPS his potential upside to you worth more than what actual payment would be involved.

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Old
06-12-2013, 02:37 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
It's funny how Rangers fans call Paajarvi a disappointment/bust, when Kreider is in the exact same boat. Yet, if you ask Rangers fans what they think of Kreider, they talk him up like he'll be a star.
Yeah I don't get that either and I'm a Rangers fan.

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06-12-2013, 02:40 PM
  #31
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
No way Paajarvi gets throw in. Del Zotto for the 7th is fair but i don't know if it's the ideal fit here in Edmonton. I'd think long and hard, and i'd probably do it too. If NY wants Paajarvi it's with the 37th, not the 7th, and i wouldn't make that trade.
Pretty much agreed. Not sure if I would do MDZ for just the 7th (but would think long and hard about it much like you would for the 7th alone).

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Old
06-12-2013, 02:43 PM
  #32
Mr Forever
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The Oilers disrespectfully decline. This is a terrible deal.

Mystery box syndrome my ass. Maybe, just maybe, Del Zotto isn't that good? If he was so good, the Rangers probably wouldn't have him in every single trade proposal ever. Who is he, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd?

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06-12-2013, 02:51 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
Or maybe take a look at a team needs . They Oilers biggest need is centres . Maybe go and try to package 2 centre men to the Pens ,if they had 2 first rd picks . I am pretty sure they stick with the picks and draft for need . The Oilers have a lot of D men coming thru the system . Think , before knocking them .
Yes, because I just pulled the "top 4 defender to Edmonton" theory out of my own head.

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06-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Oilers disrespectfully decline. This is a terrible deal.

Mystery box syndrome my ass. Maybe, just maybe, Del Zotto isn't that good? If he was so good, the Rangers probably wouldn't have him in every single trade proposal ever. Who is he, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd?
Or maybe, just maybe, we have two, established LHD ahead of him and we can afford to trade him for a worthwhile return?

Nah. That can't be right. Players only get offered up in trade when they just aren't that good. Must really kill the value of Gagner and Hemsky, eh?


Last edited by Trxjw: 06-12-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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Old
06-12-2013, 03:01 PM
  #35
Kwayry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Oilers disrespectfully decline. This is a terrible deal.

Mystery box syndrome my ass. Maybe, just maybe, Del Zotto isn't that good? If he was so good, the Rangers probably wouldn't have him in every single trade proposal ever. Who is he, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd?
Opinion based on proposals made by other misinformed posters. Brilliant.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:35 PM
  #36
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Or maybe, just maybe, we have two, established LHD ahead of him and we can afford to trade him for a worthwhile return?

Nah. That can't be right. Players only get offered up in trade when they just aren't that good. Must really kill the value of Gagner and Hemsky, eh?
Logic bomb.

Pretty much this. We have the ability to move MDZ and would be willing to. Nothing much more to add.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:19 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Oilers disrespectfully decline. This is a terrible deal.

Mystery box syndrome my ass. Maybe, just maybe, Del Zotto isn't that good? If he was so good, the Rangers probably wouldn't have him in every single trade proposal ever. Who is he, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd?
It's no different than Oilers fans and Gagner, just because he's offered a lot doesn't make him worthless. He's probably, (again, like Gagner) just not the ideal fit for the makeup of their team.

I certainly wouldn't do this deal as originally structured, though. Awful for the Oilers.

And Paajarvi is certainly worth more than a 4th and a conditional pick or whatever it was somebody said, gimme a break.

Edit: And I see I was beaten to the punch.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #38
Eskimo44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Agree.
Keep MPS his potential upside to you worth more than what actual payment would be involved.
Big fast players with skill always have tremendous value. Especially when they've had success in the NHL and other pro leagues at such a young age. I think many would be suprised at how much value he has. He's better than Kreider by a long shot in terms of offense, has the same skillset, and has better pedigree. Yet i believe you would think Kreider is worth much more than a 3rd despite his dismal year.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:17 PM
  #39
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Big fast players with skill always have tremendous value. Especially when they've had success in the NHL and other pro leagues at such a young age. I think many would be suprised at how much value he has. He's better than Kreider by a long shot in terms of offense, has the same skillset, and has better pedigree. Yet i believe you would think Kreider is worth much more than a 3rd despite his dismal year.
Kreider is worth way more. That doesn't mean if you feel MPS has legit upside you should move him on the cheap to anyone.

Now, being polite and succinct about it:

MPS has had multiple seasons to succeed. He seems to be getting there but is obviously not there yet, which is not a crime, but when you are a somewhat high first, cutting it sooner than later is better.

Kreider finished college. His first pro appearance if I'm not mistaken was w/Rangers in prior playoffs.
THIS is his FIRST year as pro.

It was horrible. But it was horrible because Torts was intent on breaking him saying, presumably to effect that, it's not enough you have out athleticized all your prior competition, you have to learn certain aspects for a pro game.

That was fine.

But then they kept getting in his inexperienced head. It appears he kept thinking about something multiple times before doing it. Recipe for disaster.

This year's playoffs come again, Again Torts is desperate, again shackles come off, and Kreider is moved off of the duds and doldrums of the 4th line to play w/Nash. Voilla!

With the image of Torts buh bye, I am confident Kreider will, given a season or two of experience, turn into the player I expect him to be.

Good luck to you with MPS on that.
CK has proven he can cut the mustard in the playoffs.

MPS has yet to prove.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:33 PM
  #40
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neatman View Post
Easy no from Edmonton.

MDZ would be a nice piece for sure, but the 7th is the Oiler's best chance at filling a big need for a 2- way #2C ( or even #1B). Throwing in MPS, who has made significant strides in the last year to becoming an effective NHL forward, just makes it not close at all.
Um... did Sam Gagner die or or something? It wasn't too long ago that Mac-T stated that getting Gagner resigned and now allowing him to become the youngest UFA in NHL history is his biggest priority right now.


As for the OP, I'd take MPS out for starters.
Then I'd make sure DMZ was resigned to a 4-6 year contract extension for whatever people deem to be reasonable.
Then I might even have Nick Schultz tossed in from Edmonton's side.
Then I'm pretty sure I'd have New York throw struggling Kreider into the mix.
And then I'd have Edmonton toss in a 2nd or 3rd rounder to appease distraught Rangers fans.

To Edmonton:
MDZ
Kreider

To New York:
7th overall
Nick Schultz
2nd/3rd round pick.

New York gets a high draft pick and a decent 3rd pairing d-man.
Edmonton gets a top 4 d-man who can move the puck well and a big left winger who'll at least be good enough to turn into a good checking line winger. There's a shot in the dark that he could turn into a top 6 forward, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:48 PM
  #41
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Here is the issue with trades like these.

We have heard all season from NY fans about how lackluster MDZ is playing , and then when you try and trade him for the 45th time you ask for a huge return.

Oil fans do the same with Gagner, Hemsky etc..

But in actuality, Paajarvi had a good season. He earned his spot on the team and won some games for us that we should not have won.

The deal is fair. But Paajarvi is not a disappointment. Look at Cogliano, he may not have lived up to his expectations but he is a key depth player on a contending team.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:23 PM
  #42
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Del zotto is worth more than Pav and the #7 won't help us now

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:27 PM
  #43
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Dont do it Edmonton, dont!

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Old
06-12-2013, 09:31 PM
  #44
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Take out Paajarvi and I'd probably do it as an Oiler fan. He is a young puck moving D who is proven to be capable at 22+ minutes a night. Exactly what the oilers need. At only 22yo.

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Old
06-12-2013, 10:00 PM
  #45
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzoilerfan View Post
Take out Paajarvi and I'd probably do it as an Oiler fan. He is a young puck moving D who is proven to be capable at 22+ minutes a night. Exactly what the oilers need. At only 22yo.
I'm convinced that Edmonton can do better with the 7th overall pick.

If Edmonton in Vancouver were not playing in the same division, I imagine that the majority of Canucks fans would be cool with Edler for 7th overall straight up if the right guy was available at 7th and I'd take Edler over MDZ each and every day of the week.

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Old
06-12-2013, 10:16 PM
  #46
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easy no from edmonton's side. also, i don't think they need another pmd

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Old
06-12-2013, 10:25 PM
  #47
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Edler would cost more then the 7th straight up.

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Old
06-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #48
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After year 1 - Untouchable
After year 2 - Trade him
After year 3 - Untouchable
After year 4 - Trade him

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:46 PM
  #49
Boom Boom Geoffrion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Easy no for Edm. MDZ is way too one dimensional.
One dimensional my ass. Aside for his ability to thread the needle and make that big pass out of the zone, MDZ plays a physical game as well. He has snarl. He blocks shots. He can actually play defense. Solid gap control. Doesn't get beaten wide. Can stifle forwards along the boards.

Get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Oilers get absolutely fleeced. MDZ isn't worth a top 10 pick, and Paajarvi is worth more than a 3rd.
He's easily worth a top-10 pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
It's funny how Rangers fans call Paajarvi a disappointment/bust, when Kreider is in the exact same boat. Yet, if you ask Rangers fans what they think of Kreider, they talk him up like he'll be a star.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Kreider: 23 games played
MPS: 162 games played.
If Kreider is as disappointing as MPS after 150 games then you may have a point, right now you don't. Try again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Mystery box syndrome.


A possibly is always more valuable than an already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
A 23 year old top-4 puck mover is a 23 year old top-4 puck mover, but the #7 pick could be anything! It could even be a top-4 puck mover!
I lol'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Oilers disrespectfully decline. This is a terrible deal.

Mystery box syndrome my ass. Maybe, just maybe, Del Zotto isn't that good? If he was so good, the Rangers probably wouldn't have him in every single trade proposal ever. Who is he, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd?
It's funny that most of the proposals on the Rangers board comes from like, 6 different people. You should watch him play and form your own opinion about the player instead of assuming those fools know what they're talking about. Half of them are NHL-13 junkies and think it's reasonable to trade half your roster from year to year anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Here is the issue with trades like these.

We have heard all season from NY fans about how lackluster MDZ is playing , and then when you try and trade him for the 45th time you ask for a huge return.
Here is the issue with message boards.

1 dumbass spams a few proposals on a forum about a specific player, starts a hate-thread that stirs up most of the fanbase, and whines about every little hiccup, purposely trying to blow things out of proportion to look like a know-it-all professional whose opinion needs to be respected.

Before you know it, that dumbass has amassed a team of less ambitious dumbasses who eventually build the courage to bless our trade-forum with their awesome proposals featuring that same player.

Everyone witnesses these proposals and assumes they are there for a reason.

The only reason why MDZ would be available, is due to our log-jam as LD.

MDZ was the team's best dmen for a very good portion of the year. But much like many other young players in the league, he's still working on his consistency. His play tailed off towards the end but he was nowhere near horrendous, bad, marginal, or less than average like some people suggest. There were Rangers fans complaining about Lundqvist at times this year, so you can't put too much into what's being said.

PMD have tremendous value around the league. GM's have proven this time and time again. The fact that he's only 22 and will continue to improve all aspects of his game makes this trade proposal a very, very easy no from NY.

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:58 PM
  #50
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
While complementary assets exist, unfortunately, these 2 clubs REALLY do not see eye to eye on value.

I dispute the bold.
I could see less than a 3rd AND a conditional pick for MPS, but not a larger one outright,
While I've read these forums for several years and have seen you to be a respectable and knowledgeable poster, I have to tell you that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

6'2 speedy two-way forwards don't grow on trees. And ones with a high draft pedigree and three years of professional hockey under their belt who are finding their game and trending upward are worth well more than you'd think apparently.

And while you may be wrong, I won't crucify you as you likely haven't seen all 48 games he's played this season.

And in response to the OP: Just No.

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