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Old
06-12-2013, 10:33 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Yeah he is a dominant player and he may deserve a raise but you realize he's coming off a contract w/ a cap hit of 8.7mil. He's putting his team in a bad position (not that I really care about the pens) but 10mil per is ridiculous. He would be making more money then Crosby at that point (who when healthy is obviously the better hockey player). Additionally he actually played arguably his best hockey before his 5 yr extention but now he wants a raise. Say what you will but big time players who get 10 mil per (Forsberg comes to mind) get it done when it matters most.

Yes I realize Foresberg made 10 mil per a while back and with inflation it would be much more today but times have changed and no one gets that type of money anymore.

I'd also appreciate it if you checked you sarcasm and hostility, there's no need for that.
I don't understand your reasoning. Because his contract is already high, he shouldn't ask for a raise, or because his contract is so high that a raise would hurt the team he shouldn't ask for a raise? Malkin is a top talent in the league. Ok, he didn't play well in the ECF, but he did the remainder of the playoffs and throughout the season. If he wants to stay in Pittsburgh and not take a raise, great. But if he wants a raise, he is certainly entitled to it. From what I have seen from him, he is not slowing down any time soon. He is 27 years old, so barring any injury likely has ten years or so left in the tank, much which will be at elite performance. What exactly should he be asking for? Is $9 million too much? $9.5 million? I'm not trying to be a dick, but he makes $8.7 million and you say yourself he is dominant and deserves a raise.

Yes, he may make more than Crosby, but that is irrelevant. Crosby is on a team friendly deal and not up for a contract extension. If he was, he would probably be asking for more money too (unless he wanted to take a deal that helps the team, which Malkin is clearly not interested in). Malkin will be a UFA next season. If he wants $10 million, chances are someone will give it to him (barring something crazy happening next season injury-wise). If he wants to stay in Pitt, I agree that getting $10 million would hurt the team, but I think he knows that as well and likely doesn't care where he gets the $10 million from, which is why he is asking for it.

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06-12-2013, 10:34 AM
  #377
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06-12-2013, 10:59 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't understand your reasoning. Because his contract is already high, he shouldn't ask for a raise, or because his contract is so high that a raise would hurt the team he shouldn't ask for a raise? Malkin is a top talent in the league. Ok, he didn't play well in the ECF, but he did the remainder of the playoffs and throughout the season. If he wants to stay in Pittsburgh and not take a raise, great. But if he wants a raise, he is certainly entitled to it. From what I have seen from him, he is not slowing down any time soon. He is 27 years old, so barring any injury likely has ten years or so left in the tank, much which will be at elite performance. What exactly should he be asking for? Is $9 million too much? $9.5 million? I'm not trying to be a dick, but he makes $8.7 million and you say yourself he is dominant and deserves a raise.

Yes, he may make more than Crosby, but that is irrelevant. Crosby is on a team friendly deal and not up for a contract extension. If he was, he would probably be asking for more money too (unless he wanted to take a deal that helps the team, which Malkin is clearly not interested in). Malkin will be a UFA next season. If he wants $10 million, chances are someone will give it to him (barring something crazy happening next season injury-wise). If he wants to stay in Pitt, I agree that getting $10 million would hurt the team, but I think he knows that as well and likely doesn't care where he gets the $10 million from, which is why he is asking for it.
The cap has also gone up a lot since his current deal was inked. At the time it took up 15% of the Pens cap. With the 64.3 mil cap, 10 million would be 15%, again. I don't think it's a big deal...but the Pens might want to look into trading him to build more depth.

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06-12-2013, 11:10 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't understand your reasoning. Because his contract is already high, he shouldn't ask for a raise, or because his contract is so high that a raise would hurt the team he shouldn't ask for a raise?
Both. His contract is already high and if anything he's been stagnant (referring to his play since he signed his most recent extension) so why ask for a raise unless something has change between him and the organization?

Quote:
Malkin is a top talent in the league. Ok, he didn't play well in the ECF, but he did the remainder of the playoffs and throughout the season. If he wants to stay in Pittsburgh and not take a raise, great. But if he wants a raise, he is certainly entitled to it. From what I have seen from him, he is not slowing down any time soon. He is 27 years old, so barring any injury likely has ten years or so left in the tank, much which will be at elite performance. What exactly should he be asking for? Is $9 million too much? $9.5 million? I'm not trying to be a dick, but he makes $8.7 million and you say yourself he is dominant and deserves a raise.
I said he may deserve a raise cause one could argue that but I wouldn't necessarily agree. IMO he's fine right where he is now, 8.7 mil or 9 mil (not really a raise considering inflation/cost of living and all that). As I said before he hasn't out performed himself so how can you take a "discount" at 8.7 per for 5 yrs then turn around to the same team and say I want 10 when you haven't gotten any better, in fact you're closer to moving past your prime (I agree though he probably has a ways to go). This is where may comment about audacity comes into play.

Idk, maybe he is worth more (to another team for example) but the word worth is relative.

Quote:
Yes, he may make more than Crosby, but that is irrelevant. Crosby is on a team friendly deal and not up for a contract extension. If he was, he would probably be asking for more money too (unless he wanted to take a deal that helps the team, which Malkin is clearly not interested in). Malkin will be a UFA next season. If he wants $10 million, chances are someone will give it to him (barring something crazy happening next season injury-wise). If he wants to stay in Pitt, I agree that getting $10 million would hurt the team, but I think he knows that as well and likely doesn't care where he gets the $10 million from, which is why he is asking for it.
In my opinion when the face of your franchise, your captain has been labeled the best player in the world you don't turn around and give someone else on the team more money. Maybe that's stupid but that's just how I think of things, to me that's not irrelevant at all.

So just to sum up my pov, he's an elite player that didn't step up when his team needed him and things mattered most, he then requests a substantial raise when he hasn't improved his play from his previous contract, which would not only put the organization in a bind financially but would also make him the highest payed player on the team when Crosby is there. Again he may be worth it to another team as the worth of a player is relative (a team may be willing to give him an extra mil to two cause they are in desperate need like Nashville for example though they have some nice young talent coming up so they'll be a contender soon IMO) but to ask 10 mil per from the pens is ballsy IMO and quite frankly I don't like it. If shows he either doesn't give a crap about the team/only cares about himself or that there's some sort of conflict going on in which case he may be looking to force a trade.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The cap has also gone up a lot since his current deal was inked. At the time it took up 15% of the Pens cap. With the 64.3 mil cap, 10 million would be 15%, again. I don't think it's a big deal...but the Pens might want to look into trading him to build more depth.
I considered this as well but I don't really get this argument. Why should it matter the percent of the cap he's taking up? Teams change and may no longer have the capacity to devote such a large sum to an individual. IMO the cost of a player should be based on the contracts around the league, a players age/injury history and a players performance in previous years.


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06-12-2013, 11:10 AM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The cap has also gone up a lot since his current deal was inked. At the time it took up 15% of the Pens cap. With the 64.3 mil cap, 10 million would be 15%, again. I don't think it's a big deal...but the Pens might want to look into trading him to build more depth.
Oh absolutely it is a ton of money and I am not convinced the Pens will sign him for that. All I am saying is that as one of the truly elite dominant players in the NHL, who is already makeing $8.7 million, a raise to $10 million is not unreasonable. I think Malkin knows he is likely pricing himself out of Pittsburgh, and I don't think he cares. He wants to be paid and I think someone will give him what he wants.

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06-12-2013, 11:16 AM
  #381
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Word is that with their deep pool of prospects, they might let Letang walk.

I'd rather they signed him to that contract to cripple them, but realistically, unlike them we might be able to afford him salary should we wait until he's a UFA.

Anyone interested?

I'm hesitant, but he's the kind of PMD we could use despite being a total *****.
I'd do it.
He's not bad defensively, at least not as bad as people make him out to be right now.
He's also pretty nasty. He'd be a fan favorite in no time wearing orange and black.

Problem is though, I don't think the Flyers can afford to sign him to a contract which the Pens won't be able to match. If he hits the market he probably has already priced himself out of Philly.

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06-12-2013, 11:58 AM
  #382
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What does Dan Bylsma have in common with a hockey puck? They're both solidly behind Marc-Andre Fleury
Not yours apparently, but I will still applaud the brilliance of this quote.

So......

If Malkin gets the same breakdown as Crosby for the next 8 years of his contract, if Letang gets signed for 8m per, and if Fleury gets re-signed at the same amount...

Malkin (10.80)
Crosby (8.70)
Letange (8.00)
Fleury (5.00)
Neal (5.00)
Bylsma

TOTAL: 37.50
CAP: 64.30(+)
SPACE: 26.80
PERCENTAGE: 58% on 5 players (and a useless coach)

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06-12-2013, 12:00 PM
  #383
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I'd do it.
He's not bad defensively, at least not as bad as people make him out to be right now.
He's also pretty nasty. He'd be a fan favorite in no time wearing orange and black.

Problem is though, I don't think the Flyers can afford to sign him to a contract which the Pens won't be able to match. If he hits the market he probably has already priced himself out of Philly.
The problem is Letang hits the open market the same year we have to re-up Giroux, Schenn, and Couturier.

If we buyout Bryz and Briere, we can probably afford him realistically at any price up to around 8m. I think I'd pay around 7m honestly. I wouldn't want to pay more.

He'll only be 27 at that point so yeah.

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06-12-2013, 12:22 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Both. His contract is already high and if anything he's been stagnant (referring to his play since he signed his most recent extension) so why ask for a raise unless something has change between him and the organization?
He has been stagnant as one of the most dominating players in the league. In general, unless a player is on the downslope of his career, as long as he stays on the same pace he is on (or better) he will get a raise. The exceptions normally include a guy taking a pay cut to stay on the team or to help the team. This is even more true with a player of Malkin's caliber who would be sought after by every single team in the NHL (and other leagues).

I mean, think about what you are saying. The second best player in the world has dominated his entire career. He is a UFA. He is 27. He is going to get a raise unless he decides to stay for a team friendly deal. Even if you don't think he deserves one for some reason, there is nothing shocking about the "audacity" of Malkin to ask for $1.3 million more.

Quote:
I said he may deserve a raise cause one could argue that but I wouldn't necessarily agree. IMO he's fine right where he is now, 8.7 mil or 9 mil (not really a raise considering inflation/cost of living and all that). As I said before he hasn't out performed himself so how can you take a "discount" at 8.7 per for 5 yrs then turn around to the same team and say I want 10 when you haven't gotten any better, in fact you're closer to moving past your prime (I agree though he probably has a ways to go). This is where may comment about audacity comes into play.

Idk, maybe he is worth more (to another team for example) but the word worth is relative.
Once again, the world doesn't work that way. If you are getting $8.7 million, and are dominating, you are going to get a raise unless you are willing to accept less. It is silly to think that Malkin is making some outrageous demand here. I mean think about UFAs every single year that aren't Evgeni Malkin that get raises for essentially not getting worse. Every year the majority of NHL UFAs (not including fringe NHLers of course, but regular NHL guys that play 82 games a year) get raises. Some of them becuase they improved greatly. Some because their expiring contract was artificially low. Some out of supply and demand. Some because they are simply good players. Now look at Malkin. One of the most dominating players in the NHL since he arrived. He is a 27 year old UFA. Yes he makes a lot, but that doesn't mean he is unreasonable to ask for more.

Quote:
In my opinion when the face of your franchise, your captain has been labeled the best player in the world you don't turn around and give someone else on the team more money. Maybe that's stupid but that's just how I think of things, to me that's not irrelevant at all.
I didn't say Pitt will give it to him, I said Malkin wasn't unreasonable to want it. He very well may price himself out of Pittsburgh, which I think he knows. But he wants $10 million, and based on his play and current contract, that is not an outrageous demand.

Quote:
So just to sum up my pov, he's an elite player that didn't step up when his team needed him and things mattered most, he then requests a substantial raise when he hasn't improved his play from his previous contract, which would not only put the organization in a bind financially but would also make him the highest payed player on the team when Crosby is there. Again he may be worth it to another team as the worth of a player is relative (a team may be willing to give him an extra mil to two cause they are in desperate need like Nashville for example though they have some nice young talent coming up so they'll be a contender soon IMO) but to ask 10 mil per from the pens is ballsy IMO and quite frankly I don't like it. If shows he either doesn't give a crap about the team/only cares about himself or that there's some sort of conflict going on in which case he may be looking to force a trade.
Two things: number one I am not sure that a $1.3 million raise is substantial, but I guess we are defining the word differently. Number 2, I agree that he probably does only care about himself, as I have said that in previous posts...he knows he may price himself out of Pittsburgh and he doesn't care (otherwise...why ask for it?). That doesn't strike me as Evgeni Malkin being audacious or unreasonable. It strikes me as a guy making a ton of money, dominating his sport, and wanting more money. A dick move for sure in terms of hurting the Penguins, and I would hate to see a guy like that screw over the Flyers, but it is not unreasonable. If Giroux was making that much, and playing at the same level as Malkin, I wouldn't be shocked if he asked for a raise. That is how the league and the world work.

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06-12-2013, 12:48 PM
  #385
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The problem is Letang hits the open market the same year we have to re-up Giroux, Schenn, and Couturier.

If we buyout Bryz and Briere, we can probably afford him realistically at any price up to around 8m. I think I'd pay around 7m honestly. I wouldn't want to pay more.

He'll only be 27 at that point so yeah.
Wait, he's not a UFA this year?
I thought he'd might hit the open market this off-season.
Yeah, $7m would be tops. You look at Karlsson and I'd rather have that number down to $6.5m on a 7year deal.

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06-12-2013, 12:59 PM
  #386
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Wait, he's not a UFA this year?
I thought he'd might hit the open market this off-season.
Yeah, $7m would be tops. You look at Karlsson and I'd rather have that number down to $6.5m on a 7year deal.
Letang and Malkin both hit UFA in summer of 2014.

And Karlsson signed an RFA contract. Letang would be a league-available UFA. You're not going to get Karlsson price for Letang.

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06-12-2013, 02:09 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He has been stagnant as one of the most dominating players in the league. In general, unless a player is on the downslope of his career, as long as he stays on the same pace he is on (or better) he will get a raise. The exceptions normally include a guy taking a pay cut to stay on the team or to help the team. This is even more true with a player of Malkin's caliber who would be sought after by every single team in the NHL (and other leagues).

I mean, think about what you are saying. The second best player in the world has dominated his entire career. He is a UFA. He is 27. He is going to get a raise unless he decides to stay for a team friendly deal. Even if you don't think he deserves one for some reason, there is nothing shocking about the "audacity" of Malkin to ask for $1.3 million more.



Once again, the world doesn't work that way. If you are getting $8.7 million, and are dominating, you are going to get a raise unless you are willing to accept less. It is silly to think that Malkin is making some outrageous demand here. I mean think about UFAs every single year that aren't Evgeni Malkin that get raises for essentially not getting worse. Every year the majority of NHL UFAs (not including fringe NHLers of course, but regular NHL guys that play 82 games a year) get raises. Some of them becuase they improved greatly. Some because their expiring contract was artificially low. Some out of supply and demand. Some because they are simply good players. Now look at Malkin. One of the most dominating players in the NHL since he arrived. He is a 27 year old UFA. Yes he makes a lot, but that doesn't mean he is unreasonable to ask for more.



I didn't say Pitt will give it to him, I said Malkin wasn't unreasonable to want it. He very well may price himself out of Pittsburgh, which I think he knows. But he wants $10 million, and based on his play and current contract, that is not an outrageous demand.



Two things: number one I am not sure that a $1.3 million raise is substantial, but I guess we are defining the word differently. Number 2, I agree that he probably does only care about himself, as I have said that in previous posts...he knows he may price himself out of Pittsburgh and he doesn't care (otherwise...why ask for it?). That doesn't strike me as Evgeni Malkin being audacious or unreasonable. It strikes me as a guy making a ton of money, dominating his sport, and wanting more money. A dick move for sure in terms of hurting the Penguins, and I would hate to see a guy like that screw over the Flyers, but it is not unreasonable. If Giroux was making that much, and playing at the same level as Malkin, I wouldn't be shocked if he asked for a raise. That is how the league and the world work.
And I understand that's how it works people get more money for doing why they've been doing for yrs but how does that mean he deserves it? I'm not comparing him to other players players in the league really, more so to himself and the only thing that's changed from his last contract is his age and obviously not in a good way. His next contract willowy likely take him out of his prime (I'm sure he'll still be elite) but why does all that warrant a raise of 13%. Which btw I consider substantial, I never get 13% raises

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06-12-2013, 03:21 PM
  #388
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And I understand that's how it works people get more money for doing why they've been doing for yrs but how does that mean he deserves it? I'm not comparing him to other players players in the league really, more so to himself and the only thing that's changed from his last contract is his age and obviously not in a good way. His next contract willowy likely take him out of his prime (I'm sure he'll still be elite) but why does all that warrant a raise of 13%. Which btw I consider substantial, I never get 13% raises
If you understand how it works why are you saying that he shouldn't be asking for that and saying you can't believe the audacity of Malkin to ask for that?

As far as the raise being substantial, obviously we are a talking about this in terms of NHL raises, not raises for you and I. In the world of the NHL, getting $1.3 million more, especially when you are the #2 player in the world, is not what I would call substantial.

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06-12-2013, 04:03 PM
  #389
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If you understand how it works why are you saying that he shouldn't be asking for that and saying you can't believe the audacity of Malkin to ask for that?

As far as the raise being substantial, obviously we are a talking about this in terms of NHL raises, not raises for you and I. In the world of the NHL, getting $1.3 million more, especially when you are the #2 player in the world, is not what I would call substantial.
Well the last part was a joke but still a 13 percent increase is substantial when nothing has changed besides a players age. Sure it's hockey and raises like that happen often, sometimes even more but typically something changed such as demand or a players production.

Furthermore if I think he isn't deserving of a raise why would I think it ok for him to ask for a raise? Just cause it happens doesn't mean it's right or that it's deserving. Regardless maybe audacious was the wrong word to use in this situation...doυchey seems more appropriate.

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06-12-2013, 05:12 PM
  #390
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Well the last part was a joke but still a 13 percent increase is substantial when nothing has changed besides a players age. Sure it's hockey and raises like that happen often, sometimes even more but typically something changed such as demand or a players production.

Furthermore if I think he isn't deserving of a raise why would I think it ok for him to ask for a raise? Just cause it happens doesn't mean it's right or that it's deserving. Regardless maybe audacious was the wrong word to use in this situation...doυchey seems more appropriate.
Well that is completely different from what you have been seeing. I agree 100% that it is a dick move in terms of the Pens and Pens fans POV. Everyone hates when their best players leave over money disputes. But he certainly is well within the realm of reasonableness in asking for it. This isn't like Ville Leino asking for the moon when he scored a whopping 53 points. This is one of the best players in the world asking for a $1.3 million raise when his contract is up.

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06-12-2013, 05:53 PM
  #391
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Well that is completely different from what you have been seeing. I agree 100% that it is a dick move in terms of the Pens and Pens fans POV. Everyone hates when their best players leave over money disputes. But he certainly is well within the realm of reasonableness in asking for it. This isn't like Ville Leino asking for the moon when he scored a whopping 53 points. This is one of the best players in the world asking for a $1.3 million raise when his contract is up.
I don't think it is. If he doesn't deserve the raise (just my opinion) then he shouldn't be asking for it. That's what was meant by my original comment. I don't think I strayed from that.

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06-12-2013, 06:56 PM
  #392
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IF, big IF, the Coyotes moved so late (June/July) it should be in Seattle I've been told again and again.
Source: Renaud Lavoie @RenLavoieRDS

That makes sense, it wouldn't F up the realignment for next year. I fully expect Quebec to be next in line for a team eventually.

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06-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #393
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06-12-2013, 07:49 PM
  #394
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Dam, Krejci is really good. Never really thought much about him, but he is turning my head. Still wish the Flyers had Lucic. He and Simmer would be awesome!!

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06-12-2013, 07:49 PM
  #395
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Krejci and Lucic are both great

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06-12-2013, 08:21 PM
  #396
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MIKE MIKE MIKE MIKE MIKE

What day is it, mike?

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06-12-2013, 08:24 PM
  #397
FlyingPhilly
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That Chi goal song is really annoying...

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06-12-2013, 08:46 PM
  #398
Krishna
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Jagr's beard is epic

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06-12-2013, 09:03 PM
  #399
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Glenn Healy's incessant slobbering over the greatness of Tuukka Rask has me firmly in Chicago's corner for this series.

I was indifferent, 'cause I like aspects of both teams, but Healy, and even Jim & Craig, have been super annoying already with their praise of Boston.

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06-12-2013, 09:27 PM
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Pretty good game so far. Looks like it should be a close series

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