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Toronto - Colorado (not again!)

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Old
06-12-2013, 02:50 PM
  #51
IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
12 games (really 18) isn't enough because you've decided that his previous 75 games are irrelevant? That's some tricky mathematics you got there.
The previous post stated that Gardiner was good in the playoffs, after being less than stellar previously. If the first 75 games point to him being a capable 2nd pairing guy, then the 12 games where he showed a little more don't make him a proven 1st pairing guy. That's the point, not that Gardiner isn't good.

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Old
06-12-2013, 02:58 PM
  #52
Sundinisagod
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Depends on the value you're talking about. If you're talking about Stastny, he has plenty of value.

His last 3 seasons are all pretty underwhelming compared to his play before that.

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06-12-2013, 03:21 PM
  #53
Earth Rocker
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Why is it always Gardiner in these proposals? Kid is already a good NHL'er and he's 22, why is he being offered to every team by our fans?

and no, Stastny is not worth giving up on Gardiner.

Liles + 2nd for Stastny seems about right to me.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #54
Duffman955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Why is it always Gardiner in these proposals? Kid is already a good NHL'er and he's 22, why is he being offered to every team by our fans?

and no, Stastny is not worth giving up on Gardiner.

Liles + 2nd for Stastny seems about right to me.
Agreed.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:28 PM
  #55
Avs44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Why is it always Gardiner in these proposals? Kid is already a good NHL'er and he's 22, why is he being offered to every team by our fans?

and no, Stastny is not worth giving up on Gardiner.

Liles + 2nd for Stastny seems
about right to me.
And Zanon+2nd for Kessel looks about right to me.



Now we both look stupid.





And no, I'm not saying Stastny=Kessel. Just an example.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
And Zanon+2nd for Kessel looks about right to me.



Now we both look stupid.





And no, I'm not saying Stastny=Kessel. Just an example.
No its just you.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:30 PM
  #57
Avs44
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
No its just you.
I knew someone would post this.



If you think Liles+2nd for Stastny is fair then no, you can join the stupid club.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:31 PM
  #58
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I don't think Toronto want Stastny. He is so underwhelming that he can't help them.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:38 PM
  #59
Duffman955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I knew someone would post this.



If you think Liles+2nd for Stastny is fair then no, you can join the stupid club.
Your offer:

Zanon+2nd for kessel

bottom pair Dman+2nd for ppg player


The other guys offer

Liles+2nd

30 point Dman+2nd for 50point player


Who's offer is closer?

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06-12-2013, 03:39 PM
  #60
Earth Rocker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I knew someone would post this.



If you think Liles+2nd for Stastny is fair then no, you can join the stupid club.
Stastny had 4 good seasons where he looked like a #1C, then 2 okay seasons where he produced like a #2C, then last season............well ya, not so good at all.

3 years of decline is not favorable trend in terms of a players value. Right now, if you can get a PMD in Liles and 2nd rnder in a deep draft for a vastly overpaid and under producing player..you do it. Especially with O'Rielly and Duchene there for the top 2 C spots.

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06-12-2013, 03:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Your offer:

Zanon+2nd for kessel

bottom pair Dman+2nd for ppg player


The other guys offer


Liles+2nd

30 point Dman+2nd for 50point player


Who's offer is closer?
Of course his is. Did you read what I posted earlier? I'm not comparing
Stastny and Kessel.



But if you think there is a chance in hell the Avs would move Stastny for that then what I said earlier stands. You guys keep Liles, we don't want him back.

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06-12-2013, 03:49 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Stastny had 4 good seasons where he looked like a #1C, then 2 okay seasons where he produced like a #2C, then last season............well ya, not so good at all.

3 years of decline is not favorable trend in terms of a players value. Right now, if you can get a PMD in Liles and 2nd rnder in a deep draft for a vastly overpaid and under producing player..you do it. Especially with O'Rielly and Duchene there for the top 2 C spots.
Stastny played a shutdown center role (pretty much the same role as Gabrovski did for Toronto) with 40% offensive zone starts and had a 50 point pace while being strong defensively and good on faceoffs.

How is that "not so good at all"?

It's funny with all these Stastny to Toronto proposals where he is penciled in as the first line center but then we get all the faked concern that he's not good and overpaid and it's almost like Toronto would be doing Colorado a favor by taking him off their hands.

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Old
06-12-2013, 03:51 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Stastny had 4 good seasons where he looked like a #1C, then 2 okay seasons where he produced like a #2C, then last season............well ya, not so good at all.

3 years of decline is not favorable trend in terms of a players value. Right now, if you can get a PMD in
Liles and 2nd rnder in a deep draft for a vastly overpaid and under producing player..you do it. Especially with O'Rielly and Duchene there for the top 2 C spots.
No, we keep Stastny. We don't move him for a 2nd round pick who will most likely never make the NHL and a defensman we don't want back.



Cap is not a problem for the Avs so don't try that argument.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:13 PM
  #64
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It's cute that Avs fans think Stastny has high value, let alone being worth more than Gardiner, for a guy with a cap hit of $6.6 mil, having 1 more year on his contract, and hasn't broken 60 points in 3 years.

Stastny barely has more value than Grabovski.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:17 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Why is it always Gardiner in these proposals? Kid is already a good NHL'er and he's 22, why is he being offered to every team by our fans?

and no, Stastny is not worth giving up on Gardiner.

Liles + 2nd for Stastny seems about right to me.
We pretty much gave him to you a few years ago. Why on earth would we take him back as the main return in a Stastny deal?

It's crazy how many leafs fans want him considering how you destroy him in these proposal threads. We'll just hold onto him. Thanks.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
It's cute that Avs fans think Stastny has high value, let alone being worth more than Gardiner, for a guy with a cap hit of $6.6 mil, having 1 more year on his contract, and hasn't broken 60 points in 3 years.

Stastny barely has more value than Grabovski.
What's cute is how these threads always turn out. Toronto fans have this assumption that if they don't like a deal, the other team should love it. Tor fans say no to the deal. Then some Avs fans come along and say the same. The Toronto fans come back and get insulted. We Avs fans should be thrilled they'd take an overpaid washed up Stastny for their all star caliber prospects. There's some back and forth. Then a Bozak + 2nd offer is thrown in for good measure. Thread closed.

Trades can be bad for both teams. We'll just hold onto Stastny.

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06-12-2013, 04:28 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kb21 View Post
why don't you ask your fellow avs fan. and if you think stasny = gardiner in value
You and your fanbase is a bit confused, but it makes sense considering Leaf fans have never watched an Avs game.

Actually Stastny and Gardiner are very close in value, but I totally understand why Leafs wouldn't want to trade Gardiner at all except for big overpayment. What I do not get is why you guys have to bash Stastny consistently while wanting him at the same time, hypocrisy?

Also Liles+2nd for Paul is one of the biggest joke and worst proposals I have ever seen.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:28 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
What's cute is how these threads always turn out. Toronto fans have this assumption that if they don't like a deal, the other team should love it. Tor fans say no to the deal. Then some Avs fans come along and say the same. The Toronto fans come back and get insulted. We Avs fans should be thrilled they'd take an overpaid washed up Stastny for their all star caliber prospects. There's some back and forth. Then a Bozak + 2nd offer is thrown in for good measure. Thread closed.

Trades can be bad for both teams. We'll just hold onto Stastny.
You guys should really move Stastny IMO. His value isn't going to get any higher. I'm not saying this as a Leafs fan, but neutrally.

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06-12-2013, 04:44 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
You guys should really move Stastny IMO. His value isn't going to get any higher. I'm not saying this as a Leafs fan, but neutrally.
If contract talks stall then well have to dump him as a rental. I'd much rather just sign him to an extension.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #70
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Liles + 2nd is underpayment.. Anything including Gardiner does not make sense for Tor... Any Stastny deal should be based around what Bouwmeester received at the deadline...mid to late first + 2 nd tier prospect or a package of similar value depending on Colorados needs

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:13 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Your offer:

Zanon+2nd for kessel

bottom pair Dman+2nd for ppg player


The other guys offer

Liles+2nd

30 point Dman+2nd for 50point player


Who's offer is closer?
One guy had pizza for dinner and the other guy had a burger, who's **** tastes better?

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:15 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Earth Rocker View Post
Stastny had 4 good seasons where he looked like a #1C, then 2 okay seasons where he produced like a #2C, then last season............well ya, not so good at all.

3 years of decline is not favorable trend in terms of a players value. Right now, if you can get a PMD in Liles and 2nd rnder in a deep draft for a vastly overpaid and under producing player..you do it. Especially with O'Rielly and Duchene there for the top 2 C spots.
At least posts like this help me understand why the Leafs are always so awful at center. Cause no way in hell do you give up Paul Stastny for to put Liles back in Barrie and Elliott's way just for a second round pick, regardless of how overvalued second/third round picks are on here.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:19 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
It's cute that Avs fans think Stastny has high value, let alone being worth more than Gardiner, for a guy with a cap hit of $6.6 mil, having 1 more year on his contract, and hasn't broken 60 points in 3 years.

Stastny barely has more value than Grabovski.
It's cute that leafs fans still haven't learned to read well enough to realize that all Avs fans are saying is that we'd rather have Staz playing for us than the crap they offer us for him, but if they really want Staz the least valuable piece they have that would be worth losing Staz to us is Gardiner. Not that their values are the same or that's what leafs should do. Just that the Avs are better off resigning Staz than trading him for anything less.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:23 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
...no one has asked for the #1 overall. so your analogy is deeply flawed. The question is between Stastny & Seth, or Gardiner, MacArthur & Seth.
I meant Gardiner and MacKinnon there since that was the idea proposed. Adding Gardiner and trading Staz would let us draft MacKinnon instead of Seth. I addressed Seth and Staz v Seth and Gardiner in my next post.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:26 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
It's cute that Avs fans think Stastny has high value, let alone being worth more than Gardiner, for a guy with a cap hit of $6.6 mil, having 1 more year on his contract, and hasn't broken 60 points in 3 years.

Stastny barely has more value than Grabovski.
Yup. I like Stastny as a player, I'd love to him on the Leafs, but there is no way he is worth anywhere near what Avalanche fans think he is.

A player with that cap hit, that close to UFA, that production, is simply not worth a top prospect+.

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