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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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06-13-2013, 05:41 AM
  #201
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Schwartz was picked in the 1st I believe, but I get your point
Somehow, I always mix up Schwartz and Rattie. Don't know why.

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06-13-2013, 05:47 AM
  #202
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He's a better skater than that. WAY skinnier too.

I think he will become more offensive than Penner.

Been citing that comparison a lot but the best NHL comparison I've found for Mantha is James Neal.
Neal is much more physical than Mantha.......I personally think Mantha is closer to Eric Fehr just less physical once again.

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06-13-2013, 05:52 AM
  #203
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Neal is much more physical than Mantha.......I personally think Mantha is closer to Eric Fehr just less physical once again.
Mantha is really Ryder. Not a big initiator, good scorer.....Not exactly 100% of effort. Though I'd say that Mantha looks to be a better defensive player. But then I saw him one game, even if he was on the PK, he recognized that the D was pinching, went with him right in front of his net....but then just stood beside him when the puck went to the D who easily scored. I just couldn't believe my eye. Why would you show the talent to recognize a defensive play but then...just go in sleep mode. That does seem to be Mantha. Not sure though it's worth just throwing in the garbage though.

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06-13-2013, 06:58 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
I don't really agree with most of Button's rankings but that is just me. I just don't get all the hype around Hartman. He is this year's JT Miller or Boone Jenner or Scott Laughton. I just see him as a very very safe pick when we need to have an impact player and we have enough character fowards that we can afford to gamble on someone like Mccarron and the potential he hold. Same goes for Mantha
I would take Jenner or Laughton any day of the week.

Hartman plays with grit, energy and has offensive skills. I actually wouldnt be surprised to see him go ahead of our pick.

He has top 6 potential but can be a great bottom 6 player.

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06-13-2013, 07:19 AM
  #205
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They have 10 picks ?!? I am jealous. They need a cupboard refill and they will get it with that.
They only have 2 picks in the first 95, not sure that's how you "refill the cupboards" but they have a pile of 4th to 7th rounders so they may pick up a couple decent players from those, putting the odds on their side.

If the Habs want extra picks they should look at trading Weber and moving Ryder's rights plus maybe Moen if MT and MB don't want him back. Those 3 assets could get us 3 more picks in the 3rd to 6th range.

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06-13-2013, 07:32 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
But none of the players you mentioned 'fell' out of the top twenty, let alone to 25th or lower.
you get the point. those guys were consensus top 10 guys in their draft year, yet they fell between 10-20. This year, guys like lazar, horvat, wennberg, domi, who most people think theyy'll go between 10-20 could very well fall 10-15 spots as well. But you are right, I don't have any recent examples of fallers that went 25th or lower out of my head, but you get the point, the draft is so deep, someone is bound to fall out of the top 20.

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06-13-2013, 07:37 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Mantha is really Ryder. Not a big initiator, good scorer.....Not exactly 100% of effort. Though I'd say that Mantha looks to be a better defensive player. But then I saw him one game, even if he was on the PK, he recognized that the D was pinching, went with him right in front of his net....but then just stood beside him when the puck went to the D who easily scored. I just couldn't believe my eye. Why would you show the talent to recognize a defensive play but then...just go in sleep mode. That does seem to be Mantha. Not sure though it's worth just throwing in the garbage though.
Therefore if he isn't scoring he is going to be chewed up in this town. I like him but I'd pass to take someone with a more complete game

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06-13-2013, 07:42 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I see Hartman as a Hartnell / Callahan type.

The more I read about Mantha I see Penner.
It sounds like a good comparison to me, guy with size that doesn't always have a lot of intensity or pays the price.

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06-13-2013, 07:58 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
They have 10 picks ?!? I am jealous. They need a cupboard refill and they will get it with that.
Jealous? I'd rather have 5 picks in the Top 90 than 8 picks from the 4th round on.

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06-13-2013, 08:10 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Therefore if he isn't scoring he is going to be chewed up in this town. I like him but I'd pass to take someone with a more complete game
That is a real concern. Habs fans hate perimeter, inconsistent effort players, especially when they are big. We all remember Ryders first time here and how it ended, and this guy had scored 85 goals in the 3 years prior to his last one with us. Being young and a local boy will give him time but he will get the business from the fans if he plays soft and inconsistent lacks effort, even if he scores 30.

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06-13-2013, 08:30 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Playoff Beard View Post
you get the point. those guys were consensus top 10 guys in their draft year, yet they fell between 10-20. This year, guys like lazar, horvat, wennberg, domi, who most people think theyy'll go between 10-20 could very well fall 10-15 spots as well. But you are right, I don't have any recent examples of fallers that went 25th or lower out of my head, but you get the point, the draft is so deep, someone is bound to fall out of the top 20.
Absolutely. There will be fallers. My point is that I don't think some of the names bandied about on this board will be among the possible fallers, or at least falling enough that they can be realistically considered being available at 25. Nevertheless, if I am wrong, there will be no happier poster than this writer. And, if I am correct, there will still be enough talent at 25, 34, 36 and 55 to markedly improve the fortunes of this team if we select wisely.

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06-13-2013, 08:38 AM
  #212
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The more I read about Fasching especially. I remembered him being considered a potential first round pick earlier this year by some (Mckeen's I believe) I don't fully understand the fall in rankings. Dissapointing year, but had a good under 18. The size-skill combo seems enticing.
Really? I've had to look long and hard to find a positive scouting report on Fasching at this point. Way too inconsistent, not a great skater, not very engaged physically, and not showing a huge amount of skill. It seems like he has the frame scouts love but little else. Not sure I'd go for him in any round.

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06-13-2013, 08:43 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
That is a real concern. Habs fans hate perimeter, inconsistent effort players, especially when they are big. We all remember Ryders first time here and how it ended, and this guy had scored 85 goals in the 3 years prior to his last one with us. Being young and a local boy will give him time but he will get the business from the fans if he plays soft and inconsistent lacks effort, even if he scores 30.
No one cares what Habs fans think, we only make a big deal of it amongst ourselves, the hate is a self-contained in a closed system. Maybe that's a little exaggerated but our opinions aren't exactly important when management is trying to put together a team.

I'll pick the player that helps a team win games, no matter what style they play. If Mantha can score 30 goals in a season and Hartman can score 10, I'm quite sure I'd go with Mantha, no matter how the player looks when he plays. Goals win the games, not "intangibles" and heart, no matter how you spin it. You need a basis of good offensive players before you can add guys you "win with". Win as many defensive zone faceoffs, battles along the boards and fights you want but if you can't score goals, you cant win a game. That's all just hocus-pocus hockey talk IMO. If we truly feel Hartman/Nastasiuk/Horvat will be game-breakers and better players because of there intangibles and we feel we already have a basis of good offensive forwards, then we pick them. I'm just not sure we're there yet as a team and I wouldn't use our first round pick on them.

As long as he's not bad in the room, doesn't let himself get beat up after the whistle, attempts to play defensively and brings offence, I could care less how Mantha scores the goals. I'm quite sure his style of play, off-ice worth ethic, size and tools, with a little help, can translate to the NHL. He may never be the big power forward but he looks like he could be an elite complimentary offensive forward, there's nothing wrong with that.

IMO, you add grit to the scoring as it's very difficult to add scoring to the grit.


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06-13-2013, 08:56 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
No one cares what Habs fans think, we only make a big deal of it amongst ourselves, the hate is a self-contained in a closed system. Maybe that's a little exaggerated but our opinions aren't exactly important when management is trying to put together a team.

I'll pick the player that helps a team win games, no matter what style they play. If Mantha can score 30 goals in a season and Hartman can score 10, I'm quite sure I'd go with Mantha, no matter how the player looks when he plays. Goals win the games, not "intangibles" and heart, no matter how you spin it. You need a basis of good offensive players before you can add guys you "win with". Win as many defensive zone faceoffs, battles along the boards and fights you want but if you can't score goals, you cant win a game. That's all just hocus-pocus hockey-bogus IMO. If we truly feel Hartman/Nastasiuk/Horvat will be game-breakers and better players because of there immeasurable "intangibles" and we feel we already have a basis of good offensive forwards, then we pick them. I'm just not sure we're there yet as a team and I wouldn't use our first round pick on them.

As long as he's not bad in the room, doesn't let himself get beat up after the whistle, attempts to play defensively and brings offence, I could care less how Mantha scores the goals. I'm quite sure his style of play, off-ice worth ethic, size and tools, with a little help, can translate to the NHL. He may never be the big power forward but he looks like he could be an elite complimentary offensive forward, there's nothing wrong with that.

IMO, you add grit to the scoring as it's very difficult to add scoring to the grit.
I think its pretty well impossible to have a top 6 let alone a top 9 like we play and have all the guys be bangers and willing to go to the tough areas, as well as have top skill. There are lots of skill guys around the league, including big guys that play soft and give inconsistent efforts but still produce, and so I would be fine having a guy like that if he will score 30 goals, in fact Id be happy to have him. You would just need to have him on a line with a good sized harder nosed player. Im just saying a guy like that will have to deal with crap from fans and maybe media and will need to have the head to deal with it.

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06-13-2013, 09:00 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Playoff Beard View Post
you get the point. those guys were consensus top 10 guys in their draft year, yet they fell between 10-20. This year, guys like lazar, horvat, wennberg, domi, who most people think theyy'll go between 10-20 could very well fall 10-15 spots as well. But you are right, I don't have any recent examples of fallers that went 25th or lower out of my head, but you get the point, the draft is so deep, someone is bound to fall out of the top 20.
Saad comes to mind

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06-13-2013, 09:04 AM
  #216
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I think its pretty well impossible to have a top 6 let alone a top 9 like we play and have all the guys be bangers and willing to go to the tough areas, as well as have top skill. There are lots of skill guys around the league, including big guys that play soft and give inconsistent efforts but still produce, and so I would be fine having a guy like that if he will score 30 goals, in fact Id be happy to have him. You would just need to have him on a line with a good sized harder nosed player. Im just saying a guy like that will have to deal with crap from fans and maybe media and will need to have the head to deal with it.
Tell me the last team with soft inconsistent scorers in their top 6 that won the cup? Ryder was playing 3rd line and Carter actually goes to the net.

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06-13-2013, 09:05 AM
  #217
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Saad comes to mind
Saad fell throughout the year though. I think most people had him out of the first round by this time, so it wasn't much of a surprise to see him go where he did.

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06-13-2013, 09:05 AM
  #218
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Im pretty excited about the big physical D-men available this year. If given the choice between Morin and Ristolainen who would you take and why. And between Heatherington, Diaby, Santini and McCoshen who would you take and why, and do you have any concerns about how tough and physical the American players really are since their leagues tend not to have as much physical play as our CHL does.

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06-13-2013, 09:09 AM
  #219
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Im pretty excited about the big physical D-men available this year. If given the choice between Morin and Ristolainen who would you take and why. And between Heatherington, Diaby, Santini and McCoshen who would you take and why, and do you have any concerns about how tough and physical the American players really are since their leagues tend not to have as much physical play as our CHL does.
Ristolainen without a doubt. He was a stud at 16, hes even more of a stud now.

McCoshen AINEC in the next group. Has McDonagh like upside. We need a minute eating defenseman who can play in all situations.. if he can't get Mueller, McCoshen is the guy.

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06-13-2013, 09:12 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Tell me the last team with soft inconsistent scorers in their top 6 that won the cup? Ryder was playing 3rd line and Carter actually goes to the net.
The question isn't about just drafting a soft and inconsistent guy...it's about whether the soft and inconsistent guy will figure it out to the point of being able to contribute in the NHL.

If Krejci wasn't seen as soft and/or inconsistent in his draft year, wouldn't he have gone higher than 63rd? Of course. But he figured it out and now is on his way to leading the playoffs in scoring in two different years.

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06-13-2013, 09:15 AM
  #221
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The question isn't about just drafting a soft and inconsistent guy...it's about whether the soft and inconsistent guy will figure it out to the point of being able to contribute in the NHL.

If Krejci wasn't seen as soft and/or inconsistent in his draft year, wouldn't he have gone higher than 63rd? Of course. But he figured it out and now is on his way to leading the playoffs in scoring in two different years.
I understand that but I think at the same token, Krejci had a lot more offensive tools.. I don't see much from Mantha other than his frame and his shot. Decent vision but not like Kreji, nor the hands or smarts to be as involved all over the ice like he was. Anyways, I beat Mantha to death nothing more to add about him now, lol.

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06-13-2013, 09:17 AM
  #222
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Tell me the last team with soft inconsistent scorers in their top 6 that won the cup? Ryder was playing 3rd line and Carter actually goes to the net.
You aren't going to win if you have half your top 6 or 9 made up of soft players, and we know that first hand. However, you can have a guy like that on a line that has players that do have size and grit. Id prefer to have 3 big skilled and tough guys on a line but doubt that's going to happen and so I accept we will have softer type players in the line up too, hopefully only a couple at most. Such a guy would have to produce and 30 goals sounds good to me. I read somewhere that Mantha does drive the net, but cant say that from personal observation.

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06-13-2013, 09:39 AM
  #223
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Therefore if he isn't scoring he is going to be chewed up in this town. I like him but I'd pass to take someone with a more complete game
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
That is a real concern. Habs fans hate perimeter, inconsistent effort players, especially when they are big. We all remember Ryders first time here and how it ended, and this guy had scored 85 goals in the 3 years prior to his last one with us. Being young and a local boy will give him time but he will get the business from the fans if he plays soft and inconsistent lacks effort, even if he scores 30.
Yup, this is exactly why I don't want Mantha in the 1st round. A bad fit for this market.

These types of inconsistent/perimeter oriented/compete level comes and goes players are always whipping boys in Montreal, regardless of where they are from or how the team is doing...and the focus will be on him big time since he's a local boy. I don't think it would give him more time as you claim yianik. The expectations would be sky high from the start with the inevitable french media hype train.

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06-13-2013, 09:40 AM
  #224
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The question isn't about just drafting a soft and inconsistent guy...it's about whether the soft and inconsistent guy will figure it out to the point of being able to contribute in the NHL.

If Krejci wasn't seen as soft and/or inconsistent in his draft year, wouldn't he have gone higher than 63rd? Of course. But he figured it out and now is on his way to leading the playoffs in scoring in two different years.
It's easy to play tough when you have Lucic, Horton, and Chara on the ice with you.

Let's see him play tough with Desharnais, Diaz, and Kaberle on the ice with him.

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06-13-2013, 09:51 AM
  #225
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...for-tolchinsky

HF Article on another personal favorite, Sergei Tolchinsky

3rd round is too early for him, but Weber should get a 4th, non?



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