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Habs - Tampa (Lecavalier buyout)

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Old
06-11-2013, 07:18 PM
  #101
BigDaddyLurch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
it is easy when it isn't your money

I doubt that Molson would do that.
That's the great thing about being a cash cow (TO, NYR, MTL); a playoff round or two covers the expense, especially when you get to make your team better in the process (hence getting those extra playoff rounds )

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06-11-2013, 10:35 PM
  #102
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This has to be the worst offer in the history of HF boards, right?

Right?

Vinny has a ****** contract, sure, but he's still very productive and he's a leader in the locker room, in the community, and on the ice. I would love if he had a better contract, but even with that ****** contract he's one of the best #2 centers in the league. Trading him makes us a worse team. Trading him and our #3 (Drouin) makes us a worse team now and in the future.

So give it up.

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Old
06-11-2013, 11:27 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
This has to be the worst offer in the history of HF boards, right?

Right?

Vinny has a ****** contract, sure, but he's still very productive and he's a leader in the locker room, in the community, and on the ice. I would love if he had a better contract, but even with that ****** contract he's one of the best #2 centers in the league. Trading him makes us a worse team. Trading him and our #3 (Drouin) makes us a worse team now and in the future.

So give it up.
It seems that OP does not watch much of Lecavalier. He's treating his contract like Dipietro or Gomez's contract when it is far from it.

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06-12-2013, 08:19 AM
  #104
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OK, I know I should just give up trying to make people understand the validity of a trade like this, but I'm stubborn, so here goes:

Simplified Scenario:

MTL & Tampa do the trade...

MTL buys out Vinny...

Vinny can now resign with Tampa (lets say 4 years, 15 mill; 3,75 mill cap hit)...

Tampa now has cap space (extra 4 mill for the 4 years of Vinny's new contract and extra 7,73 mill for the following 3 years) & cash (extra 30 mill they were going to pay to Vinny on old contract) to sign more help to make team contender (Iggy, Horton, defensive help, whatever they want to use it on) plus they still have Vinny...

For facilitating this paper transaction and saving Tampa 30 million, MTL gets #3 this year...


The same type of deal can help out the Islanders with DiPietro.

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06-12-2013, 08:23 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
OK, I know I should just give up trying to make people understand the validity of a trade like this, but I'm stubborn, so here goes:

Simplified Scenario:

MTL & Tampa do the trade...

MTL buys out Vinny...

Vinny can now resign with Tampa (lets say 4 years, 15 mill; 3,75 mill cap hit)...

Tampa now has cap space (extra 4 mill for the 4 years of Vinny's new contract and extra 7,73 mill for the following 3 years) & cash (extra 30 mill they were going to pay to Vinny on old contract) to sign more help to make team contender (Iggy, Horton, defensive help, whatever they want to use it on) plus they still have Vinny...

For facilitating this paper transaction and saving Tampa 30 million, MTL gets #3 this year...


The same type of deal can help out the Islanders with DiPietro.

Give it up.. We have an owner willing to spend money so there's no point a giving up the third pick

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06-12-2013, 08:33 AM
  #106
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Any definitive word on whether a team can compliance buyout a player that they trade for or sign subsequent to the signing of the CBA. Could have sworn I read that a player had to be under contract to your team as of the day the CBA was signed for him to be eligible for a compliance buyout.

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06-12-2013, 08:46 AM
  #107
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Uh, so we trade the captain of the team, for whom the love extends outside of the hockey fanbase and into the Tampa community, as well as toss in a likely future franchise at the #3 pick in exchange for relative spare parts? Yea, **** that noise.

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06-12-2013, 09:06 AM
  #108
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OP still hasn't stated which "much better players" the Lightning could go out and get with the extra money saved. No offense to Tampa, but they aren't considered contenders after last season, so they'd have to over-bid by a decent margin on the high dollar free agents. What would it cost to get Ribiero to play for them? 24 million for 4 years? Is a guy like Ribiero any better than Vinny? Not to mention Vinny's value to the team and club as a life long Lightning, and current team captain, how much money would they really be saving by finding these "much better players"?


Last edited by Parayko Physics: 06-12-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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06-12-2013, 09:39 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HANDZ 57 View Post
OP still hasn't stated which "much better players" the Lightning could go out and get with the extra money saved.
Actually I did, but just to bring it up again, here goes:

...they could resign Vinny and nab an Iggy, Ryder, Morrow, Dupuis, Stalberg, Clowe, Bickell, Filppula, Jagr, Boyes, etc. or add a mill or so and add a Horton, Riberio, Clarkson, Streit, etc...and still save money in the long run...that, and only that, is why I believe deals like this can be advantageous to both sides.

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06-12-2013, 09:47 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Actually I did, but just to bring it up again, here goes:

...they could resign Vinny and nab an Iggy, Ryder, Morrow, Dupuis, Stalberg, Clowe, Bickell, Filppula, Jagr, Boyes, etc. or add a mill or so and add a Horton, Riberio, Clarkson, Streit, etc...and still save money in the long run...that, and only that, is why I believe deals like this can be advantageous to both sides.
Would you trade any of those players for a third overall pick? NO. Thats why tampa doesnt do it.

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06-12-2013, 09:52 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Actually I did, but just to bring it up again, here goes:

...they could resign Vinny and nab an Iggy, Ryder, Morrow, Dupuis, Stalberg, Clowe, Bickell, Filppula, Jagr, Boyes, etc. or add a mill or so and add a Horton, Riberio, Clarkson, Streit, etc...and still save money in the long run...that, and only that, is why I believe deals like this can be advantageous to both sides.
And it would still be more cost effective and better asset management to continue paying Vinny and play the asset we'd take at three. Naming guys on their last legs or a player who is about to be grossly overpaid (Bickell) and suggesting the league is just going to sit by and allow the Lightning and Habs to game the system in a cap circumventing trade and sign is neither realistic nor an upgrade over keeping Vinny and the third.

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06-12-2013, 10:07 AM
  #112
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Okay, I missed that part after the far fetched scenario of Tampa reacquiring him. So they get Vinny back at 3.75 and then spend good coin on players that are mostly at the end of their career? I don't see a realistic scenario where Vinny at 3.5 plus any 2 of those guys you mentioned would be better than the next three years of Vinny and Drouin at 11 million.

Are any of those free agents going to put them over the top and make them a cup contender? Whoever they get at #3 is going to be cost controlled for a while and Vinny's big pay day runs out after year 4 so I really don't see it as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. As another poster mentioned, it seems like you are valuing Vinny as a complete dead weight contract like DP's when he still does have value to Tampa.

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06-12-2013, 10:08 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayheykid View Post
And it would still be more cost effective and better asset management to continue paying Vinny and play the asset we'd take at three. Naming guys on their last legs or a player who is about to be grossly overpaid (Bickell) and suggesting the league is just going to sit by and allow the Lightning and Habs to game the system in a cap circumventing trade and sign is neither realistic nor an upgrade over keeping Vinny and the third.
I was slow in my response, but had I seen this I would have just stopped typing and gave this a "+1" instead.

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Old
06-12-2013, 10:21 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Actually I did, but just to bring it up again, here goes:

...they could resign Vinny and nab an Iggy, Ryder, Morrow, Dupuis, Stalberg, Clowe, Bickell, Filppula, Jagr, Boyes, etc. or add a mill or so and add a Horton, Riberio, Clarkson, Streit, etc...and still save money in the long run...that, and only that, is why I believe deals like this can be advantageous to both sides.
And you haven't answered Psycho Papa Joe's question yet.

Quote:
Any definitive word on whether a team can compliance buyout a player that they trade for or sign subsequent to the signing of the CBA. Could have sworn I read that a player had to be under contract to your team as of the day the CBA was signed for him to be eligible for a compliance buyout.
This entire thing might not even be allowed under the new CBA. Even if it is, it could end up violating "the spirit" of the CBA and cost somebody future draft picks.

Then there is still the fact that even if the Lightning could re-sign Vinny, it's still a bad deal. They don't need Montreal's help with team finances. They don't need a bunch of dead weight in place of the third rounder.

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06-12-2013, 10:32 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Hulk View Post
Would you trade any of those players for a third overall pick? NO.
You're right, I wouldn't trade the #3 pick this year for any of those players if that's all I was getting, which it's absolutely not...Tampa also gets millions in cap relief, albeit mostly down the road if they add another player with the savings right away, and also saves millions in salary, both now and down the road...and they still get #25 this year (or #21 if they did the trade with Toronto, which also works)...the point I'm trying to make is that a trade like this can have merit; haggling on price is just fine-tuning it.

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06-12-2013, 10:39 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
This entire thing might not even be allowed under the new CBA. Even if it is, it could end up violating "the spirit" of the CBA and cost somebody future draft picks.
I've looked all over and haven't found anything to say it can't be done, but if it is found to be in violation, then we forget about this and just enjoy the memory of a good debate

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06-12-2013, 10:44 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
The DiPietro talk got me thinking; why not eat a big buyout for assets (for the "have" teams)...so why not:

To Tampa Bay Lightning:

Kaberle + 2013 #25 pick + Desharnais (replacement centre...or they could take our 2013 #55...or LeBlanc...or a combo of...you get the drift )


To Montreal:

Lecavalier + 2013 #3 pick + 2013 #33 pick



Habs take a big hit on the buyout, but gain the ability to draft Barkov.
Give up the third and 33rd, to lose Lecavalier? No thanks. We'll just draft and buy him out ourselves if necessary.

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06-12-2013, 11:14 AM
  #118
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this is still going on

there's NO chance any team in the league would send a top 5 pick or even likely a top 15 pick strapped to it to get rid of an unsavoury contract.

he wasn't even bad this year in games i watched, wasn't the vinny of 04 playoff run but come on, sure he's over paid but i doubt they buy him out unless his play declines even further.

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06-12-2013, 01:34 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
I've looked all over and haven't found anything to say it can't be done, but if it is found to be in violation, then we forget about this and just enjoy the memory of a good debate
We have very different definitions of what classifies a "good debate".

And hell, even if Tampa loses money on Vinny's deal, Montreal is paying us anyway with the revenue sharing.

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06-12-2013, 01:38 PM
  #120
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Savings on the buyout or not, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen.

Tampa isn't trading away two top 40 picks (including 3rd overall LOL) to save future money.

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06-12-2013, 07:44 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
The DiPietro talk got me thinking; why not eat a big buyout for assets (for the "have" teams)...so why not:

To Tampa Bay Lightning:

Kaberle + 2013 #25 pick + Desharnais (replacement centre...or they could take our 2013 #55...or LeBlanc...or a combo of...you get the drift )


To Montreal:

Lecavalier + 2013 #3 pick + 2013 #33 pick



Habs take a big hit on the buyout, but gain the ability to draft Barkov.
That sounds to one-sided. How about Price/Deshasnais to Vancouver, Luongo to Tampa, Lecavalier/Schneider to Montreal? Contracts all stay close.

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06-12-2013, 09:26 PM
  #122
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That sounds to one-sided. How about Price/Deshasnais to Vancouver, Luongo to Tampa, Lecavalier/Schneider to Montreal? Contracts all stay close.


^ That goes for OP too.


Last edited by HoseEmAllAround: 06-12-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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06-12-2013, 09:34 PM
  #123
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Lol so happy this trade won't happen. Looking forward to seeing Drouin play next to Stamkos for years. Vinny will retire a bolt too. In your dreams Habs fans!

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06-12-2013, 09:53 PM
  #124
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I wonder how good Lecavalier will be @ 38, earning 8.5M.

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06-12-2013, 09:56 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by KILLger View Post
I wonder how good Lecavalier will be @ 38, earning 8.5M.
Considering he's set to make 1.5 million at 38, I guess we'll never know.


Last edited by sayheykid: 06-12-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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