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Sabres Attempting To Acquire The First Overall Pick

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Old
06-12-2013, 09:36 PM
  #226
hizzoner
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Exactly--Kane AND Toews.....but no way any of the top 3 this year can do what those TWO are doing along with a bunch of other high picks....

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06-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #227
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I don't think it will happen... and Myers sucks and it overpaid.

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06-12-2013, 09:44 PM
  #228
tucker3434
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
Exactly--Kane AND Toews.....but no way any of the top 3 this year can do what those TWO are doing along with a bunch of other high picks....
Okay, if your point is that the Sabres shouldn't trade for it, I agree. The cost is unreasonable for them.

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06-12-2013, 09:54 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
I don't think it will happen... and Myers sucks and it overpaid.
You're adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. Players that's "suck" don't win the Calder trophy. Even though he hasn't shown that dominance since his sophomore year, he certainly doesn't "suck", he just hasn't played up to his capabilities this past season, which happened to be detailed by injuries. So much "what have you done for me lately?", it's absurd.

If this all ends up happening (unlikely), I would hope that Darcy doesn't trade a potential franchise D-man++ for a potential franchise centerman. That's just opening up one whole to plug another, and I'm more confident in our future center situation than our future D without Myers.

That being said, I'd give up a huge package not including Myers to move up into the top 4.
Something like Miller, Sekera, Grigorenko and 8th for #1 and Varlamov. I'm pretty sure if Colorado was offered that they would not turn it down. That fills two big holes on their roster in addition to a Blue chip center prospect and a pick that could end up being Risto, who would be a great partner for EJ I think. I know Avs fans are going to say that they don't want Miller, but why would you not want a significant upgrade in net? That trade could turn Colorado into a top 5 seed overnight.

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06-12-2013, 10:19 PM
  #230
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How many times do Avs fans have to say they have no interest Miller before it sinks in?

Varly is young, 24, still developing with a young team that is about to be coached by one of the best goalies ever...

ADDED: and even with Miller/Varly included that trade absolutely does not make the Avs a top 5 team overnight

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06-12-2013, 10:23 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Not sure if this has been posted as I didn't go through all the threads but what about:

Myers
Grigorenko
16

for

1
if im colorado thats an easy yes

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06-12-2013, 10:26 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by herashak View Post
if im colorado thats an easy yes
Actually that's an extremely easy no

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06-12-2013, 10:27 PM
  #233
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Buffalo needs to start with 8+Myers OR 8+Grigs. You're not gonna get both.

That being said if buffalo first moves to #4 I might be content staying there and taking barkov if the avs are asking for too much.

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06-12-2013, 10:29 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by silence View Post
Actually that's an extremely easy no
Well then you're crazy.

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06-12-2013, 10:31 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by bnots13 View Post
Well then you're crazy.
No he isn't. Col is still giving up the best asset by far. Just doesn't inspire me to move the first overall.

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06-12-2013, 10:32 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by silence View Post
Actually that's an extremely easy no
No I think you're just in denial of what the pick is actually worth. That is an absolute HAUL, especially for a prospect. There's absolutely no recent precedence for such a trade for a high pick, so stop pretending you know what your pick is actually worth. If a comparable trade had happened within the last 15 years, then maybe you could know, but it hasn't. And don't get me started on Miller, Roy would love to have a goalie of his ilk on the Avs. Varlamov is just not even close to comparable. Miller is elite and one of the few In the game capable of stealing games on a regular basis, trust me, he's done it plenty of times on the terrible squad that buffalo iced this year.

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06-12-2013, 10:37 PM
  #237
Layne Staley
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Originally Posted by silence View Post
How many times do Avs fans have to say they have no interest Miller before it sinks in?

Varly is young, 24, still developing with a young team that is about to be coached by one of the best goalies ever...

ADDED: and even with Miller/Varly included that trade absolutely does not make the Avs a top 5 team overnight
Because Miller is much better then Varlamov, irregardless of contract status, salary or age. Varlamov will never reach Millers level.

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06-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
No I think you're just in denial of what the pick is actually worth. That is an absolute HAUL, especially for a prospect. There's absolutely no recent precedence for such a trade for a high pick, so stop pretending you know what your pick is actually worth. If a comparable trade had happened within the last 15 years, then maybe you could know, but it hasn't. And don't get me started on Miller, Roy would love to have a goalie of his ilk on the Avs. Varlamov is just not even close to comparable.
Miller for Varlamov isn't to help Colorado. It's to help Buffalo, since Miller wants to be traded and only has one year left on his deal. Avs are fine in goal for the time being. Thanks for the offer but no thanks. Buffalo can find another solution for their goalie problem.

Avs aren't going to trade away 1st overall pick and help out Buffalo with their goalie situation while not getting much for it.

Add that Avs have repeatedly stated they aren't interested in trading down lower than third overall or possibly fourth overall if it's for a massive return. Starting with 8th overall is a no go.

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06-12-2013, 10:41 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
No I think you're just in denial of what the pick is actually worth. That is an absolute HAUL, especially for a prospect. There's absolutely no recent precedence for such a trade for a high pick, so stop pretending you know what your pick is actually worth. If a comparable trade had happened within the last 15 years, then maybe you could know, but it hasn't. And don't get me started on Miller, Roy would love to have a goalie of his ilk on the Avs. Varlamov is just not even close to comparable. Miller is elite and one of the few In the game capable of stealing games on a regular basis, trust me, he's done it plenty of times on the terrible squad that buffalo iced this year.
Alright, point by point.

There hasn't been a trade of that caliber because it pretty much isn't possible. Nobody trades the number one pick unless it is to move down a couple spots. You want a potential franchise player, you're going to have to give. Myers is a must. He *could* be a franchise d man, but he's been pretty awful the past couple years. Grigs will be lucky if he's ever a #2 Center. Definitely not an elite talent. We aren't getting much with #16. I'd MUCH rather pick Jones and risk him busting than take that trade and risk Jones turning into a #1. The former doesn't run you out of the business. The latter does.

Miller is better than Varly. But we suck. Pretty bad. We won't be really good for a few years. Taking a 32 year old Miller doesn't make sense. Varly is still developing. He's pretty good now. We'll take our chances that he turns into a good goalie in a few years. Better than an over the hill Miller.

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06-12-2013, 10:42 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Because Miller is much better then Varlamov, irregardlessof contract status, salary or age. Varlamov will never reach Millers level.
Isn't, nor ever has been, a word

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06-12-2013, 10:42 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
No I think you're just in denial of what the pick is actually worth. That is an absolute HAUL, especially for a prospect. There's absolutely no recent precedence for such a trade for a high pick, so stop pretending you know what your pick is actually worth. If a comparable trade had happened within the last 15 years, then maybe you could know, but it hasn't. And don't get me started on Miller, Roy would love to have a goalie of his ilk on the Avs. Varlamov is just not even close to comparable.
The pick is worth a franchise dman or franchise center that will have a low cap hit for 3 years and the team that owns his rights will have at least another 4 years after that as well. sorry, but if you don't think that's worth a king's ransom then you are poorly mistaken...

Now, onto Miller, is he better than Varly, absolutely. however, Varly is still developing and only 24 years old on a team that is very young, still developing and not in win now mode. There is no reason for the Avs to give up a young goalie on a reasonable contract for a 32 (very soon to be 33) goalie on a not so cap friendly contract not to mention is a pending UFA in 2014.

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06-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by bnots13 View Post
Well then you're crazy.
well then you don't know what you're talking about...

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06-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #243
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as much as it would hurt, I would absolutely pull the trigger on 8+16+myers+grigorenko for the avs pick.
Myers has regressed every year since his rookie campaign and still was only average after ruff left.
Grigs could be an elite, offensively talented center, but I think he'd need to be sheltered (as briere was when he was here) to compensate for defensive deficiencies.
Basically, mac is the do it all #1 center we haven't had since drury left. And, unlike myers, armia, and grigs, there's a lot less worry about consistency issues, from what i've heard about the kid

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06-12-2013, 10:51 PM
  #244
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In all honesty, the only way I see the Sabres drafting 1st OA is if they first trade for another top 3/4 pick as Roy said he wouldn't move out of the top 3, maybe top 4.

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06-12-2013, 11:44 PM
  #245
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as a sabres fan ill put the disclaimer out that I would love mac but I don't want to mortgage our future. I'm content taking risto/lindholm and trading up higher from 16 to come away with two blue chip players.
That said the avs are looking for a franchise defensemen, if your being offered a franchise defenseman Myers, yes he is a franchise defenseman, top pairing all situations guy signed LONGTERM to a cap hit of 5.5 until 2019. The biggest issue I have seen with trading players is the fact there is only one year left, he is signed for many more and the real dollars are not at all bad he had his payday this season. If jones started this year in the nhl colorado would be over the moon if he was anywhere year Myers level. So i ask why wait for him to develop into Myers.

Pretty much any choice of our blue chip prospects want to solidify your defense more ? Pick psysk, mcnabb, mccabe? Not your thing? Want a potential top six forward ? Take one of Grigorenko, Armia, Larsson. Ok ...maybe you don't want prospects..take ennis? Maybe Foligno? Maybe you like stafford ..okay your right stafford was trying to catch you napping.

Number 8 overall ? Hell mine as well shore up your defense for the next 10 years and take Risto or Nurse. Maybe you take that pick and trade down a few spots to get even more assets and still get nurse or Zadarov or Santini? Its your pick does as you please!

So in conclusion you could fix a good bit of your needs (if you guys are happy with varlamov) maybe all your needs with one simple move to allow a team not in your conference to select a forward who you guys seem to have little interest in drafting. I'm going to leave it at this ..not looking to ruffle feathers or start a figtht its just my view of this situation. 17 more days guys and it'll all be over

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06-12-2013, 11:49 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Because when you're talking about the 1st overall pick, in a draft as strong as this one. Its not "just a prospect".
Doesn't the strength of the draft actually work against the case for keeping the pick? I mean, 2005 wasn't a particularly strong draft, yet the guy taken 1st is the best player in the game. Yet the 2003 draft was one of the strongest ever, and it saw better players go mid 1st or 2nd rd than the the guys in the top 5. I don't see MacKinnon or Jones as a generational talent, and if anything the top 3 this year kind of resembles the top 3 in 2009.

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06-12-2013, 11:57 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
as a sabres fan ill put the disclaimer out that I would love mac but I don't want to mortgage our future. I'm content taking risto/lindholm and trading up higher from 16 to come away with two blue chip players.
That said the avs are looking for a franchise defensemen, if your being offered a franchise defenseman Myers, yes he is a franchise defenseman, top pairing all situations guy signed LONGTERM to a cap hit of 5.5 until 2019. The biggest issue I have seen with trading players is the fact there is only one year left, he is signed for many more and the real dollars are not at all bad he had his payday this season. If jones started this year in the nhl colorado would be over the moon if he was anywhere year Myers level. So i ask why wait for him to develop into Myers.

Pretty much any choice of our blue chip prospects want to solidify your defense more ? Pick psysk, mcnabb, mccabe? Not your thing? Want a potential top six forward ? Take one of Grigorenko, Armia, Larsson. Ok ...maybe you don't want prospects..take ennis? Maybe Foligno? Maybe you like stafford ..okay your right stafford was trying to catch you napping.

Number 8 overall ? Hell mine as well shore up your defense for the next 10 years and take Risto or Nurse. Maybe you take that pick and trade down a few spots to get even more assets and still get nurse or Zadarov or Santini? Its your pick does as you please!

So in conclusion you could fix a good bit of your needs (if you guys are happy with varlamov) maybe all your needs with one simple move to allow a team not in your conference to select a forward who you guys seem to have little interest in drafting. I'm going to leave it at this ..not looking to ruffle feathers or start a figtht its just my view of this situation. 17 more days guys and it'll all be over
Not sure what you're arguing. The Sabres absolutely have the pieces to get a deal done. I just doubt they want to part with the necessary pieces. No big deal. If the situations were reversed, I wouldn't want the Avs to do it either.

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06-13-2013, 12:00 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Doesn't the strength of the draft actually work against the case for keeping the pick? I mean, 2005 wasn't a particularly strong draft, yet the guy taken 1st is the best player in the game. Yet the 2003 draft was one of the strongest ever, and it saw better players go mid 1st or 2nd rd than the the guys in the top 5. I don't see MacKinnon or Jones as a generational talent, and if anything the top 3 this year kind of resembles the top 3 in 2009.
I'd say it can be argued that this year's first>last year's first. It's also fair to say that this year's 8th>last year's 8th. If I was buffalo, I'd stick with their pick, but not because Mac or Jones isn't elite.

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06-13-2013, 12:12 AM
  #249
Scott Scissons
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Isn't, nor ever has been, a word
Actually it is a word, just not a very good one.

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06-13-2013, 12:16 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Doesn't the strength of the draft actually work against the case for keeping the pick? I mean, 2005 wasn't a particularly strong draft, yet the guy taken 1st is the best player in the game. Yet the 2003 draft was one of the strongest ever, and it saw better players go mid 1st or 2nd rd than the the guys in the top 5. I don't see MacKinnon or Jones as a generational talent, and if anything the top 3 this year kind of resembles the top 3 in 2009.
No.


The 2003 draft was strong because it was so deep. The 2005 draft wasn't strong, but it did have an extremely good 1st overall pick.


The 2013 draft is not only considered to be very deep(Not 03 deep, but better then that last few years) but also still has a strong top end in Mackinnon/Jones.

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