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Alex Burmistrov to Detroit

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Old
06-12-2013, 01:49 PM
  #1
Paralyzer008
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Alex Burmistrov to Detroit

Is their a deal to be had here? Burmistrov would look great as a Red Wing.

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06-12-2013, 01:55 PM
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We have kind of done this before, Burmistrov doesn't have a real high value right now. Really think his flop in the AHL killed his value a ton, that offensive upside everyone talks about took a major hit. Jets fans will talk about his potential plus all of his games, but really don't value him above Tatar all that much, all he has is center versatility over him.

2nd round pick and mid-range prospect maybe.

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06-12-2013, 02:03 PM
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No he doesn't have immense value, but we don't really need to move him either. We have tons of room.

Looking for a #4LHD and middle 6 wingers.

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06-12-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
No he doesn't have immense value, but we don't really need to move him either. We have tons of room.

Looking for a #4LHD and middle 6 wingers.
Kindl and Andersson for Burmi?

That's not something that many Wings fans would want to give up and is unlikely to happen but just from value perspective.

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06-12-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
2nd round pick and mid-range prospect maybe.
Not a chance Burmi is moved for that..

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06-12-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
We have kind of done this before, Burmistrov doesn't have a real high value right now. Really think his flop in the AHL killed his value a ton, that offensive upside everyone talks about took a major hit. Jets fans will talk about his potential plus all of his games, but really don't value him above Tatar all that much, all he has is center versatility over him.

2nd round pick and mid-range prospect maybe.
if burmi was performing like he is, but was 5 years older, yes that's probably all he'd be worth.

paul gausted, 30 year old third line center PK specialist returns first roundpick.

pretty sure someone doing the same thing nine years younger is worth at least that.

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06-12-2013, 02:50 PM
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You could probably get him for the #18 pick. He's not under contract and has demanded a trade, his value is kinda hurt. Wings 1st would be fair.

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06-12-2013, 02:59 PM
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Don't want him. He was beyond disappointing when I saw him in the AHL this year & it left a very sour taste in my mouth. We also don't have anywhere to put him right now, our 3Cs ahead of him are all better then him & he's no good to anyone as a 4th line C. I'd also rather give the position he could take to Tatar/Jarnkrok, our own home grown guys.

I don't think he'll ever develop into a #1C or even a very good #2C. He should be a 2/3C who will be great defensively & can give you 40-50 points in a season, kind of like Filppula. Those guys are worth more to your own team then they are on the trade market.

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06-12-2013, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
We have kind of done this before, Burmistrov doesn't have a real high value right now. Really think his flop in the AHL killed his value a ton, that offensive upside everyone talks about took a major hit. Jets fans will talk about his potential plus all of his games, but really don't value him above Tatar all that much, all he has is center versatility over him.

2nd round pick and mid-range prospect maybe.
I personally dont think he is a high offensive upside.

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06-12-2013, 03:22 PM
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Does Burmi have a higher offensive potential? Maybe, but he hasn't shown any hint that he has it yet. He failed to crack 30 points in any of his 3 NHL seasons.

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06-12-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
if burmi was performing like he is, but was 5 years older, yes that's probably all he'd be worth.

paul gausted, 30 year old third line center PK specialist returns first roundpick.

pretty sure someone doing the same thing nine years younger is worth at least that.
People should really stop using the Paul Gaustad deal as a marker of value. It had a lot of unique things going on.

1.) It was a trade deadline deal, so unless we are talking moving Burmi next February it really should have no bearing whatsoever on this discussion

2.) Nashville was really going all in, a misguided attempt to get Suter and Weber both to commit long-term

3.) The Wings (a likely first round opponent which turned out to be the case) were the other team heavily involved on Gaustad, Nashville had to beat their offer in their mind.

But we all know it was a terrible deal, especially in hindsight and with the contract he got afterwards exacerbating the situation.

It would be like me saying Patrick Sharp was had for a third rounder that is all we should give up. You are using an outlier for value there.

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06-12-2013, 03:39 PM
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If Burmistrov wasn't drafted in the top 10 his value would be almost nothing. He has played near 200 games at a .30 points pace. He only scored at a .50 pace in the AHL during the lockout.

This puts his offense at the level of Darren Helm... Sure he has tools and you hope Datsyuk could really be a big influence, but you pay for the way he currently plays and add a little for the future maybe. There is no reason to offer a first or anything of big value, simply put Burmistrov hasn't earned it and his value is at an all-time low.

I understand Winnipeg still wanting a decent return, but he isn't going to net a huge return. While young he now has established question marks and is a reclamation project, you don't pay steep for that at least if your management is smart they don't. Wings fans can hate on Holland but he isn't a dumb guy and he is overly cautious. Overpaying for a reclamation project isn't really his MO.

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06-12-2013, 03:43 PM
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The biggest issue I've seen with Burmi is that he disappears after the first 20-30 games. He starts the season fantastic, but runs out of gas and becomes invisible.

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06-12-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
This puts his offense at the level of Darren Helm...
Sounds about right. We'll take Helm for him then!

[grapes]Good St. Andrews boy![/grapes]

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06-12-2013, 04:09 PM
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I pass a "home of Stanley Cup champion Darren Helm" sign quite a few times a week.

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06-12-2013, 04:15 PM
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Sounds about right. We'll take Helm for him then!

[grapes]Good St. Andrews boy![/grapes]
Even with his back injury, he isn't available for Burmistrov, it was more pointing out Burmi's offensive prowess. Helm is widely considered to have the worst hands on the Wings. We love him as a player, but guy should be a 40 point guy with the chances he generates and cannot finish.

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06-12-2013, 04:16 PM
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A more technically skilled, less foot speed version of Darren Helm is actually pretty fair for what to expect out of Burmistrov at this point.

Heaven forbid that lightbulb ever clicks and he figured out offense at the NHL level. I would be a sad panda.

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06-12-2013, 04:17 PM
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Burmistrov for Helm sounds about fair, IMO. And before DET fans come out of the woodwork about Helm's defensive play...that's the area where Burmi is still excelling; he just has not been able to find his scoring touch.

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06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
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Burmistrov for Helm sounds about fair, IMO. And before DET fans come out of the woodwork about Helm's defensive play...that's the area where Burmi is still excelling; he just has not been able to find his scoring touch.
Detroit won't touch that. Helm's defensive play actually needs more work than most Detroit fans admit. But his speed, forechecking and PK work really are too far apart for a Burmi reclamation project. Also until some of the current Griffins transition he is just so far ahead of anybody else on the speed front. Of course all this depends on his back, Helm's career is actually in jeopardy at this point in time. They can't even diagnose what is wrong, just hoping the summer of rest completely heals it, could see him still being out until December.

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06-12-2013, 04:32 PM
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A more technically skilled, less foot speed version of Darren Helm is actually pretty fair for what to expect out of Burmistrov at this point.

Heaven forbid that lightbulb ever clicks and he figured out offense at the NHL level. I would be a sad panda.
I've seen this movie. it was called Valtteri Filppula. Every season, it was "I think this is going to be Fil's breakout season." Here he is today, demanding 5 million for a season that translates into 30 points on the second line.

I'm not sold on Burmistrov ever being better than Fil, either. The guy has a long way to go before he's even close to the player he was drafted to be.

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06-12-2013, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
if burmi was performing like he is, but was 5 years older, yes that's probably all he'd be worth.

paul gausted, 30 year old third line center PK specialist returns first roundpick.
Poile was dumb to make that trade, but prices at that deadline were high and Poile was desperate to have a good postseason before Weber and Suter came up for new contracts.

As things stand, Gaustad is a very good defensive forward, one of the best faceoff men in the league, a force on the PK, a physical presence, and a veteran leader in the locker room. Burmistrov is a youngster with a bad attitude who didn't score much in the NHL and flopped in the AHL. If you want to compare him to someone, compare him to Nikita Filatov.

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06-12-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I've seen this movie. it was called Valtteri Filppula. Every season, it was "I think this is going to be Fil's breakout season." Here he is today, demanding 5 million for a season that translates into 30 points on the second line.

I'm not sold on Burmistrov ever being better than Fil, either. The guy has a long way to go before he's even close to the player he was drafted to be.
Filppula scored 70 points in 74 games at age 21. Burmistrov managed 11 points in 22 games at the same age. Filppula hasn't broken out, sure, but Burmistrov can't even score adequately at the AHL level.

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06-12-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Burmistrov for Helm sounds about fair, IMO. And before DET fans come out of the woodwork about Helm's defensive play...that's the area where Burmi is still excelling; he just has not been able to find his scoring touch.
I actually just laughed out loud.

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06-12-2013, 05:03 PM
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Poile was dumb to make that trade, but prices at that deadline were high and Poile was desperate to have a good postseason before Weber and Suter came up for new contracts.

As things stand, Gaustad is a very good defensive forward, one of the best faceoff men in the league, a force on the PK, a physical presence, and a veteran leader in the locker room. Burmistrov is a youngster with a bad attitude who didn't score much in the NHL and flopped in the AHL. If you want to compare him to someone, compare him to Nikita Filatov.
Sure. he's Nikita filatov, except he is a beast on the PK, excellent defensively and actually has a dynamite work ethic.

He's actually very similar to Gaustad without the age and veteran leadership. he lays the body, and despite what our local rumor monger says, doesn't have an attitude problem.

I'm aware gaustad was an outlier, but i would think the difference in value of having gaustad and player like gaustad who could still find a lot of offense, and is cost controlled/restricted for 4 more years would probably make up that "outlier" cost.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Filppula scored 70 points in 74 games at age 21. Burmistrov managed 11 points in 22 games at the same age. Filppula hasn't broken out, sure, but Burmistrov can't even score adequately at the AHL level.
True, burmi struggled in the A this year, but he was hardly alone. See if you can find a cached version of the Ice Caps point totals at the end of burmi's tenure there, NOBODY on that team would score.

he generated waaaay more chances (read, great corsi) comparatively but his linemates shot at less then 5%.


Finally... realistically speaking here, 70% of players drafted 8th overall do not become anything more then 3rd liners. 50% of players drafted in that range (6-10) do not become more then third liners. So despite the "giant disappointment" that burmi seems to be, he's actually par for the course at his draft slot.

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I actually just laughed out loud.
thanks for the insight.

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Old
06-12-2013, 05:22 PM
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Helm is one of the best third-line centers on the planet. If you think that an untested, uncertain Burmistrov is worth Helm, then your opinion of the former is very bloated.

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