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Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

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06-12-2013, 02:19 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by unte93 View Post
would Nashville take Hodgson + Vanek + 16 for 4?
****, offer that to the Avs for #1 and see what they say.

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06-12-2013, 02:24 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by unte93 View Post
would Nashville take Hodgson + Vanek + 16 for 4?
That's interesting.

Poile typically ices a competitive roster. He'd be getting youth, team control and talent in Hodgson and a great goal scorer (who has chemistry with Hodgson). That kind of package could put them back in the playoff picture.

Would they slide down 12 picks to do it? I'm not so sure.

But man, talk about best case scenario: Barkov AND Risto.

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06-12-2013, 02:36 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
Now that would be interesting, as the two have exhibited chemistry together, would form 2/3 of #1 or #2 line. Interesting. Maybe a signed Vanek would be more inticing.
If Vanek were signed, Buffalo wouldn't be adding anywhere near that much to him for #4.

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06-12-2013, 02:57 PM
  #154
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My thing is this.... We have a bunch of picks and prospects, we could trade Vanek and Miller for more picks and prospects, and have a ridiculously deep young organization.

Think about all the first round talent we could have in the system if we move miller and Vanek in addition to Grigs, Girgs, Armia, Hodgson, Myers, 2 firsts this year..... I like the chances of finding a superstar in that bunch, instead of trading half of it for Mackinnon.

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06-12-2013, 03:04 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
If Vanek were signed, Buffalo wouldn't be adding anywhere near that much to him for #4.
Nevermind the fact that Vanek can't be signed prior to July 1, the day after the draft. There is no such thing as a "signed (beyond this season) Thomas Vanek" being traded for 2013 draft picks.

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06-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
My thing is this.... We have a bunch of picks and prospects, we could trade Vanek and Miller for more picks and prospects, and have a ridiculously deep young organization.

Think about all the first round talent we could have in the system if we move miller and Vanek in addition to Grigs, Girgs, Armia, Hodgson, Myers, 2 firsts this year..... I like the chances of finding a superstar in that bunch, instead of trading half of it for Mackinnon.
The chance of getting a "superstar" in the bunch they have isn't nearly the same as the likelihood that MacKinnon is the stud to start building around. If that means giving up some talent right now, so be it.

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06-12-2013, 03:09 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
My thing is this.... We have a bunch of picks and prospects, we could trade Vanek and Miller for more picks and prospects, and have a ridiculously deep young organization.

Think about all the first round talent we could have in the system if we move miller and Vanek in addition to Grigs, Girgs, Armia, Hodgson, Myers, 2 firsts this year..... I like the chances of finding a superstar in that bunch, instead of trading half of it for Mackinnon.
Winnipeg has a ton of 1st round picks on their roster

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06-12-2013, 03:14 PM
  #158
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IMO, any package with Grigorenko, I think, will Decrease the amount of additional assets needed to get the #1 more than we think. That is if Roy pushes Sherman to pursue him.

I think a package of Grigorenko + Myers is the base package they could want, and see what they say.

Roy gets the kid he developed, and the big Mobile defenseman in Myers they might have gone after in Seth Jones and if we need to sweeten the pot, throw in the 8th overall pick (I really don't want to but if Colorado said they NEED it to do this, I would)

Its quality over Quantity at this point. IMO, thats how you rebuild. If you're wasting 3-4 picks plus players to get ONE pick, you will turn into the Blue Jackets and Oilers and waste to close to a decade trying to right the ship.

In a REBUILD, especially for a GM who is known to value DRAFT day over Deadline day, then getting rid of picks is not the best nor the most logical way they will do this.

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06-12-2013, 03:16 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
The chance of getting a "superstar" in the bunch they have isn't nearly the same as the likelihood that MacKinnon is the stud to start building around. If that means giving up some talent right now, so be it.
Some, sure. Not Vanek, Miller, 2 firsts and Grigorenko. That's essentially 5 first rounders for a guy who hasn't made a play.

If Buffalo is dead set on spending 5 firsts on a guy, trade for a current young NHL player, or offer sheet someone.

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06-12-2013, 03:16 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Winnipeg has a ton of 1st round picks on their roster
Maybe they drafted poorly.

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06-12-2013, 03:17 PM
  #161
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So in the realm of what it takes to get there -- do the Sabres look at who they might move based on who they might draft? Does Myers go into the kitty if they're trying for Jones? Is Hodgson or Grigorenko or Ennis (oh, how the bloom has faded from that rose... thanks Lindy, you dumbass) in the mix if they're gunning for MacKinnon? I suspect it does, that they would make the roster move coincide to the player selection they are aiming for.

It also seems like they would work from what the Avs want, working backwards in trade to make something happen. If it's Jones, then offering a package with Myers to get Tampa's pick at #3 or if it's MacKinnon, offering a Hodgson package to the Preds for #4.

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06-12-2013, 03:17 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
How about we talk about the possibility of moving up from 16? Because frankly, I'm getting sick of these fantasy type proposals that gut out our organization to get one draft pick.

Swap picks with Phoenix, Winnipeg, or Columbus?
Devine thinks that picks 10 through 25 will get you roughly the same guy. Given that, it will be interesting to see if they target a top 9 that drops and they target him and go up and get him.

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06-12-2013, 03:18 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unte93 View Post
would Nashville take Hodgson + Vanek + 16 for 4?
Without hesitation I'd do that. Nashville...eh, they like Vanek. Their biggest hangup was lacking a scoring center; introduce Hodgson.

Holding 4 and 8 would probably quell MacKinnon mania in me.

Barkov and Ristolainen > MacKinnon.

(Of Course, we could always try 4 to 1 with our remaining assets to get MacKinnon and Ristolainen )

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06-12-2013, 03:22 PM
  #164
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only 18 more days of insanity to go

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06-12-2013, 03:23 PM
  #165
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Is MacKinnon Crosby, or Malkin, or Tavares, or Stamkos? Or is he Nugent-Hopkins?

It would be a real kick in the dick to trade all that for Nugent-Hopkins.

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06-12-2013, 03:23 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Some, sure. Not Vanek, Miller, 2 firsts and Grigorenko. That's essentially 5 first rounders for a guy who hasn't made a play.

If Buffalo is dead set on spending 5 firsts on a guy, trade for a current young NHL player, or offer sheet someone.
I'm not advocating putting Miller and Vanek into these deals. I think they get moved in ancillary moves that might contribute to some part of the overall trade, but more so that they backfill what is used to make the move up. Looking big picture, moving expiring deals for value in youngsters/picks now AND securing a guy to be the face of the franchise and be the player they build around would be ideal.

They're a fringe playoff team with holes at best right now. I want them to strip it down to the foundations and start over. No one is exempt -- some of them would really hurt to see moved, but I think MacKinnon will be that good and there will be additional opportunities to make picks to fill in what is taken out of the prospect stable now.

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06-12-2013, 03:25 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Is MacKinnon Crosby, or Malkin, or Tavares, or Stamkos? Or is he Nugent-Hopkins?

It would be a real kick in the dick to trade all that for Nugent-Hopkins.
Probably the best forward prospect to come out since Stamkos, even if he's different in how he plays the game. They can build around a Stamkos/Tavares type talent.

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06-12-2013, 03:27 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Is MacKinnon Crosby, or Malkin, or Tavares, or Stamkos? Or is he Nugent-Hopkins?

It would be a real kick in the dick to trade all that for Nugent-Hopkins.
Tavares, Stamkos and RNH have close to the same PPG in their first years. Good argument?

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06-12-2013, 03:29 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Is MacKinnon Crosby, or Malkin, or Tavares, or Stamkos? Or is he Nugent-Hopkins?

It would be a real kick in the dick to trade all that for Nugent-Hopkins.
To be fair, Nugest Hopkins is the youngest kid on that list by at least a couple years.

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06-12-2013, 03:34 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Tavares, Stamkos and RNH have close to the same PPG in their first years. Good argument?
They were more touted prospects than RNH. MacKinnon is more Tavares/Stamkos than RNH in terms of pre-draft status. Stamkos has comfortably been a PPG player since his second season. RNH had a better PPG than either in his first season but the other two both took a big jump in their second year and he took a big jump back.

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06-12-2013, 03:34 PM
  #171
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To be fair, Nugest Hopkins is the youngest kid on that list by at least a couple years.
That's true.

He's just pretty boring to me.

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06-12-2013, 03:36 PM
  #172
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Maybe they drafted poorly.
No they've just been unlucky in WHERE they are drafting... they are never at the very top when there is an elite talent (Mackinnon)

They've actually drafted pretty well...

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06-12-2013, 03:37 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
They were more touted prospects than RNH. MacKinnon is more Tavares/Stamkos than RNH in terms of pre-draft status. Stamkos has comfortably been a PPG player since his second season. RNH had a better PPG than either in his first season but the other two both took a big jump in their second year and he took a big jump back.
They were higher regarded prospects yes, but RNH still has time to develop into one of those kinds of players. It was just a weird choice considering he's only played a single year.

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06-12-2013, 03:37 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Is MacKinnon Crosby, or Malkin, or Tavares, or Stamkos? Or is he Nugent-Hopkins?

It would be a real kick in the dick to trade all that for Nugent-Hopkins.
You think Mackinnon's skill and game are comparable to Nuge?

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06-12-2013, 03:38 PM
  #175
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You think Mackinnon's skill and game are comparable to Nuge?
I have no idea. I have never seen him play a minute of hockey. I would have to insist on a bigger impact if we are moving assets like that for a guy.

I this was 2 years ago would people want to trade a boatload to draft RNH?

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