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Roberto Luongo to... ANYWHERE!

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Old
06-12-2013, 01:07 PM
  #101
Ho Borvat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I agree, he'd be a perfect fit. Would you be willing to trade for him now at a decent payment?
What about

Minnesota
Roberto Luongo
Max Lapierre (rights)
Mason Raymond (rights)

Vancouver
Dany Heatley (Van buys him out)
Cal Clutterbuck
Kyle Brodziak
Zenon Konopka

Keep in mind subtracting Heatley + Backstrom = 13.5 mil in cap (minus 5.3) = 8.2 million in gained cap space.

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06-12-2013, 01:19 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What about

Minnesota
Roberto Luongo
Max Lapierre (rights)
Mason Raymond (rights)

Vancouver
Dany Heatley (Van buys him out)
Cal Clutterbuck
Kyle Brodziak
Zenon Konopka

Keep in mind subtracting Heatley + Backstrom = 13.5 mil in cap (minus 5.3) = 8.2 million in gained cap space.
That looks like a very fair proposal that could help both teams. VCR gets some storm troopers for the bottom lines, and Minn gets an upgrade in net.

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06-12-2013, 01:30 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
That looks like a very fair proposal that could help both teams. VCR gets some storm troopers for the bottom lines, and Minn gets an upgrade in net.
MG wants to get "Bigger" and "Harder to play against"

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Hansen Brodziak Higgins
Weise Konopka Clutterbuck
/Sestito

- Have Schroeder/Jensen for callups.

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06-12-2013, 01:50 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What about

Minnesota
Roberto Luongo
Max Lapierre (rights)
Mason Raymond (rights)

Vancouver
Dany Heatley (Van buys him out)
Cal Clutterbuck
Kyle Brodziak
Zenon Konopka

Keep in mind subtracting Heatley + Backstrom = 13.5 mil in cap (minus 5.3) = 8.2 million in gained cap space.
I really like that proposal. Good for both teams, helps Minnesota out with what they need and Vancouver with what they need.

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06-12-2013, 02:00 PM
  #105
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What about

Minnesota
Roberto Luongo
Max Lapierre (rights)
Mason Raymond (rights)

Vancouver
Dany Heatley (Van buys him out)
Cal Clutterbuck
Kyle Brodziak
Zenon Konopka

Keep in mind subtracting Heatley + Backstrom = 13.5 mil in cap (minus 5.3) = 8.2 million in gained cap space.
Not being a fan of either team, i'd say it's pretty good.

Even if the Wild have no interest in signing Raymond/Lappy, it costs them nothing.

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06-12-2013, 02:03 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by AnthonyJohnson View Post
I bet you've seen this kind of thread before, but at this point in time, Vancouver will do anything to dump his contract. Make your offers for Lou.
To the Canucks a 5 rd and Horcoff to the Oilers Luongo at at 2/3 salary

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06-12-2013, 02:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
The assumption that you will have a better option in 2-3 year is a big one...
It's no assumption it's dealing with the possibility, cause guess what that's what happened in Vancouver. Back when they signed Luongo to that contract it looked great and that commitment didnt seem like a problem because you could always bury the contract in the minors, that hole is closed and there is no way out of it now.

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06-12-2013, 02:19 PM
  #108
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A team that is hardly mentioned is Phoenix, but there is a real possibility that the Coyotes will be moved very soon. The NHL has no lease agreement with Phoenix for the coming season. Glendale has refused to budge from an Arena Management Fee that is too low for the prospective buyers (RSE) to agree to. Negotiations seem to be going nowhere. (For more details, see the "Business of Hockey" forum).
I think the only practical destination at this point would be Quebec City.
I'm sure the new owners of the Quebec team would be willing to spend money to upgrade quickly. They would also presumably be looking for francophone players. If Mike Smith refuses to go to Quebec, Luongo could be a fit. The initial face of the new Nordiques franchise, fluent in French?

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06-12-2013, 02:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
To the Canucks a 5 rd and Horcoff to the Oilers Luongo at at 2/3 salary
I could see MacT actually push for it considering how much he doesn't like Dubnyk [or so it seems]...hell even Dubnyk+Horcoff for Luongo at 3/4rds price might do it

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06-12-2013, 02:38 PM
  #110
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Luongo is like a 3 year cell phone contract. It's awesome for the first 6 months but then you realize how long you have left before you can upgrade.

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06-12-2013, 02:59 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Without meaning to flame folk, I have to point out the irony of the attitude that some of you Nuck fans are striking. You're all quick to totally dismiss Dreger because you don't like what he has to say. At the same time, you all were absolutely convinced you were getting all sorts of goodies from the Isles based on a speculative tweet from McKenzie and four sentences from E. Friedman. Apparently, sources like TSN are not very trustworthy when they shed Luongo's trade value in a negative light. But, of course, it a columnist speculates about VCR getting good return, that is truth.

In reality, all sources should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Dreger is very connected, and very smart. He is also very quick to use statements like "it is believed" (that is, "my friends and I think") to back up speculative postions. And, yeah, he has an obvious pro-Toronto bias. I suspect that is less about his own feelings and more about his desire to pander to his fanbase. But, either way, you do have to treat his reports with skepticism.

I also think that a few of you are making yourselves look a bit biased with statements about Luongo being top five, and playing at that level way into his late thirties. None of that is realistic. And, all of that just totally ignores his occasional collapses in big games.

And, then there is the larger issues here. You guys are swimming against tides if you really believe that contracts don't matter to a huge extend. Spin it anyway you want, but no GM wants a mid thirties guy on a 8 year deal with 5+ million cap hit. Add in the NTC, the playoff meltdowns, and the fact that VCR is up against the cap and is as motivated a seller as there is, and the picture is not pretty. Under the best of circumstances you would have had a hard time getting any real value here and these are not the best circumstances.

What is true is that Luongo remains a high level netminder who would be an upgrade for many teams. I also think he is a classy athelete with a wicked sense of humor, and would be a great guy to market for a team trying to put fans in the seats. So, maybe something will work out for VCR here and a GM will blink.

Personally, I think he clears waivers and gets bought out. But, I'd be lying if I said I was confident in that position. And, if he wound up being snapped up in some kind of deal I would not be totally shocked.

Bottom line, nobody knows what will happen. Too complex a situation, and too many cards to be played. World class athelete with volatile market and all sorts of other stuff happening.

I can say with about 110% confidence that he won't be on the Island though. And, I invite all of your to bump this and flame away if I am wrong.
The reason many Nuck fans have been critical of Dreger is due to his frequently conflicting reports. He adamantly insisted Gillis practically begged Toronto to take him for next to nothing, only to three days backpedal and add pieces that, while not great by any stretch, were a notable improvement from the original report. Now we could chalk this up as a miscalculation on Dreger's part - analysts certainly do not boost a lofty prediction record. However, this was not a singular occurrence, with mentions of us having to take Komisarek and the like earlier.

Normally, I am on board with Dreger. But this instance he appears more out of touch with Vancouver. Of course, I could be wrong.

Luongo's collapses are exaggerated on HF. The only one I would attribute exclusivity on was the first Chicago series. Afterward he has either been solid or one amongst the many that sunk. I would not argue he's a top five goalie, but he definitely maes the top ten cut.

Unsurprisingly, I disagree. Teams were interested, just not at Gillis' asking price. Acquiring Luongo via waivers is doing so for free. Sure, perhaps some teams wait in hopes of strong arming us into buying him out, but they are then not guaranteed of getting him. Lu on the open market is the best goalie available without question. It is not stretch to believe a team will put in a claim just to ensure they have their man.

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06-12-2013, 03:24 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
There are no re-entry waivers anymore so no picking him up at half cap.

The only trades that make sense to me are something like Luongo to the Islanders for Dipietro and a 2nd or some marginal prospect. With the cap dropping and everyone knowing the Canucks have to get rid of him teams are only going to be willing to give up problem contracts of their own. Every team knows the situation the Canucks are in and they have lots of options for getting a good goaltender.
If Luongo is traded for Dipietro, it'll be something like Luongo + 3rd for Dipietro, 1st, Nielsen/Niederreiter

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06-12-2013, 03:37 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
The reason many Nuck fans have been critical of Dreger is due to his frequently conflicting reports. He adamantly insisted Gillis practically begged Toronto to take him for next to nothing, only to three days backpedal and add pieces that, while not great by any stretch, were a notable improvement from the original report. Now we could chalk this up as a miscalculation on Dreger's part - analysts certainly do not boost a lofty prediction record. However, this was not a singular occurrence, with mentions of us having to take Komisarek and the like earlier.

Normally, I am on board with Dreger. But this instance he appears more out of touch with Vancouver. Of course, I could be wrong.
I think you are being too nice about Dreger. Yeah, he has great sources and knows his hockey. But, he is far too quick to post speculation and hearsay. Too many times, he posts a trade scenario with the main backup being "it is believed that."

So, personally I am not at all convinced by his take on the Leafs/Nuck talks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
T
Luongo's collapses are exaggerated on HF. The only one I would attribute exclusivity on was the first Chicago series. Afterward he has either been solid or one amongst the many that sunk. I would not argue he's a top five goalie, but he definitely maes the top ten cut.
Luongo has also been disappointing on the international stage.

Whether or not his collapses are exaggerated, there are few GMs in the league who would see him as clutch or as the guy you want to build a contending team around. He has never demonstrated any capacity to elevate his game when it is all one the line.

He also doesn't "definitely" make the top 10: Lunqvist, Backstrom, Niemi, Quick, Schneider, Rask, Howard, Miller, Rinne, and Anderson would all be easily be in front of him at this point in time. Arguments could be made for a few other guys (like Bobrovsky) that maybe have a bit more to prove.

Now, we can debate who or who does not belong on the top 10 list. Not suprisingly, as a Nuck fan, you'll want to put Luongo up there and I do think a reasoned argument could be made in that direction. but the point is Luongo is far from being a definite.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Unsurprisingly, I disagree. Teams were interested, just not at Gillis' asking price. Acquiring Luongo via waivers is doing so for free. Sure, perhaps some teams wait in hopes of strong arming us into buying him out, but they are then not guaranteed of getting him. Lu on the open market is the best goalie available without question. It is not stretch to believe a team will put in a claim just to ensure they have their man.
It is not a stretch to believe a team will put in a claim (or try to acquire him via trade). It is also far from being a certainty, and not a stretch to believe he'll clear.

And, IMO, the latter is what will likely happen. But, that is ONLY an opinion. I really have no idea how this is all going to play itself out.

The only aspects of this I am completely convinced of is that the Isles will not be involved.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 06-12-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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06-12-2013, 03:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
It's no assumption it's dealing with the possibility, cause guess what that's what happened in Vancouver. Back when they signed Luongo to that contract it looked great and that commitment didnt seem like a problem because you could always bury the contract in the minors, that hole is closed and there is no way out of it now.
1) Schneider developed into a top-flight goaltender. Everything went perfect for him development-wise (and goalies are usually a crap-shoot at best...)

2) How many teams have a Schneider-Caliber prospect? Schneider didn't even dethrone Luongo until age 27 (when he entered his prime).

The plan was never to bury Luongo in the minors either. Its a retirement deal...


Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
To the Canucks a 5 rd and Horcoff to the Oilers Luongo at at 2/3 salary
No thanks. If the Canucks were retaining salary... wouldn't that benefit far outweigh the "negative" of the cap penalty?
- You would have a cap savings of 1.8 million for the 6-7 years he (likely) still plays
- Cap penalty of ~ 1.3 x 2 years, or 2.1 x 3 years

If Vancouver retains salary, you really can't consider his contract a burden... since your getting more benefit (current) than negative (later).

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06-12-2013, 03:49 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I think you are being too nice about Dreger. Yeah, he has great sources and knows his hockey. But, he is far too quick to post speculation and hearsay. Too many times, he posts a trade scenario with the main backup being "it is believed that."

So, personally I am not at all convinced by his take on the Leafs/Nuck talks.



Luongo has also been disappointing on the international stage.

Whether or not his collapses are exaggerated, there are few GMs in the league who would see him as clutch or as the guy you want to build a contending team around. He has never demonstrated any capacity to elevate his game when it is all one the line.

He also doesn't "definitely" make the top 10: Lunqvist, Backstrom, Niemi, Quick, Schneider, Rask, Howard, Miller, Rinne, and Anderson would all be easily be in front of him at this point in time. Arguments could be made for a few other guys (like Bobrovsky) that maybe have a bit more to prove.

Now, we can debate who or who does not belong on the top 10 list. Not suprisingly, as a Nuck fan, you'll want to put Luongo up there and I do think a reasoned argument could be made in that direction. but the point is Luongo is far from being a definite.





It is not a stretch to believe a team will put in a claim (or try to acquire him via trade). It is also far from being a certainty, and not a stretch to believe he'll clear.

And, IMO, the latter is what will likely happen. But, that is ONLY an opinion. I really have no idea how this is all going to play itself out.

The only aspects of this I am completely convinced of is that the Isles will not be involved.
He is better than Backstrom and Miller for sure, maybe Howard.

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06-12-2013, 03:54 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post

He also doesn't "definitely" make the top 10: Lunqvist, Backstrom, Niemi, Quick, Schneider, Rask, Howard, Miller, Rinne, and Anderson would all be easily be in front of him at this point in time. Arguments could be made for a few other guys (like Bobrovsky) that maybe have a bit more to prove.
A lot of Canucks fans feel like presently Luongo is a better goalie than Schneider (with Schneider having the potential to be as good as Luongo (and entering his prime).

Theres also a lot of guys on that list who have 1-2 good seasons under their belt.

Everyones top-10 is subjective... but saying he isn't a top-10 guy is a pretty big stretch.

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06-12-2013, 04:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
A lot of Canucks fans feel like presently Luongo is a better goalie than Schneider (with Schneider having the potential to be as good as Luongo (and entering his prime).

Theres also a lot of guys on that list who have 1-2 good seasons under their belt.

Everyones top-10 is subjective... but saying he isn't a top-10 guy is a pretty big stretch.
That's your OPINION. And, I respect your opinion, but I don't agree.

Either way, the earlier posters statement that "he is definitely top 10" is simply not true. At best, it is a debatable claim.

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06-12-2013, 04:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Without meaning to flame folk, I have to point out the irony of the attitude that some of you Nuck fans are striking. You're all quick to totally dismiss Dreger because you don't like what he has to say. At the same time, you all were absolutely convinced you were getting all sorts of goodies from the Isles based on a speculative tweet from McKenzie and four sentences from E. Friedman. Apparently, sources like TSN are not very trustworthy when they shed Luongo's trade value in a negative light. But, of course, it a columnist speculates about VCR getting good return, that is truth.

In reality, all sources should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Dreger is very connected, and very smart. He is also very quick to use statements like "it is believed" (that is, "my friends and I think") to back up speculative postions. And, yeah, he has an obvious pro-Toronto bias. I suspect that is less about his own feelings and more about his desire to pander to his fanbase. But, either way, you do have to treat his reports with skepticism.

I also think that a few of you are making yourselves look a bit biased with statements about Luongo being top five, and playing at that level way into his late thirties. None of that is realistic. And, all of that just totally ignores his occasional collapses in big games.

And, then there is the larger issues here. You guys are swimming against tides if you really believe that contracts don't matter to a huge extend. Spin it anyway you want, but no GM wants a mid thirties guy on a 8 year deal with 5+ million cap hit. Add in the NTC, the playoff meltdowns, and the fact that VCR is up against the cap and is as motivated a seller as there is, and the picture is not pretty. Under the best of circumstances you would have had a hard time getting any real value here and these are not the best circumstances.

What is true is that Luongo remains a high level netminder who would be an upgrade for many teams. I also think he is a classy athelete with a wicked sense of humor, and would be a great guy to market for a team trying to put fans in the seats. So, maybe something will work out for VCR here and a GM will blink.

Personally, I think he clears waivers and gets bought out. But, I'd be lying if I said I was confident in that position. And, if he wound up being snapped up in some kind of deal I would not be totally shocked.

Bottom line, nobody knows what will happen. Too complex a situation, and too many cards to be played. World class athelete with volatile market and all sorts of other stuff happening.

I can say with about 110% confidence that he won't be on the Island though. And, I invite all of your to bump this and flame away if I am wrong.
We bring up Dredge because he is connected to the rumor,his relation to Nonis is not even a big deal to me. Would guess if the rumors where true they came from another source to give some seperation anyways. But I blame TSN for the way things have got.
Trade deadline viewing is getting higher with each year and nothing really happens. You hear the personalities on radio weeks before talking about how they will need to sit there twiddling their thumbs hoping for trades to talk about. Boss wants to expand it due to numbers and you could say rumors work in the same way. We all saw Ward all excited about breaking a trade that ended out to be wrong.
Its a classic example of how they have turned into a TMZ of sorts and care only about the numbers they bring in viewership wise.
Who is the biggest market in Canada?

Lous value as a goalie is good,his confidence has taken a hit since all this trade talk for sure. His contract sucks but thats what had to be done or we faced a goalie graveyard again. I think the trade becomes more appealing if the Nucks eat some of the salary and I know Gillis said no to that in interviews but really dont see a better option.
To end off,I dont think Toronto needs a goalie,you got one so we are not forcing him on you. What we are saying is Lou is trade worthy.

So Im not wearing a tinfoil hat when it comes to Lou,but I am some what when it comes to the sports networks in Canada. But that reaches into my political views of most boob tube viewing. They dont call it "programming" for nothing..lol

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06-12-2013, 04:32 PM
  #119
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He is better than Backstrom and Miller for sure, maybe Howard.

Miller on a weak Sabres team (meaning he was hung out for high quality shots every night): SAA .915.

Luongo on a stacked VCR team (without even having to face the best opponents on a nightly basis): SAA .907

Tell me now why Luongo is so much better than Miller?


Howard's .923 is a damn bit more impressive too, and on par with Luongo in his better years.


Backstrom, maybe.

Obviously, stats don't tell the whole story and I will fully admit that a good argument could be made that Luongo ranks above these guys. I just don't think he is a sure thing.

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06-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #120
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We bring up Dredge because he is connected to the rumor,his relation to Nonis is not even a big deal to me. Would guess if the rumors where true they came from another source to give some seperation anyways. But I blame TSN for the way things have got.
Trade deadline viewing is getting higher with each year and nothing really happens. You hear the personalities on radio weeks before talking about how they will need to sit there twiddling their thumbs hoping for trades to talk about. Boss wants to expand it due to numbers and you could say rumors work in the same way. We all saw Ward all excited about breaking a trade that ended out to be wrong.
Its a classic example of how they have turned into a TMZ of sorts and care only about the numbers they bring in viewership wise.
Who is the biggest market in Canada?

Lous value as a goalie is good,his confidence has taken a hit since all this trade talk for sure. His contract sucks but thats what had to be done or we faced a goalie graveyard again. I think the trade becomes more appealing if the Nucks eat some of the salary and I know Gillis said no to that in interviews but really dont see a better option.
To end off,I dont think Toronto needs a goalie,you got one so we are not forcing him on you. What we are saying is Lou is trade worthy.

So Im not wearing a tinfoil hat when it comes to Lou,but I am some what when it comes to the sports networks in Canada. But that reaches into my political views of most boob tube viewing. They dont call it "programming" for nothing..lol
I'm not a Toronto fan.

Otherwise, I think this is one of the most dead-on accurate posts I've read in some time.

Nuck fans are always a pleasure to interact with. That has been the case on this board for years.

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06-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #121
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I agree... it doesn't make sense to me to sell low... I personally think people will be surprised that he commands a reasonable return (nothing insane, but he won't be bought out/traded for a late pick etc). I think people are just getting impatient and want it to be over (has anything really changed from last summer?).

I mean if Tampa had to trade one of Lecavalier or Stamkos..
- Vinnies return is a 5th round pick
- Stamkos return is Giroux

Your a better team with Vinnie and Giroux than you are with Stamkos and a 5th...

Kinda the way I have viewed a Schneider trade

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06-12-2013, 04:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
That's your OPINION. And, I respect your opinion, but I don't agree.

Either way, the earlier posters statement that "he is definitely top 10" is simply not true. At best, it is a debatable claim.
I can respect your opinion, but I think the majority of people feel like he is a definite top-10.

I think the real debate is between people who say he is top-5 and people who say he is top-10.

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06-12-2013, 04:38 PM
  #123
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It was a hypothetical hyberbole

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06-12-2013, 04:43 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Miller on a weak Sabres team (meaning he was hung out for high quality shots every night): SAA .915.

Luongo on a stacked VCR team (without even having to face the best opponents on a nightly basis): SAA .907

Tell me now why Luongo is so much better than Miller?


Howard's .923 is a damn bit more impressive too, and on par with Luongo in his better years.


Backstrom, maybe.

Obviously, stats don't tell the whole story and I will fully admit that a good argument could be made that Luongo ranks above these guys. I just don't think he is a sure thing.
Thats based off of a 20 game sample? IIRC aswell, 1 game this season (vs Detroit) had like a took him from .907 to .921 or somethign ridiculous?

* That Detroit game took him from .918 on the season to .907.
The power of a small sample size

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06-12-2013, 05:00 PM
  #125
BowDangles
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I would like to see Luongo end up on Edmonton for next to nothing. Or Edmonton give Vancouver a piece while Vancouver holds onto 1 mil of his salary.

I think Luongo is going to strive when he goes to another team. He has a lot to prove and I can easily see him succeeding.

I like the Horcoff for Luongo deal. Van can either use Horcoff as their third line centre or buy him out.

Edmonton gets their #1 goalie.

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