HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Three cheers for Gary Bettman

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-12-2006, 11:07 PM
  #26
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
everyone see the 8008 fans in Chicago to watch the Hawks tonight?

embarrsment to the Leauge how that team was let to be taken down like that .

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:10 PM
  #27
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
everyone see the 8008 fans in Chicago to watch the Hawks tonight?

embarrsment to the Leauge how that team was let to be taken down like that .
That would have happened even if a Council of Elders including Jean Beliveau, Wayne Gretzky and the ghost of Tim Horton were running the league.

I feel for those fans, I really do.

Montrealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:11 PM
  #28
JMMR
Registered User
 
JMMR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to JMMR Send a message via Yahoo to JMMR
The Hawks look pretty damn good this year.
What kills that team is they air 5 home games on local TV all year. The rest are blacked out.. as a fan would you want to pay for tickets to see your local team who just lost 5 of 6 on the road and the one home win they had you could not watch on TV!

JMMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:16 PM
  #29
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Calif via Montreal
Posts: 11,462
vCash: 500
1. Not only did Bettman side with the small market owners (and some medium) to institute a salary cap - which absolutely saved the game in Canada, but;

2. He facilitated an open process to review and change the rules and every rule change that was made is working, and;

3. He oversaw an expansion process in the 1990s which took advantage of the Gretzky effect in California and grew the game across the US (not that you care). This makes the NHL a legitimate Big Four sport imo that will grow into it's new TV markets as those southern cities continue to expand (everyone is moving to those new cities), and;

4. He put up with a bunch of nonsense from fans and didn't quit, and;

5. He basically gave the Montreal Canadiens a chance to win the Cup again.

That's only a couple things too.

He still hasn't succeeded in getting a national TV contract in the US though, but I think that will happen when it's ready to happen.

I'd like to see more and better camera angles, more microphones to hear the players, cheaper ticket prices (!) and a few other things.

tinyzombies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:22 PM
  #30
Evil Ted
Registered User
 
Evil Ted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,650
vCash: 500
Everyone just loves to hate this guy, hes done alot for the NHL in a positive manner, sure hes done some things to make some fans upset, but usually it makes another group happy.

The NHL finnaly has parody as far as the salary cap goes, so thats good hockey is in pretty good shape good for him

Evil Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:26 PM
  #31
Sthabs
Registered User
 
Sthabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,785
vCash: 500
here s how i d like the point separated

win in 60 mins 2 pts
win in OT /SO 1 pt
loose in OT/S0 0pt

This way teams won t try to get that 1 point for overtime, and the teams that loose either in OT/SO, well they had the chance to get it....
I also believe that a team that throws the puck outside , or a too many man advantage, should only be a 1 minute penalty...
But somehow I dont see these things happenings


And I for one really like the cap because it gives everybody the same chance.

Sthabs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:28 PM
  #32
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
It has to be said after all the criticism he's received that Gary Bettman has truly ushered in the golden age of hockey....has he not?

Hip hip!
the golden age of hockey for me was the early 90's. Lots of goals, fights, and battles. It was a good mix of everything. The refs generally let the ticky tack stuff go. The front of the net was only reserved for the brave. I guess it was also the beginning of the end because many believe that the expansion into places like ottawa, san Jose, tampa, and florida is what rooted all this clutching and grabbing. I think these teams were complaining about how tough it was to compete and the refs might have got a message to be alittle more lax about calling penalties. 1994 was probably the last year of this golden age, just before the lockout or strike... cant remember what it was

Post strike/lockout (1995), we were introduced to a succesful brand of hockey by the new jersey devils and then everyone started copying them. Teams were moving south of the border and the dollar was taking a nosedive.

And now, post lockout #2, it looks like the era has changed again. The dollar is hovering around 90 cents. Canadian owners are buying american teams. Rumours about teams coming to canada are emerging again. Now EVERY little ticky tack thing is being called. Not as good as the early 90's hockey but better than the 1995-2004 hockey


Last edited by Hackett: 10-12-2006 at 11:36 PM.
Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:37 PM
  #33
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
right but there a fundemental diffrence .


fill a hockey rink 16,800 to 20,000
fill a ball park 40,000 to 55,000


how much harder is it to fill a ball park?





who cant fill a hockey stadium in the usa when your given out 2 for 1 tickets and slashing prices ? that what happened last season .



lets seee if the " new nhl " attendace keeps up this year with higher prices . i have my doubts .
Stadium size is not relevant to a drop or increase in income.

The NHL had a record income last year, cash money.

MLB took 5 years to regain their previous revenue.

Habbadasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:44 PM
  #34
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sthabs View Post
here s how i d like the point separated

win in 60 mins 2 pts
win in OT /SO 1 pt
loose in OT/S0 0pt

This way teams won t try to get that 1 point for overtime, and the teams that loose either in OT/SO, well they had the chance to get it....
I also believe that a team that throws the puck outside , or a too many man advantage, should only be a 1 minute penalty...
But somehow I dont see these things happenings


And I for one really like the cap because it gives everybody the same chance.
No one will ever accept to lose points in a shootout. They will remove the shootout before that happens.

znk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:45 PM
  #35
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
right but there a fundemental diffrence .


fill a hockey rink 16,800 to 20,000
fill a ball park 40,000 to 55,000


how much harder is it to fill a ball park?





who cant fill a hockey stadium in the usa when your given out 2 for 1 tickets and slashing prices ? that what happened last season .



lets seee if the " new nhl " attendace keeps up this year with higher prices . i have my doubts .
You're the optimist kind arent you.

znk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2006, 11:55 PM
  #36
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
You're the optimist kind arent you.
explain yourself ? last year the nhl was " NEW" thats how they sold it to everyone . Given away free tickets , free cars at home games down in some Us cities that how they roped them in .


this year it's like a new car . the " new effect" wears off quickly.

tickets prices have been raise all over the leauge, the 2 for 1 deals have been pared back . the give away free cars has been pared back .Up goes ticket prices in many cities .


i just shown you early attendance from some cities .


as i said ill keep a eye on it .

optimist kind? yes i am . i think Montreal is going to win the cup this year.


Last edited by Artyukhin*: 10-13-2006 at 12:31 AM.
Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 12:27 AM
  #37
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,266
vCash: 500
Let's give Bettman any credit that's due him, but keep in mind a few other things that will become part of his legacy. First, there's been expansion to cities in which hockey is as peripheral as it can get. Second, instead of swelling, the TV revenue stream has shrunk. Each new TV contract in the US appears to be worse than the one that preceded it.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 01:18 AM
  #38
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Let's give Bettman any credit that's due him, but keep in mind a few other things that will become part of his legacy. First, there's been expansion to cities in which hockey is as peripheral as it can get. Second, instead of swelling, the TV revenue stream has shrunk. Each new TV contract in the US appears to be worse than the one that preceded it.
Based on franchise moves, I'd say the NHL has had a much more successful expansion history in the past decade than, say, the NBA.

And we sure don't have a Marlins-type franchise to worry about, do we? (well, except Chicago, I guess)

The NFL is a success, but can't figure out a way to put a team in the 2nd largest city in the USA.

There's negativity everywhere, but I would say expansion has been a smashing success. Get ready for more, because if KC can come up with $250m+ within the next two years (to get a major tenant for their new-in-2007 arena) they'll need to expand by 2. I'd guess Portland, Houston and Las Vegas as the other possibilities.

And I'm looking forward to it.

Montrealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 01:29 AM
  #39
les Habs
Registered User
 
les Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Country: United States
Posts: 9,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendextall View Post
Here are my problems with your "golden age of hockey"

- Too many penalties.
- Inconsistent calls, one too many referees.
- Shootouts are boring, I'd rather a tie game.
- Some games are worth 2 points, others are worth 3 points?
Doesn't make much sense
- Shooting the puck over the glass should have the same
consequences as icing the puck.
1 The rules needed tightening.
2 What's new? That'll never go away.
3 Shootouts aren't boring, just watered down now. Should have stuck with a tie.
4 A win should be worth 3 points, a tie/draw worth 1 point (no OT or shootout during regular season) and a loss worth nuthin'. Anything other than this is stupid.
5 Agreed.

les Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 01:46 AM
  #40
Le Maroons
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by les Habs View Post
1 The rules needed tightening.
2 What's new? That'll never go away.
3 Shootouts aren't boring, just watered down now. Should have stuck with a tie.
4 A win should be worth 3 points, a tie/draw worth 1 point (no OT or shootout during regular season) and a loss worth nuthin'. Anything other than this is stupid.
5 Agreed.
Why is a win 3 points if there is no overtime?
They won't take OT or SO's away. I don't like the point system right now.

Le Maroons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 02:10 AM
  #41
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Calif via Montreal
Posts: 11,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
the golden age of hockey for me was the early 90's. Lots of goals, fights, and battles. It was a good mix of everything. The refs generally let the ticky tack stuff go. The front of the net was only reserved for the brave. I guess it was also the beginning of the end because many believe that the expansion into places like ottawa, san Jose, tampa, and florida is what rooted all this clutching and grabbing. I think these teams were complaining about how tough it was to compete and the refs might have got a message to be alittle more lax about calling penalties. 1994 was probably the last year of this golden age, just before the lockout or strike... cant remember what it was

Post strike/lockout (1995), we were introduced to a succesful brand of hockey by the new jersey devils and then everyone started copying them. Teams were moving south of the border and the dollar was taking a nosedive.

And now, post lockout #2, it looks like the era has changed again. The dollar is hovering around 90 cents. Canadian owners are buying american teams. Rumours about teams coming to canada are emerging again. Now EVERY little ticky tack thing is being called. Not as good as the early 90's hockey but better than the 1995-2004 hockey
Well, also teams had to compete against the financial juggernauts in New York, Detroit, Colorado, St. Louis, Toronto, New Jersey later on, Dallas. The only way to stop all the talent on those teams was to cheat, so everyone did it.

tinyzombies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 05:40 AM
  #42
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Well, also teams had to compete against the financial juggernauts in New York, Detroit, Colorado, St. Louis, Toronto, New Jersey later on, Dallas. The only way to stop all the talent on those teams was to cheat, so everyone did it.
Well, its like picking the lesser of 2 evils. There is no perfect system that I am aware of.

the salary cap has alot of flaws too. I think it punishes good organizations. (Teams that draft well and trade well and then lose thier own developed talent a few years later strictly for cap reasons)

On the other hand, the pre lockout CBA gave a huge advantage to larger market teams.



But even under the old system, small market or large market, teams didn't have to "cheat". It was simply their choice to cheat because the refs were letting them and most teams tried to model themselves like the devils. There were exceptions, Edmonton was one of the fastest teams in the league those years and relied on their up tempo style to win games despite their budget.

And I think teams can win championships even if their budget does not compare to other markets. They just have to do a better job at developing talent.

Baseball has whacky disparity in terms of team budgets but championship wise, there has been alot of parity since 2000


2000 - New York Yankees

2001 - Arizona Diamondbacks

2002 - Anaheim Angles?

2003 - Florida Marlins ?

2004 - Boston Red Sox

2005 - Chicago White Sox

2006 - will have a new champion (mets, cards, A's or Tigers)

Case in point, I dont know which system is better

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 09:37 AM
  #43
Mr San Diego Hab
Mosdell = Cup Champ
 
Mr San Diego Hab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego/Anchorage
Country: United States
Posts: 661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
how about 400 in canadain tire money instead ?

seriously tho lets take a loook for a second .one of the chepest seats in the entire Nhl is Anhiem . ill keep my eye on it .


Anhiem
Honda Center
Max Capicity 17,174


Friday, October 6, 2006
Attendance 17,174 at Honda Center

Monday, October 9, 2006
Attendance 13,889 at Honda Center

Wednesday, October 11, 2006
Attendance 12,394 at Honda Center





ATLANTA
Max Capicity 18,750
Philips Arena

Saturday, October 7, 2006
Attendance 14,239 at Philips Arena

Wednesday, October 11, 2006
Attendance 12,579 at Philips Arena







FLORIDA Panthers
BankAtlantic
MAX Capicity 19,452

Wednesday, October 11, 2006
Attendance 14,312 at BankAtlantic





LOS ANGELES KINGS-
Staples Center
Max Capicity 18500

Tuesday, October 10, 2006
Attendance 14,394 at Staples Center


Thursday, October 12, 2006
Attendance 14,167 at Staples Center

The Ducks have sold over 11,000 season tickets this year... a record for them. Not bad for So Cal.

Mr San Diego Hab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 09:40 AM
  #44
Mr San Diego Hab
Mosdell = Cup Champ
 
Mr San Diego Hab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego/Anchorage
Country: United States
Posts: 661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
everyone see the 8008 fans in Chicago to watch the Hawks tonight?

embarrsment to the Leauge how that team was let to be taken down like that .
The Chicago owner is a joke.

Mr San Diego Hab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 09:57 AM
  #45
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Well, its like picking the lesser of 2 evils. There is no perfect system that I am aware of.

the salary cap has alot of flaws too. I think it punishes good organizations. (Teams that draft well and trade well and then lose thier own developed talent a few years later strictly for cap reasons)

On the other hand, the pre lockout CBA gave a huge advantage to larger market teams.



But even under the old system, small market or large market, teams didn't have to "cheat". It was simply their choice to cheat because the refs were letting them and most teams tried to model themselves like the devils. There were exceptions, Edmonton was one of the fastest teams in the league those years and relied on their up tempo style to win games despite their budget.

And I think teams can win championships even if their budget does not compare to other markets. They just have to do a better job at developing talent.

Baseball has whacky disparity in terms of team budgets but championship wise, there has been alot of parity since 2000


2000 - New York Yankees

2001 - Arizona Diamondbacks

2002 - Anaheim Angles?

2003 - Florida Marlins ?

2004 - Boston Red Sox

2005 - Chicago White Sox

2006 - will have a new champion (mets, cards, A's or Tigers)

Case in point, I dont know which system is better
Look at what happend to the marlins after they won.

znk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 10:01 AM
  #46
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
I don't like the massive expansions he did in the 90s, it killed the talent pool and forced teams to play the trap.

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 10:33 AM
  #47
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I don't like the massive expansions he did in the 90s, it killed the talent pool and forced teams to play the trap.
It only killed the tallent pool because teams would rather draft big 4rt linners instead of giving a chance to small skilled players. Besides the pool of players also expanded to USSR contries. I think that argument does not work.

znk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 10:44 AM
  #48
BORAT
Registered User
 
BORAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kazakhstan
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 2,774
vCash: 500
MAy the Gods of Mount Hrejmek curse him and every dog in his generation

BORAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 11:01 AM
  #49
les Habs
Registered User
 
les Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Country: United States
Posts: 9,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Maroons View Post
Why is a win 3 points if there is no overtime?
They won't take OT or SO's away. I don't like the point system right now.
A win is worth three points because then teams are theoretically more apt to go for the win as opposed for the draw since it'd be worth that much more. It's what they switched to in football/soccer.

Even though they won't take them away it doesn't mean that they shouldn't.

les Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2006, 02:52 PM
  #50
Burnside_1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
The league was in such bad shape a few years ago that even not doing much will be one hell of an improvement. Really similar to the habs situation. The only difference is that Bettman was in great part responsible for the mess he had to clean.

the sport is basically dead in the US. The second biggest market( or third?) in the league only has a handful of local games shown live on TV. I don't think any commissoner would let that happen. And same thing for the Islanders situation... Too bad because in both cases the fans suffer from this.

Expansion... well it's not been that bad, but I think we've reached the max of teams now, 30 is plenty.

And before thinking of expanding, the league should try to make sure that all of its franchises are healthy. There are way too many empty seats around the league as of now.

I'm glad of the new CBA, the cap was essential, it completly reshaped the way a team is managed now.

So the guy basically cleaned part of his own mess. There are still many improvements to be made and things to fix, but we're at least better off than we were 5-10 years ago.

Burnside_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.