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Alex Burmistrov to Detroit

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Old
06-12-2013, 06:06 PM
  #26
Aela*
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We have some stats on the Jets board about how he's a better defensive player than Couturier and shut down Malkin better.

He's a good defensive player and still has upside. Don't get how people won't do Edler for Coots but think Burmi is only worth a 2nd and a mid prospect. He also doesn't have attitude problems, thanks. Think we'll keep him and run a great punch with Scheifele Burmi.

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06-12-2013, 06:31 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Helm is one of the best third-line centers on the planet. If you think that an untested, uncertain Burmistrov is worth Helm, then your opinion of the former is very bloated.
Burmisrtove is one of the best third line centers on the planet.



see it's easy to make that statement because it's VERY hard to quantify it. All of it is qualitative evidence. It's an opinion.

most jets value burmistrov as a VERY good third line center. The fact that he's 21 and was drafted for offensive upside means there's a good chance (not a garauntee) that he developes into more then a high end 3c.

Helm on the other hand IS a high end three c (just like burmi) but doesn't seem to be regarded as having any sort of untapped offensive potential.


if you disagree on the opinion of whose a good 3c that's fine, but there's just as much statistical evidence that burmi is as good as 3c as Helm.

I love darren helm. I've watched him lots. Helm and burmi are similar, they both lack a decent shot/finish. Burmi on the other hand has the added benefit of great hands and vision, he just hasn't been able to put all together (nor has the coach put him in the situation too) and convert that into points. His lines constantly outshoot their opponents, he's just constantly stuck with linemates that can't score.

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06-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #28
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06-12-2013, 07:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
No he doesn't have immense value, but we don't really need to move him either. We have tons of room.

Looking for a #4LHD and middle 6 wingers.

Considering Detroit's depth offensively and needing to move people I'd offer Cory Emmerton or Joakim Andersson, Patrick Eaves and a 3rd for Alex Burmistrov. Not sure if that's good trade value or not because this is my first time posting here but what do Jets fans think?

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06-12-2013, 07:22 PM
  #30
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No possible good deal. Wings don't have the asset's we'd be looking for. NYR, STL, PHX, amongst others who are looking for youth + centers could offer much better.

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06-12-2013, 10:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
No possible good deal. Wings don't have the asset's we'd be looking for. NYR, STL, PHX, amongst others who are looking for youth + centers could offer much better.
Jets would also be looking for RW prospects, so a trade involving Frk would work for the Jets, I'd think, although I'm unsure what else may need to be included.

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06-12-2013, 11:43 PM
  #32
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Klingberg, Burmistrov, and a 2013 3rd for Gormley, Gordon's UFA rights, and Moss?

We get a nice winger prospect and 3rd line center, you get a basically nhl ready dman with top 2 potential, 3rd line winger on a nice contract, and a new 3rd line center with great pk and draw.

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06-13-2013, 01:36 AM
  #33
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I think this 'Helm is the best third line center in the game' talk has gone a little too far. There are plenty good third line centers in the game. Just because Babcock said it doesn't make it written in stone fact. And considering he might be lucky to play 40 games a season from here on out, I'd argue he is far from the 'best third line center in the game.' It's tough to be the best at something when you aren't participating.

Love Helm, love his speed, love his PK ability and love his forecheck. Doesn't make him without a doubt, a cut above the rest, 'best third line center' in the game though.

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06-13-2013, 02:56 AM
  #34
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Burmistrov brings nothing to the table right now for Detroit. Heck, Sheahan might be a better player as we speak and Andersson is. If the Wings are going to move on from Filpulla they'll go in a different direction.

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06-13-2013, 05:47 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebendan View Post
Jets would also be looking for RW prospects, so a trade involving Frk would work for the Jets, I'd think, although I'm unsure what else may need to be included.
Except you'd still be adding to Frk, so what would you add? It kind of road blocks from there.

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06-13-2013, 10:14 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Detroit won't touch that. Helm's defensive play actually needs more work than most Detroit fans admit. But his speed, forechecking and PK work really are too far apart for a Burmi reclamation project. Also until some of the current Griffins transition he is just so far ahead of anybody else on the speed front. Of course all this depends on his back, Helm's career is actually in jeopardy at this point in time. They can't even diagnose what is wrong, just hoping the summer of rest completely heals it, could see him still being out until December.
A 21-year-old reclamation project? It is funny from anyone, but from a Wings fan it is particularly so. DET tends to not even play players in the NHL until they hit 22-23.

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06-13-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
A 21-year-old reclamation project? It is funny from anyone, but from a Wings fan it is particularly so. DET tends to not even play players in the NHL until they hit 22-23.
While he's definitely not a "reclamation project", there are large questions starting to follow his career. He looked horrible in the AHL, he's shown no offensive upside and he's a KHL candidate.

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06-13-2013, 11:08 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by penguins2946* View Post
You could probably get him for the #18 pick. He's not under contract and has demanded a trade, his value is kinda hurt. Wings 1st would be fair.
If Burmi was going to leave the Jets, Detroit would be the ideal place for him. He's said a few times that Pavel Datsyuk is his hero and the guy who he models his game after, and I know that they've trained together.

I agree that the 18th pick is about right, although I'd like a little extra thrown in. Maybe a 3 way deal involving Tampa.

I personally want pavelec gone, so I'd like to package pavelec, a 1st round and a second round to get Drouin. Then the other pick and another 2nd plus whatever Lombardi wants for Bernier. Not that it's the Wings' problem, but those are the trades I want to get done. If you guys can be the dance partner, sounds like it's great for everyone

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06-13-2013, 12:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Except you'd still be adding to Frk, so what would you add? It kind of road blocks from there.
At this point really doubtful. Frk was a borderline top 10 talent entering draft year, had some problems that year then put it all back on track. Why in the world would Detroit add? Simple answer they wouldn't here, unless Datsyuk basically came in and said he would make his contract until he was 43 if they traded for Burmi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
A 21-year-old reclamation project? It is funny from anyone, but from a Wings fan it is particularly so. DET tends to not even play players in the NHL until they hit 22-23.
Odd, but that is what he is. He is a huge disappointment spin the 8th pick anyway you want. The guy has the offensive production of a fourth liner. Rumors of attitude problems, although I believe the crowd that says that is just a particular beat writer. He has 200 games of good, not great defensive play. Couldn't score at a great pace in the AHL, where his numbers offensively were below Andersson and Ferraro, were the same as first year pro Sheahan (just as good defensively) and Glendening (remember that name, also defensively sound) but all those guys are good two-way centers.

That would be the other thing the Wings aren't starving for a defensively gifted forward. They have them, don't need to pay a premium for one. Their only interest in Burmistrov would be to find the offense he might have and the belief that Datsyuk would be a fabulous mentor for him.

Detroit not playing their kids until they are ready is part of why they don't have reclamation projects in very young guys. They don't let them sink or swim and put whatever angle you want on Burmistrov's defense, but for a player with his hands and skills, the offensive production simply has to be better. He is fading, his confidence is getting worse, this year he would average out to 19 or 20 points, that is fourth line center stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
If Burmi was going to leave the Jets, Detroit would be the ideal place for him. He's said a few times that Pavel Datsyuk is his hero and the guy who he models his game after, and I know that they've trained together.

I agree that the 18th pick is about right, although I'd like a little extra thrown in. Maybe a 3 way deal involving Tampa.

I personally want pavelec gone, so I'd like to package pavelec, a 1st round and a second round to get Drouin. Then the other pick and another 2nd plus whatever Lombardi wants for Bernier. Not that it's the Wings' problem, but those are the trades I want to get done. If you guys can be the dance partner, sounds like it's great for everyone
Don't see either Detroit or Tampa being interested. Might get LA but you don't have one of the important assets you want. Goalie trade value is almost always poor, that doesn't get you close to Drouin.

Detroit won't flip their first for Burmistrov. I am just praying they don't include it in a Yandle package. Good thing is they have been very reluctant to move it all season. They wouldn't trade it for JayBo and as much as people like to bag on him, that speaks to the value they have on it, especially in terms of Burmistrov and they certainly wouldn't add anything to it except maybe all of Fournier, Nestrasil, Coetzee and whatever other contracts they wanted to purge that will never make the club. That could be the favor asked on an over-payment by Detroit.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 06-13-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
06-13-2013, 12:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
At this point really doubtful. Frk was a borderline top 10 talent entering draft year, had some problems that year then put it all back on track. Why in the world would Detroit add? Simple answer they wouldn't here, unless Datsyuk basically came in and said he would make his contract until he was 43 if they traded for Burmi.



Odd, but that is what he is. He is a huge disappointment spin the 8th pick anyway you want. The guy has the offensive production of a fourth liner. Rumors of attitude problems, although I believe the crowd that says that is just a particular beat writer. He has 200 games of good, not great defensive play. Couldn't score at a great pace in the AHL, where his numbers offensively were below Andersson and Ferraro, were the same as first year pro Sheahan (just as good defensively) and Glendening (remember that name, also defensively sound) but all those guys are good two-way centers.

That would be the other thing the Wings aren't starving for a defensively gifted forward. They have them, don't need to pay a premium for one. Their only interest in Burmistrov would be to find the offense he might have and the belief that Datsyuk would be a fabulous mentor for him.

Detroit not playing their kids until they are ready is part of why they don't have reclamation projects in very young guys. They don't let them sink or swim and put whatever angle you want on Burmistrov's defense, but for a player with his hands and skills, the offensive production simply has to be better. He is fading, his confidence is getting worse, this year he would average out to 19 or 20 points, that is fourth line center stuff.
If it was his first year in the NHL as a 21 yearold, and he showed this would it be THAT dissapointing? It was also the first year of regression (had increased his production through the first two).


You wouldn't call the offensive ceiling of a player not in the NHL at 21 a known
so why, just because the player IS in the nhl at 21, is it all of a sudden a known?
If a 21 yearolds offensive production of 30 points is "known" as 30 nhl points, then a 21 yearold in the AHL's offensive production in the NHL is "known" at 0.

it's a stupid double standard. Burmi has been crucified for being able to play a defensive game 90% of players drafted (hell, 90% of players drafted in the frist round) can't play at his age (one good enough to get him in a pro lineup, while being the best PK'ing forward on the team [corsirel]).

I get that i'm not going to change anyones mind. I get that people here do have raging hard on's for questionmarks, but LOGICALLY, can someone please make the case for Burmi's offensive ceiling being "known" at 21.


my point: compare the number of players that have achieved what these prospects of detroit have, at the same age, in the AHL/OHL/etc, and see how many made the show as top 6 players.

Compare that number with the number of NHL players that made the show and performed the same way as burmistrov has at his age and see how many became top 6 players.


I garauntee you the burmistrov comparable has a MUCH higher success rate.


either everyone is convinced that burmistrov is the worst-case-scenario-outlier (highly unlikely) or there just actually oblivious to historical/statistical trends.


As for detroit having defensively capable centers and not needing him, completely valid and fair point to argue.

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:08 PM
  #41
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I don't think we should trade him. No reason too.

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