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2013 Offseason Thread Part V: Streit signs with PHI (4 years, $5.25M per)

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06-12-2013, 11:05 PM
  #101
Rangers Fail
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Fun fact:

Girardi has 16 points in his last 32 playoff games. While providing elite level defense.
I don't think he's been anywhere near elite defensively in the playoffs.

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06-12-2013, 11:05 PM
  #102
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No but the difference between Staal and Faulk's potential is more than the difference between Girardi and McBain.

Plus we get younger in the process
Not so sure about that, I do agree that Faulk is the best player in the trade, but I'm not sure if it is enough to compensate the difference between a top pair defender (Girardi or Staal) vs. a bottom pair sheltered dman (McBain).

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06-12-2013, 11:11 PM
  #103
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Wait, what? Justin Faulk isn't better than Girardi or Staal.

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06-12-2013, 11:29 PM
  #104
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Wait, what? Justin Faulk isn't better than Girardi or Staal.
If he isnt now, he will be in a year or two. He is the best player in that trade

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06-12-2013, 11:31 PM
  #105
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If he isnt now, he will be in a year or two. He is the best player in that trade
I don't think he'll ever be better than either of them, honestly. I do think he will be just as good, but that's not the same thing. And something tells me I watch a hell of a lot more Hurricanes games than you do.

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06-12-2013, 11:38 PM
  #106
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I don't think he'll ever be better than either of them, honestly. I do think he will be just as good, but that's not the same thing. And something tells me I watch a hell of a lot more Hurricanes games than you do.
Wow personal attacks.... let's keep it friendly

Anyways, Staal is an uncertain. His eye will never be 100%. He'll be a 2nd pairing dman at most for his career on the Rangers, barring a miracle.

And if he becomes just as good that's great because Staal and Girardi won't be playing their best hockey anymore.

Is this a tough deal to make? Sure. But you have to spend money to make money.

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06-12-2013, 11:38 PM
  #107
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For me, I just put Dorsett or Nystrom on the 3rd line and role with that. Both were 3rd liners in Columbus/Dallas and can bring solid offense. Depends on which side they need, RW or LW.

I wouldn't mind Haley as the extra.
Playing on the 3rd line for a marginal team is not the same as playing on the 3rd line of a team that wants to be a Cup contender.

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06-12-2013, 11:42 PM
  #108
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Playing on the 3rd line for a marginal team is not the same as playing on the 3rd line of a team that wants to be a Cup contender.
That is the difference between us and Boston.

Our 3rd liners would be on their 4th line

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06-12-2013, 11:43 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
Wow personal attacks.... let's keep it friendly

Anyways, Staal is an uncertain. His eye will never be 100%. He'll be a 2nd pairing dman at most for his career on the Rangers, barring a miracle.

And if he becomes just as good that's great because Staal and Girardi won't be playing their best hockey anymore.

Is this a tough deal to make? Sure. But you have to spend money to make money.
How was that a personal attack? All I said was I get the feeling I watch more of the Canes, and therefore Faulk, than you do. If I'm wrong, just say so, but it's probably true of 95% of the Rangers board.

Admittedly, Staal's future is uncertain, but I prefer to treat our players as if they're 100% until it's proven otherwise. It hasn't been yet.

The give-to-get argument is tired, though. To me, all you're saying is that you want to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. That's not necessary.

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06-12-2013, 11:52 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
How was that a personal attack? All I said was I get the feeling I watch more of the Canes, and therefore Faulk, than you do. If I'm wrong, just say so, but it's probably true of 95% of the Rangers board.

Admittedly, Staal's future is uncertain, but I prefer to treat our players as if they're 100% until it's proven otherwise. It hasn't been yet.

The give-to-get argument is tired, though. To me, all you're saying is that you want to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. That's not necessary.
I guess it was the wording. It's hard to read emotion on the internet

IMO Staal will end up in CAR anyways and McBain needs a change of scenery.

Faulk is a fantastic young dman who is worth more than Staal at this point in his career.

I didn't even make this deal (Staal + Danny G for Faulk + McBain). I wanted MDZ+ for Faulk.

I'd prefer to have them all.

Edit: McDonagh- Faulk makes me salivate

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06-12-2013, 11:53 PM
  #111
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I'm not sure a change in scenery will help McBain. He's been awful.

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06-12-2013, 11:58 PM
  #112
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I'm not sure a change in scenery will help McBain. He's been awful.
he is so overrated.. rather trade for Tim Gleason. Rangers need that type of defense...

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06-12-2013, 11:59 PM
  #113
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I'm not sure a change in scenery will help McBain. He's been awful.
I haven't seen much of him, because whenever I watch CAR he's a healthy scratch but I think he still has some hidden potential. I've heard he has a good shot. Is this true?

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06-13-2013, 12:00 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
he is so overrated.. rather trade for Tim Gleason. Rangers need that type of defense...
That's like someone saying

"Eminger is so overrated... rather trade for Ryan McDonagh. We need that type of defense."

Everyone goes...

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06-13-2013, 12:01 AM
  #115
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Nvm.

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06-13-2013, 12:01 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
I haven't seen much of him, because whenever I watch CAR he's a healthy scratch but I think he still has some hidden potential. I've heard he has a good shot. Is this true?
He doesn't have a good enough shot to make up for his hockey IQ.

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06-13-2013, 12:06 AM
  #117
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Why are we trading a roster defenseman for Jamie McBain? This ain't NHL 13 where he becomes like a 86 overall. We're talking about a RHD who has a shot, little hockey IQ, and isn't good defensively. No thanks.

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06-13-2013, 12:21 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'm not sure a change in scenery will help McBain. He's been awful.
Can you expand on that since you watched him a lot?
The games I watched against the Rangers, I was impressed by his skating, his willingness to use his size, good positioning.
Edit: And yes, his shot was nice too.
Since the own goal the canes fans want to get rid of him.
To me, he is worth a shot for a mid rd pick. For a roster player, he is not worth it.

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06-13-2013, 12:23 AM
  #119
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I'd pass on McBain.

If we're going the "young, up and coming puck moving RHD" route, I'd much rather see what it could cost to get Vatanen out of Anaheim, or more likely, Elliot or Barrie out of Colorado.

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06-13-2013, 01:27 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
If he isnt now, he will be in a year or two. He is the best player in that trade
Nope. Both are better than Faulk will ever be. And I like Faulk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
He'll be a 2nd pairing dman at most for his career on the Rangers, barring a miracle.
I'm happy with 2 top-pairing dmen, even if one is playing on the second pair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
Faulk is a fantastic young dman who is worth more than Staal at this point in his career.
That's your opinion. Not a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
I haven't seen much of him, because whenever I watch CAR he's a healthy scratch but I think he still has some hidden potential. I've heard he has a good shot. Is this true?
How can you assume he has some hidden potential when you haven't watched him?

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06-13-2013, 01:37 AM
  #121
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Wait, what? Justin Faulk isn't better than Girardi or Staal.
Disagree entirely. He's stepped into the NHL and has played at a high level. I'd rather have Faulk moving forward for sure. He is a better player today as well. Not to say Girardi and Staal are bad players, they're both top pair players. Faulk is a #1 though with franchise player ability IMO.

Quote:
Justin Faulk is the back-bone of the entire defense corps. He was matched up against the opponent’s first line in all but six of his games and had to take on some tough territorial assignments on top of that. The fact that he is taking on this kind of workload in his early-20′s is amazing and gives the Hurricanes defense some hope for the a future.
Quote:
While Faulk may not have racked up eye-popping offensive numbers in 2013 (5 G, 10 A in 38 games) the Hurricanes were certainly a more effective goal-scoring club when he was on the ice. During 5-on-5 action, Carolina scored 2.94 goals per 60 minutes when Faulk was on the ice; conversely, the Canes scored just 2.64 even strength goals per 60 minutes when Faulk was off the ice. There may not be a stark contrast here, but 82 multiplied by 0.3 equals 24.6, so with a full season sample size, Faulk’s effect in this regard becomes evident. Again, keep in mind that almost all of Faulk’s even strength TOI came against the opponent’s top-six.
Now factor in his zone starts:

Quote:
We hear people talk about “puck-moving defensemen” quite a lot in this day and age, and while this term may be overused, Faulk fits the description extremely well.

During 5-on-5 play, Faulk’s shifts began in the offensive zone just 45.5 percent of the time in 2013, yet his shifts finished in the offensive zone 51 percent of the time.
http://sunbelthockey.com/justin-faul...tter-than-you/

Stud. Player to build a core defense around.

Hmm. To think of it, Staal and Girardi are UFAs to be, Faulk still has a year at .9mil with RFA status and control for the near future. I would think long about Staal-Girardi and Faulk-McBain swap.


Last edited by Kershaw: 06-13-2013 at 01:43 AM.
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06-13-2013, 02:33 AM
  #122
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I haven't seen Faulk play (or if I did, he didn't stand out to me), but I'm sure he's a good player. Having said that, Kersh do all those numbers actually mean anything?

I'd make the pretty safe assumption that a big reason why the team scores more when he's on the ice is because he plays mainly with top 6 forwards, and you'd expect the team to score more while they are on. Likewise, the extra 5.1% of the time that his shift finishes in the O zone compared to when it started doesn't seem all that incredible when you assume that he'd play about 30 shifts a game so 5% would be about an extra time and a half. Out of curiosity, does icing the puck count as ending the shift in your own zone? If a team iced it a lot then they'd have awesome stats showing that they started in their d-zone and ended in their o-zone, not sure the coach would be too happy though...

Personally, I'd want a better package (including forwards) if we were going to deal Staal/Girardi (or both)

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06-13-2013, 02:54 AM
  #123
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I haven't seen Faulk play (or if I did, he didn't stand out to me), but I'm sure he's a good player. Having said that, Kersh do all those numbers actually mean anything?

I'd make the pretty safe assumption that a big reason why the team scores more when he's on the ice is because he plays mainly with top 6 forwards, and you'd expect the team to score more while they are on. Likewise, the extra 5.1% of the time that his shift finishes in the O zone compared to when it started doesn't seem all that incredible when you assume that he'd play about 30 shifts a game so 5% would be about an extra time and a half. Out of curiosity, does icing the puck count as ending the shift in your own zone? If a team iced it a lot then they'd have awesome stats showing that they started in their d-zone and ended in their o-zone, not sure the coach would be too happy though...

Personally, I'd want a better package (including forwards) if we were going to deal Staal/Girardi (or both)


Nail, meet hammer. Advanced statistics certainly looked pretty ****ing flawed when you add some context/problem solving to them.

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06-13-2013, 03:37 AM
  #124
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Nail, meet hammer. Advanced statistics certainly looked pretty ****ing flawed when you add some context/problem solving to them.
Yeah, I don't want to knock them if there's been more thought put into them than it looks, but if it's just raw data being sorted it seems hard to take any kind of picture from it without looking at associated factors

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06-13-2013, 04:01 AM
  #125
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I still think the best option to trade away is Del Zotto. He doesn't really have the skating, shooting or passing ability to become a true offensive defenseman. I just don't see it, and I'm not even sure how he gets as many points as he does currently. With that done, I'd want us to go with:

Staal - Girardi
McDonagh - Veteran UFA
Moore - Stralman

for the next year or two, and once McIlrath is ready, put him with McDonagh. He'll take the role of Sauer, who was McDonagh's partner during their rookie season.

That gives us:

Staal - Girardi
McDonagh - McIlrath
Moore - Stralman

The top-4, with McIlrath replacing Sauer, is the group and pairings from 09/10, the team that got to the playoffs solely due to their defense and Hank. Pair that with an offense that doesn't have Brandon Dubinsky as their top scorer, and you have a really ****ing good team

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