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06-12-2013, 11:54 PM
  #51
Honour Over Glory
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post

Markov


Harrington/Dumoulin/Maata
2014 1st round

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=24720
Just to put things in perspective in regards to market value, Streit is older than Markov and hes currently getting alot of attention. Philly traded a midd-level prospect and a 4th rounder just for his rights and hes probably gonna get signed for around 5M, and he has nowhere near the same offencive abilities as Markov.

Pits most likely wont resign Letang (assuming Malkin gets his 10M and apparently Letang wants something in the neighborhood of 7-8M) so this might be a good alternative for you guys, seeing as replacing Letang for a young proven/premium PMD would be both extremely costly in terms of $$ and moving pieces. Markov is gonna give you around the same PPG as Letang for another 3-4 years (buys your prospects enough time to develop) and hes cheaper, he would fit perfectly on a cup contending team. You also have alot of solid D-prospects so this shouldnt hurt you too much.

EDIT: i have no idea how but some ppl misunderstood my post, im not asking for letang : D. in short:


EDIT2: added my trade in
No thanks.

If the Penguins move Letang and at this point, I am definitely not against seeing him being moved, they will likely go after a young guy and some picks/prospects. It will basically be the defense version of the Jordan Staal trade, in the sense that the Pens will find a youngish replacement that will blossom into that PMD type guy. Lord knows the Pens aren't going to be a SCF team until after 2016 when the Pens finally get a new coach, so who cares at this point.

You guys can keep Markov. His injury history alone makes me want to stay alone, let alone trying to move that much for him, hell no. Dumoulin is a guy a lot of the Pens brass feel is the next guy ready to step up and be a stay at home type of defender.

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06-12-2013, 11:55 PM
  #52
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Markov


Harrington/Dumoulin/Maata
2014 1st round

Wow, that's your new proposal eh??

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06-12-2013, 11:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
Markov


Harrington/Dumoulin/Maata
2014 1st round

Wow, that's your new proposal eh??
new proposal? what was my old one? before i edited that in i literally said "A Must) Good D-prospect", thats pretty much the same thing no?

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06-12-2013, 11:56 PM
  #54
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I just don't really see how this trade actually helps Pittsburgh. They trade Letang mid-season (has he signed an extension or not?) for some sort of bounty, then overpay to get an aging expensive rental? If Letang won't sign an extension during the season I would rather just wait until the draft, even if it would negative impact his value. The return probably won't justify actually pulling the trigger but at least at that point you can say it was better than nothing.

I mean, if they do wind up trading Letang mid-season and need to get a PMD rental for the playoffs, and if Markov is healthy, and if he fits comfortably under the cap, sure, but for nothing higher than a third round pick. No way in hell is he worth a top prospect and a first rounder (even a late one).

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06-12-2013, 11:58 PM
  #55
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why not keep Markov? i was under the impression that the Habs were cup contenders.

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06-13-2013, 12:07 AM
  #56
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new proposal? what was my old one? before i edited that in i literally said "A Must) Good D-prospect", thats pretty much the same thing no?
You want way too much for a guy that last played 75+ games when the Pens last won the cup. This year he was finally healthy and put up 30pts in 48 games (a -9 to boot, worst on the team), good for him, but at 34yrs old and that injury history, teams are taking on a lot of risk. And for 1yr of his services. Habs can sell him at the deadline and hope for the best, hopefully he's healthy around then.

Pens will likely see how the negotiations go with Malkin, then move on towards Letang and if that stalls, then get Dupuis under contract and explore the options with Letang to see if he wants to either test the market or wait until next off season, in which case, I would move him anyway, if you wait until next summer and he still can't be signed, then you lost him for nothing. I'd want a definite answer this summer, if he's a no for an extension, he's then on the market.

The market for Letang would also be pretty massive. The best thing is that he has no NTC/NMC.

I would try to swing a deal for Bogosian, Burmistrov and the Jets 1st. I can live with that.

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06-13-2013, 12:09 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BrunoPuntzJones View Post
I just don't really see how this trade actually helps Pittsburgh. They trade Letang mid-season (has he signed an extension or not?) for some sort of bounty, then overpay to get an aging expensive rental? If Letang won't sign an extension during the season I would rather just wait until the draft, even if it would negative impact his value. The return probably won't justify actually pulling the trigger but at least at that point you can say it was better than nothing.

I mean, if they do wind up trading Letang mid-season and need to get a PMD rental for the playoffs, and if Markov is healthy, and if he fits comfortably under the cap, sure, but for nothing higher than a third round pick. No way in hell is he worth a top prospect and a first rounder (even a late one).
jesus, you replace letang's production with markov's for less money(2013-2014 ONWARDS).. how is that so hard to understand? forget about how old he is, you have to look at from a production standpoint, hes still gonna be producing well for the next 3-4 years. no **** this is a downgrade from your current team but thats because youv've been ****ing paying letang 3.5M, BRO LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU. MORE MONEY TO LETANG + MALKIN = WORSE TEAM BECAUSE YOU HAVE LESS MONEY TO SPEND ON OTHER PLAYERS!

PENS STRENGHT = PMD D-MEN, BUT HMM THEYRE AT LEAST 2-3 YEARS AWAY FROM PRODUCING AT A DECENT LEVEL, WHAT TO DO IN THE MEANWHILE WITHOUT SHELLING OUT 7-8MIL TO LETANG SO CROSBY DOESNT HAVE TO PLAY WITH A 4TH LINER(ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO RESIGN KUNITZ AND SUTTER)? MAYBE FIND A CHEAP ALTERNATIVE THAT WONT DECREASE OUR CHANCES OF WINNING A CUP

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06-13-2013, 12:11 AM
  #58
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How much less does Markov really take? Gonchar got 5 per at 39. Markov could command more simply by being younger. If the difference is $2-3 million per year, I'd rather have Letang. Especially with the cap almost certainly going up when the extension kicks in. The only possible replacement the Pens have as a prospect is Pouliot and he's highly-regarded but not a sure thing.

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06-13-2013, 12:16 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
You want way too much for a guy that last played 75+ games when the Pens last won the cup. This year he was finally healthy and put up 30pts in 48 games (a -9 to boot, worst on the team), good for him, but at 34yrs old and that injury history, teams are taking on a lot of risk. And for 1yr of his services. Habs can sell him at the deadline and hope for the best, hopefully he's healthy around then.

Pens will likely see how the negotiations go with Malkin, then move on towards Letang and if that stalls, then get Dupuis under contract and explore the options with Letang to see if he wants to either test the market or wait until next off season, in which case, I would move him anyway, if you wait until next summer and he still can't be signed, then you lost him for nothing. I'd want a definite answer this summer, if he's a no for an extension, he's then on the market.

The market for Letang would also be pretty massive. The best thing is that he has no NTC/NMC.

I would try to swing a deal for Bogosian, Burmistrov and the Jets 1st. I can live with that.
dear god, finally a smart post. what ive been saying is this trade makes sense unless you think you can get a quality PMD for letang(if it gets to that point), if you think you can find an adequate replacement then by all means you dont need to do this markov trade. it just comes down to replacing his production cost efficiently until your PMD prospects are ready to produce in the NHL

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06-13-2013, 12:17 AM
  #60
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Come on now, Dupuis is at least a third liner

I'm also confused as to why there's all this hostility for us not wanting your player.

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06-13-2013, 12:17 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BrunoPuntzJones View Post
How much less does Markov really take? Gonchar got 5 per at 39. Markov could command more simply by being younger. If the difference is $2-3 million per year, I'd rather have Letang. Especially with the cap almost certainly going up when the extension kicks in. The only possible replacement the Pens have as a prospect is Pouliot and he's highly-regarded but not a sure thing.
youve also been underpaying kunitz and sutter, you wont find the same quality players for their $. it all adds up

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06-13-2013, 12:19 AM
  #62
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Sutter can get a raise, too, but Kunitz may well walk. He's not young anymore.

Markov just doesn't make sense for the price you're proposing. And I don't see him being cheap enough to be a worthwhile temporary replacement.

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06-13-2013, 12:19 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
youve also been underpaying kunitz and sutter, you wont find the same quality players for their $. it all adds up
thing is, even if we trade letang - we have like 348230 PMD prospects waiting to take his spot. certainly not a 36 year old markov.

go away please.

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06-13-2013, 12:22 AM
  #64
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We don't have that many PMD prospects. We have one, really. Or at least we have one who might produce Letang-esque numbers someday.

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06-13-2013, 12:23 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
thing is, even if we trade letang - we have like 348230 PMD prospects waiting to take his spot. certainly not a 36 year old markov.

go away please.
markov is 34 and your PMD prospects are gonna take at least 3 years to break into the league, thats a long time(your blue line is going to be pretty empty until then). and then you have to pray that they pan out as expected

anywho im gone, thanks for the convo

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06-13-2013, 12:37 AM
  #66
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dear god, finally a smart post. what ive been saying is this trade makes sense unless you think you can get a quality PMD for letang(if it gets to that point), if you think you can find an adequate replacement then by all means you dont need to do this markov trade. it just comes down to replacing his production cost efficiently until your PMD prospects are ready to produce in the NHL
The thing is, if the Pens move Letang and they get something else back and not a PMD, do they really need to spend that much on a 1yr rental of Markov? With Markov's injury history, should the Pens spend that much on a guy that has missed an incredible amount of time the last 3yrs before this shortened season?

If Shero is smart, he gets the Malkin thing done in principle asap and turns his attention to Letang before Dupuis. Why?

Because of the UFA period. Shero can move Letang and get some pieces he needs, like young wingers, etc for depth, maybe some solid closer to NHL ready forward prospects since Beau is the only one that can make an impact in the top 6 and is going to be a top 6 forward for the Pens next season.

Also, you forget that the Pens still have Paul Martin and Simon Despres has untapped offensive potential, sure they won't be a 50pt type of guys, but if you can get 30-35 out of Martin and 25-30 out of Despres, that's still not that bad. Letang's points on the back end are a luxury. Pens can still have a solid transition game with Martin and Despres and maybe then it makes Niskanen not so expendable.

You move Letang...

Orpik, Martin
Despres, Engelland
Niskanen, Bortuzzo

That becomes the pairings, with maybe a veteran as the 7th. Maybe the Pens sign Anton Babchuk for 1yr, or whatever. There are options. But if you have to move Letang, then the defense prospects are more valuable to you in your system because now you have to look within to find future replacements. So Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, etc, are not as expendable for a 1yr rental as you would think. Then to top it off, a 1st rounder, again? Pens need to keep that. 2yrs in a row with moving a 1st rounder and drafting in the 3rd round as their 1st pick? That's 2 missed years of getting solid prospects in the meatier part of the draft.

Logically, it doesn't look like a smart move for this team.

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06-13-2013, 12:41 AM
  #67
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thing is, even if we trade letang - we have like 348230 PMD prospects waiting to take his spot. certainly not a 36 year old markov.

go away please.
Actually, we don't. The only legit PMD we have is Derrick Pouliot. Nick D'Agostino is a dark horse candidate and we lost Morrow. The team talks about Dumoulin as a guy that is more of a stay at home defender and they aren't wrong with that. Simon Despres isn't a PMD in the sense that most of us would think, he's more of a Paul Martin #'s type of guy, maybe a 30-35pt defenseman if we're lucky, but he'll be solid all around.

That doesn't mean the Pens should still trade for Andrei Markov.

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06-13-2013, 12:51 AM
  #68
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Yeah nah (<-- a Kiwi-ism for "no thanks")

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06-13-2013, 12:51 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
The thing is, if the Pens move Letang and they get something else back and not a PMD, do they really need to spend that much on a 1yr rental of Markov? With Markov's injury history, should the Pens spend that much on a guy that has missed an incredible amount of time the last 3yrs before this shortened season?

If Shero is smart, he gets the Malkin thing done in principle asap and turns his attention to Letang before Dupuis. Why?

Because of the UFA period. Shero can move Letang and get some pieces he needs, like young wingers, etc for depth, maybe some solid closer to NHL ready forward prospects since Beau is the only one that can make an impact in the top 6 and is going to be a top 6 forward for the Pens next season.

Also, you forget that the Pens still have Paul Martin and Simon Despres has untapped offensive potential, sure they won't be a 50pt type of guys, but if you can get 30-35 out of Martin and 25-30 out of Despres, that's still not that bad. Letang's points on the back end are a luxury. Pens can still have a solid transition game with Martin and Despres and maybe then it makes Niskanen not so expendable.

You move Letang...

Orpik, Martin
Despres, Engelland
Niskanen, Bortuzzo

That becomes the pairings, with maybe a veteran as the 7th. Maybe the Pens sign Anton Babchuk for 1yr, or whatever. There are options. But if you have to move Letang, then the defense prospects are more valuable to you in your system because now you have to look within to find future replacements. So Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, etc, are not as expendable for a 1yr rental as you would think. Then to top it off, a 1st rounder, again? Pens need to keep that. 2yrs in a row with moving a 1st rounder and drafting in the 3rd round as their 1st pick? That's 2 missed years of getting solid prospects in the meatier part of the draft.

Logically, it doesn't look like a smart move for this team.
yea this deal only makes sense under the assumption that you sign markov for another 3 years at like 4.5-5M per(which is a reasonable amount), its only worthwhile assuming you can replace letang's production with markov's at a cheap price and get added value for letang (relatively speaking someone like harrington and a 1st doesnt doesnt really hurt you all that much, especially for a 50-60 pter, and harrington isnt a PMD), until your prospects are ready to take on their main roles

the only reason i decided to make this offer to the pens is because i felt like you had a surplus of d-prospects and thought that markov would have been a good short term replacement for letang (3years-ish). that coupled with the premium price of good PMD's (at least the ones that have close to the same offencive skillsets as letang) made me think that this might be a worthwhile venture for you guys, apparently i was wrong


Last edited by TT1: 06-13-2013 at 12:57 AM.
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06-13-2013, 12:57 AM
  #70
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yea this deal only makes sense under the assumption that you sign markov for another 3 years, its only worthwhile assuming you can replace letang's production with markov's at a cheap price and get added value for letang (relatively speaking someone like harrington and a 1st doesnt doesnt really hurt you all that much, especially for a 50-60 pter, and harrington isnt a PMD), until your prospects are ready to take on their main roles

the only reason i decided to make this offer to the pens is because i felt like you had a surplus of d-prospects and thought that markov would have been a good short term replacement for letang (3years-ish)
Penguins HAD a surplus of quality defense prospects and could trade from that position of strength. But when you look at the possibility of moving Letang and in the last few years losing Goligoski, Morrow, etc...guys like Pouliot, Harrington, Maatta, and Dumoulin are valuable assets that need to be kept on. If Letang is the guy you are moving, you can now use him to go and get some forward prospects that this team sorely needs. The team also just lost 2 guys that are close to joining the AHL and maybe NHL sooner in Agostino (1 more year in College) and Hanowski (likely a regular for the flames next year).

The last few years, the only guy that even has a chance of being an impact forward since Jordan Staal, is Beau Bennett out of the forwards. That's not good at all. That's actually pitiful.

I would never move the D prospects and the 1st for Markov. Not after what Shero moved this past deadline. Because of that, it's off the table. You don't mortgage your future two years in a row like that.

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06-13-2013, 12:57 AM
  #71
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