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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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06-12-2013, 07:17 PM
  #101
HABsurde
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Petan has as high of an offensive potential as any other player in this draft. If you pass on that at 25 to draft a third liner... You're mad.

Bergevin never said he'll make the team bigger... He said he wanted more character... Petan is all about character.

Petan-Domi-Gallagher line would be about ten times harder to play against than a Mantha-Gauthier-Pacioretty line.
Harder to play maybe, but they would still get pushed around easily by a Mantha-Gauthier-Pacioretty line.... don't get me wrong, i like the hustle of a player like Gallagher, but he gets it at least once a game, i doubt he can sustain that for 10 years or more.....

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06-12-2013, 07:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
While I agree that you have to pick BPA, it's also right that you can rarely trade for big skilled wingers. It'll generally take two smaller skilled guys to trade for a big skilled winger who may get drafted around the same time.

It's also been said that we already have Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Eller as four out of our future top 6. We need two guys to pan out. We already have:

Collberg
Vail
Hudon
Kristo

for those roles and they're doing well. Maybe one becomes a top 6 forward? So we can risk taking guys with size this year. If we take:

Mantha - a 50 goal scorer who's 6'5" no matter how you look at it. Who were the last 50 goal scorers with size who failed?
Hartman - looks like a Hartnell clone to me
McCarron - has great potential

and only one turns out, that's all we need. The rest of the guys provide third line depth. Whether those three guys will be around is irrelevant; they are examples. You have to be willing to take calculated risks. Given the current state of our forward prospects, this year we can take the risk of drafting top six potentials with size and skill. You hedge your bets and it's about time that people submitted huge offers to us for our big players rather than the other way around. Nobody will offer anything for our Desharnais's.

We don't need homeruns on our four picks in the first two rounds this year. We've had successful drafts the last few years. What we do need is players with both size and skill. And this is the only place you find them for a reasonable value.
I really, REALLY doubt, Vail will EVER be in our top 6, if he ever is... we have some problems ahead....

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06-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #103
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Gauthier would shut them down easily.

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06-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
As you said he's very physically mature for his age, how much more can he develop as a player? I'm not saying he won't be a contributor, I'm just not sold on his potential. Don't see the top-6 upside. I'd expect him to be a bottom-6 role player that brings a lot of important elements to a team. I've decided on Boyd Gordon as a comparable. Valuable player but not a top-20 pick based on my own drafting philosophies.
Bo Horvat will end up being as valued as guys like Jordan Staal and Patrice Bergeron..similar styles. Trust me.

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06-12-2013, 07:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I can see the comparisons but I don't think Horvat will ever be as physical or the hitter that Richards is.

I certainly think he'll be gone by say 17 at the latest, but as always in the draft, it's not impossible that he slips lower. And I'd take him at 25 in a second, of course.
That might actually be a good thing. Richards has dropped off ALOT over the past few seasons, and while much of that may be attributable to his supposedly poor off ice habits, alot of that could be the wear and tear of his physical brand of hockey. Even in his prime, the best part of Richards' game wasn't his physicality, it was his completeness in every other facet of the game. The hitting was just an added bonus (IMO).

If you can snag a guy who has Richards' compete level, hockey IQ, tenacity and hands...maybe the fact that he doesn't play a firebrand style of hockey is actually a positive when everything is said and done.

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06-12-2013, 07:41 PM
  #106
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A lot of people like Dauphin, but he sounds like his upside is as a hard working 3rd line two way kind of guy, not the next coming of Bergeron. This is just from reading about the guy so don't go nuts in telling me off, just tell me why he is better than that if you feel that way.

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06-12-2013, 07:42 PM
  #107
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Dauphin has good hands and a terrific hockey brain. Crafty playmaker. That's why he can be a top 6 guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Bergevin never said he'll make the team bigger...
Actually he did say it in the year end PC when talking about draft strategy.

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06-12-2013, 07:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Count of DannyKristo View Post
I'd be willing to take the chance on Petan with one of our first three picks. If we go balls to the wall with 3 forwards at 25, 34 and 36... if Petan is one of them the others could be two of McCarron, Poirier and Bailey, for example. I wouldn't hate this:

25 - McCarron
34 - Petan
36 - Poirier/Bailey
Way too early to take McCarron...not fast or aggressive enough...will be a 3rd or 4th liner at best.

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06-12-2013, 07:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
A lot of people like Dauphin, but he sounds like his upside is as a hard working 3rd line two way kind of guy, not the next coming of Bergeron. This is just from reading about the guy so don't go nuts in telling me off, just tell me why he is better than that if you feel that way.
You haven't done your due diligence regarding Dauphin...great passer, crafty, intelligent and instinctive as a player. He is similar to Bergeron.

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06-12-2013, 07:51 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
Our greatest need is DEVELOPING the size and toughness we have in the system to make them viable NHL options.
I don't believe you can develop toughness in a player. He either has it or he doesn't.
There are plenty examples of soft players who own a big frame.

Let's face it, we didn't draft many players who have grit as part of their MO. You need to take several, to see the few develop and make it to the NHL.

That doesn't mean a gritty player can't skate or have other skills. There are players that provide an all around game, are good skaters, have decent size, can score, will go where traffic is and not be afraid to check. At the appropriate time in the draft, these players can be had on their own merit and not at the expense of a vastly superior skilled player.

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06-12-2013, 07:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
You haven't done your due diligence regarding Dauphin...great passer, crafty, intelligent and instinctive as a player. He is similar to Bergeron.
You are correct , never claimed to, my knowledge is from THN, other pre-draft write-ups that I have read and you guys.

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06-12-2013, 07:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
You have to understand how London used Horvat. Griffith and Domi got the pure offensive roles on that team.

Horvat played the hard minutes, going up against the other team's best line.
That is such valuable info. for those of us who didn't get the opportunity to follow these players up close. I wish player guides would pay more attention to this, since it can help cast greater light on a player's abilities.

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06-12-2013, 08:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
I don't believe you can develop toughness in a player. He either has it or he doesn't.
There are plenty examples of soft players who own a big frame.

Let's face it, we didn't draft many players who have grit as their MO. You need to take several, to see the few develop and make it to the NHL.

That doesn't mean a gritty player can't skate or have other skills. There are players that provide an all around game, are good skaters, have decent size, can score, will go where traffic is and not be afraid to check. At the appropriate time in the draft, these players can be had on their own merit and not at the expense of a vastly superior skilled player.
Yes, and this draft seems to have players like that who will be available when we pick, especially at D. Interesting that the talk on these pages lately is all about forwards given that there should be several big, physical D men with good speed around when we have our first 3 picks. Quite frankly if TT thinks a couple of them can make it to the NHL our D could be transformed in 3-4 years into a big, mean, physical blueline complemented by good PMD guys like PK ( okay great ), Diaz and Nathan B. We would have to spend 2-3 picks ( hopefully if we use 3 the 3rd guy would be the last 2nd or 3rd rounder ). There are interesting forwards there for sure though, just saying this seems to be the year for big D guys who can skate and rumble.


Last edited by yianik: 06-12-2013 at 08:06 PM. Reason: forgot word
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06-12-2013, 08:34 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
Regarding the Habs lack of size and grit and whether we should draft for it:

It seems that the smaller guys in our system just happen to be the best players. We have drafted bigger players, yet guys like Gallagher and DD end up making the team ahead of them. Our greatest need is DEVELOPING the size and toughness we have in the system to make them viable NHL options.

This could bring into question an even greater philosophical question of how we play the game at the NHL level. Our identity is a skilled, speedy team with a strong transition game and good special teams. Players with size and toughness simply have a more difficult time breaking in since they're typically not as naturally talented in these aspects as smaller players.

Ideally, we would have a mix of both, but practically its a very difficult balance to find. We simply can't get bigger and tougher without sacrificing our speed game. And that may not be a bad thing.
This is why I suggested looking through the Boston lineup they cherry-picked the players missing, from the best at the position in the NHL. Another big deal for Boston is other than the two Leaf picks 1st's (Seguin & Hamilton) they have no 1st picks of their choosing playing for them. Good front office Staff.


Last edited by S Bah: 06-12-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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06-12-2013, 08:45 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Harder to play maybe, but they would still get pushed around easily by a Mantha-Gauthier-Pacioretty line.... don't get me wrong, i like the hustle of a player like Gallagher, but he gets it at least once a game, i doubt he can sustain that for 10 years or more.....
Probable, but I doubt it, because those guys don't push players around. The point was to show that he was no softie... I doubt we would have DD and Gio on our roster when Petan is ready. Gallagher would be close to 24....

Drafting for a need is dumb... I can probably garantee you that if Petan is there at 25, he'll be BPA by a wide margin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Dauphin has good hands and a terrific hockey brain. Crafty playmaker. That's why he can be a top 6 guy.



Actually he did say it in the year end PC when talking about draft strategy.
Pretty sure he never mentionned ''size''. When asked he said they needed more character.

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06-12-2013, 08:49 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Way too early to take McCarron...not fast or aggressive enough...will be a 3rd or 4th liner at best.
This is pretty much wrong... You can't just come here and say things about a player you haven't watched. McCarron is pretty fast for a big kid who doesn't know his body yet.

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06-12-2013, 08:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Way too early to take McCarron...not fast or aggressive enough...will be a 3rd or 4th liner at best.
Funny Grant said he had incredible potential

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06-12-2013, 08:52 PM
  #118
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Like I've previously mentioned, at 25, I'm all for Petan. Sure if we do draft him, we have three second rounders, where we can fill out with size.

The way I see it, if we weren't scared to ice a lineup with Desharnais as our one C, what does it matter that we draft a guy that can be a hundred times better than David.

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06-12-2013, 08:58 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
This is pretty much wrong... You can't just come here and say things about a player you haven't watched. McCarron is pretty fast for a big kid who doesn't know his body yet.
I saw McCarron play several times. He played against Canada in the U-18 tourney.
He was big, slow, not particularly aggressive, but had pretty good hands. Still not worth picking among our 3 first picks. You must have a poor understanding...of the term FAST...McCarron is the anti-thesis of fast...the term is slow...we should let another team be enamored by his size.

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06-12-2013, 09:02 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post

Pretty sure he never mentionned ''size''. When asked he said they needed more character.
8:35 mark.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...sole?id=248356

Hickey: Will you look for more size in the draft?

Bergevin: For sure...easier said than done...but we'll be looking at that.

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06-12-2013, 09:02 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Funny Grant said he had incredible potential

Hey boys...Grant offers an opinion...nothing more...if he thinks McCarron has incredible potential than I feel Grant's opinion and analysis is overrated.

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06-12-2013, 09:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Hey boys...Grant offers an opinion...nothing more...if he thinks McCarron has incredible potential than I feel Grant's opinion and analysis is overrated.
Call me when Tsn asks you to do scout reports on the top 100 prospects.. Grant isn't always right but he is more credible than some guy who came out of nowhere to post a bunch of condescending posts littered with inaccuracies.

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06-12-2013, 09:14 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Hey boys...Grant offers an opinion...nothing more...if he thinks McCarron has incredible potential than I feel Grant's opinion and analysis is overrated.
He's followed him all year, and also has heard other scouts rave about him. You've seen a couple U-18 games. Have you considered the fact it was on international ice too? For McCarron it will only be about getting to the front of the net and cycling the puck down low.

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06-12-2013, 09:17 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
Hey boys...Grant offers an opinion...nothing more...if he thinks McCarron has incredible potential than I feel Grant's opinion and analysis is overrated.


Oh Sorry that was mean't for Grant, who ya know has a boat load of experience as a scout, and would know talent when he sees it.

I'll take his "overrated" opinion any day of the week, people don't understand how fortunate we are to have someone of Grant's caliber to post here voluntarily.

+1 to Grant in my books

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06-12-2013, 09:19 PM
  #125
phillytennis
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Call me when Tsn asks you to do scout reports on the top 100 prospects.. Grant isn't always right but he is more credible than some guy who came out of nowhere to post a bunch of condescending posts littered with inaccuracies.
Ducky...you seem a little over-sensitive...I don't need your approval to voice my opinion...now go back and re-read Grant's scouting reports!!!!

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