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Old
06-12-2013, 04:10 PM
  #1
drewskiv
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Flames-Flyers

Would this work for both teams.
If Lindholm is taken before the Flames pick at 6th and the Flyers were real high on Nurse would this work for both teams?

Flames trade

6th pick and 28th pick

Flyers trade

Couts and 11th pick

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06-12-2013, 04:12 PM
  #2
BrianBoyle
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I don't think the Flyers would trade Couturier unless a top-notch roster player were coming back.

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06-12-2013, 04:13 PM
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The Flyers would have to be insanely high on Nurse to do this. Even then, I don't think they would considering they will have one of Risto, Pulock, Morrissey, Zadorov available at 11. And Couturier + one of those is better than Nurse + whatever is there at 28.

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06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I don't think the Flyers would trade Couturier unless a top-notch roster player were coming back.
Its gotta be a defenseman too. Whether its a good thing or a bad thing, the Flyers are an impatient organization. They won't be dealing a player on the cusp of breaking out for a draft pick. Not to mention he is by far their best defensive forward.

It was probably said in the other thread but the Streit deal pretty much says that Holmgren isn't dealing Couturier or Schenn for anything short of an elite number 1 defenseman. Sure they would have to add, but it isn't worth giving up 1 of them+ other pieces when they wouldn't be adding what they truly need.

**** you Nashville for matching.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
The Flyers would have to be insanely high on Nurse to do this. Even then, I don't think they would considering they will have one of Risto, Pulock, Morrissey, Zadorov available at 11. And Couturier + one of those is better than Nurse + whatever is there at 28.
The flames have to high of an internal value placed on the 6th pick they wouldn't do this not because value isn't there but because the fans want them to keep it or move up to badly.

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06-12-2013, 04:29 PM
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Na. Value isn't there for Flyers.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:30 PM
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Gio+ 22nd for Couts and 11?

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06-12-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by volley44 View Post
Gio+ 22nd for Couts and 11?
Leaves us without any good Dmen other than Brodie but I'd still do it.

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Old
06-12-2013, 04:53 PM
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I would even do Gio and Glen X for Couts and 11. Draft a center at 6, Domi at 11 Morissey or a dman at 22 with Furcal at 28 if he is still on the board.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:28 PM
  #10
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I would gio + 22nd but not glencross. Get a good young center, another good draft pick which are both great for the rebuild but if we trade gio we have no top 4 D except Brodie. In that case I think the flames could afford to sign two veteran vets this year to fill out the top 4 since we have alot of cap, they can just be stop gap nhl bodies that can play until we develop our own top 4. Guys like hainsey,Ian white,Rozival, etc...

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:37 PM
  #11
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Absolutely not. I wouldn't trade Couturier for Nurse straight up. He'd be more valuable as part of a package for an actual #1.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volley44 View Post
I would even do Gio and Glen X for Couts and 11. Draft a center at 6, Domi at 11 Morissey or a dman at 22 with Furcal at 28 if he is still on the board.
Gio and Glencross for Couturier and 11th overall? No offense, but this is flat out insulting. Your players aren't worth what you think they are.

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06-12-2013, 05:53 PM
  #13
burgess1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewskiv View Post
Would this work for both teams.
If Lindholm is taken before the Flames pick at 6th and the Flyers were real high on Nurse would this work for both teams?

Flames trade

6th pick and 28th pick

Flyers trade

Couts and 11th pick
Replace the 28th with Brodie and I think you get Philly's attention

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:56 PM
  #14
Jray42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewskiv View Post
Would this work for both teams.
If Lindholm is taken before the Flames pick at 6th and the Flyers were real high on Nurse would this work for both teams?

Flames trade

6th pick and 28th pick

Flyers trade

Couts and 11th pick
Nooo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volley44 View Post
Gio+ 22nd for Couts and 11?
Nooooo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volley44 View Post
I would even do Gio and Glen X for Couts and 11. Draft a center at 6, Domi at 11 Morissey or a dman at 22 with Furcal at 28 if he is still on the board.
Noooooooooooooooooooo.

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:13 PM
  #15
HooliganX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewskiv View Post
Would this work for both teams.
If Lindholm is taken before the Flames pick at 6th and the Flyers were real high on Nurse would this work for both teams?

Flames trade

6th pick and 28th pick

Flyers trade

Couts and 11th pick
The 6th is really close to equal Couts. It depends on peoples views or Lindholm and Monahan heck even Nichushkin might be available there.

I guess the only real reason Philly would trade up would be to get Nurse though. Even though he is the 2nd best defenseman in the draft I don't think he is the 6th best player in the draft to use the 6th pick on him.

I don't think the difference between Couts and the 6th is worth seventeen draft spots though even if you prefer the guy at 6 over Couts.

I'm one of the 1st people to think Philly fans overrate Couts but still don't think this makes any sense for them unless they are a lot higher on Nurse then I am.

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:25 PM
  #16
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Nurse is so overrated. We dont need another very mobile stay at home guy with no offensive ability. We already have Coburn for that

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:33 PM
  #17
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Nurse is so overrated. We dont need another very mobile stay at home guy with no offensive ability. We already have Coburn for that
I agree with you while he may be a risker pick I think Ristolainen has better upside and could develop into the player Philly needs.

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:37 PM
  #18
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I wouldn't trade Couts for the 6th overall prob, let alone adding in the other pieces. Some of these offers I'm seeing are insane, Gio and Glenncross for Couts and 11th? What? There is no way. Couts isn't being moved for a draft pick and he isn't being moved for anything less than a young top pairing PMD (with us adding)

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:47 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
I wouldn't trade Couts for the 6th overall prob, let alone adding in the other pieces. Some of these offers I'm seeing are insane, Gio and Glenncross for Couts and 11th? What, there is no way. Couts isn't being moved for a draft pick and he isn't being moved for anything less than a young top pairing PMD (with us adding)
I don't see Gio and Glencross getting Couts and the 11th, but people are seriously undreated both Gio and Glencross.

Glencross has put up a 25+ goal pace for the last 3 years. He's signed at 2.55 million for two more years and does it all. He's got grit, kills penalties, can play on any line, etc...

Giordano is a solid #2 defenceman signed for 3 more years at 4 mil, and he also brings a solid all around game to the table. He's got offence, blocks shots, hits, etc...

People are seriously undervaluing what players like Gio and Glencross, with their perfect contracts, are worth.

If you want an established young PMD for Couts, you aren't getting that, because Couts himself is not established. You're either getting a young guy with top pairing PMD potential or an older PMD (like Gio). Also, nobody moves established and young top pairing guys. Much harder to come by than a potential centre, which is what Couturier is.

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06-12-2013, 07:14 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
I don't see Gio and Glencross getting Couts and the 11th, but people are seriously undreated both Gio and Glencross.

Glencross has put up a 25+ goal pace for the last 3 years. He's signed at 2.55 million for two more years and does it all. He's got grit, kills penalties, can play on any line, etc...

Giordano is a solid #2 defenceman signed for 3 more years at 4 mil, and he also brings a solid all around game to the table. He's got offence, blocks shots, hits, etc...

People are seriously undervaluing what players like Gio and Glencross, with their perfect contracts, are worth.

If you want an established young PMD for Couts, you aren't getting that, because Couts himself is not established. You're either getting a young guy with top pairing PMD potential or an older PMD (like Gio). Also, nobody moves established and young top pairing guys. Much harder to come by than a potential centre, which is what Couturier is.
And Philly has no incentive to trade Couts unless they get what they feel is fair value. Adding a soon to be 30 year old D-man for 20 year old makes no sense. Do you think NYI would trade Strome for Gio? Or Huberdeau? Hamilton? No becuase the potential is untapped and while it may be better this year, the following year it could be disaster. And FWIW, I like Gio...just not in a trade for Couts.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:46 PM
  #21
Philadelphia Ducks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
I don't see Gio and Glencross getting Couts and the 11th, but people are seriously undreated both Gio and Glencross.

Glencross has put up a 25+ goal pace for the last 3 years. He's signed at 2.55 million for two more years and does it all. He's got grit, kills penalties, can play on any line, etc...

Giordano is a solid #2 defenceman signed for 3 more years at 4 mil, and he also brings a solid all around game to the table. He's got offence, blocks shots, hits, etc...

People are seriously undervaluing what players like Gio and Glencross, with their perfect contracts, are worth.

If you want an established young PMD for Couts, you aren't getting that, because Couts himself is not established. You're either getting a young guy with top pairing PMD potential or an older PMD (like Gio). Also, nobody moves established and young top pairing guys. Much harder to come by than a potential centre, which is what Couturier is.
The difference between Coburn/Grossmann/Schenn to Giodarno isn't that great and isn't worth making a big move to obtain, especially at the price of an extra 4 million on the cap. While I do like Glenncross, lets be honest here, Philly isn't going to win the cup in those 2 years he is signed with us and by then he'll be needing a hefty raise. So those 25 extra goals from Glenncross (would be less because we'd be losing Couts goals) and a minimal upgrade from C/G/S isn't Couts. And for next season, we'd have added 5 million to the cap with this trade, when we're already 2 million over cap (Pronger no longer on LTIR), it would be very hard to fit all these players in.

And I agree, we probably wouldn't get a dman we're looking for with just Couts, we'd definitely have to add to it which is what many of us would be willing to do.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:54 PM
  #22
blankall
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
And Philly has no incentive to trade Couts unless they get what they feel is fair value. Adding a soon to be 30 year old D-man for 20 year old makes no sense. Do you think NYI would trade Strome for Gio? Or Huberdeau? Hamilton? No becuase the potential is untapped and while it may be better this year, the following year it could be disaster. And FWIW, I like Gio...just not in a trade for Couts.
You're basically paying for years of prime playing ability.

1) Defencemen usually mature much later and usually play longer.

2) Couturier has not reached his prime and no one knows what his prime will be.

If you want to hold onto him and see how he will develop that's fine. However, if the idea is to win now, then you're going to have to sacrifice potential for proven talent. A 30 year old d-man is essentially equivalent to a 26 year old forward. This is well reflected in FA contracts.

So the question is are you willing to sacrifice what Couturier might be in 4 years for immediate help now. If not, there's no use in trading him. No one is going to give you Shattenkirk. Your options are an equally unproven d-man or a slightly older proven d-man with a lower ceiling.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:59 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
The difference between Coburn/Grossmann/Schenn to Giodarno isn't that great and isn't worth making a big move to obtain, especially at the price of an extra 4 million on the cap. While I do like Glenncross, lets be honest here, Philly isn't going to win the cup in those 2 years he is signed with us and by then he'll be needing a hefty raise. So those 25 extra goals from Glenncross (would be less because we'd be losing Couts goals) and a minimal upgrade from C/G/S isn't Couts. And for next season, we'd have added 5 million to the cap with this trade, when we're already 2 million over cap (Pronger no longer on LTIR), it would be very hard to fit all these players in.

And I agree, we probably wouldn't get a dman we're looking for with just Couts, we'd definitely have to add to it which is what many of us would be willing to do.
You'll have to add something big. #1, young, and proven d-men rarely if ever get traded, and there aren't any on the block right now.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:10 PM
  #24
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The Flyers WILL NOT use Couturier to move up in the draft

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06-12-2013, 08:20 PM
  #25
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You got a #1 D-man? Thats what Philly apparently wants for Couts.

Maybe if the flames still had Jbow and signed him to an extension they would consider packaging Couts for him.

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