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Ryder isn't coming back (according to his agent)

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Old
06-13-2013, 10:37 AM
  #176
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
That's the best metaphor I've seen on this site.
It's an analogy, not a metaphor, and it's vague. Anyway, 7 rounds, 2 hits, .286 average, is considered pretty good in baseball. Not a bad average, but it says nothing about home runs.

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06-13-2013, 10:57 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's an analogy, not a metaphor, and it's vague. Anyway, 7 rounds, 2 hits, .286 average, is considered pretty good in baseball. Not a bad average, but it says nothing about home runs.
Yeah, you're right.

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06-13-2013, 11:07 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's an analogy, not a metaphor, and it's vague. Anyway, 7 rounds, 2 hits, .286 average, is considered pretty good in baseball. Not a bad average, but it says nothing about home runs.
Obviously having early picks is like hitting off a bad pitcher, much higher chance of a hit or a home run. Later picks you're more happy with a single or double.

Having 3 1st rounders is better than 5 picks in the 5th to 7th round. Quality is more important than quantity, but quantity also has some value.

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06-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #179
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I highly doubt they would give us a mid-level prospect back if it's public knowledge there is no chance we sign him. Lost a bit of leverage there.

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06-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #180
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We might get a late round pick, if we're lucky. I won't be upset if we can't manage to trade his rights.

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06-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #181
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I highly doubt they would give us a mid-level prospect back if it's public knowledge there is no chance we sign him. Lost a bit of leverage there.
What does the Habs not wanting to sign him have to do with leverage?

Having leverage means 6-7 teams are interested in him and one will give you a higher pick than other to get his rights. Has nothing to do with the Habs not wanting him.

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06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
What does the Habs not wanting to sign him have to do with leverage?

Having leverage means 6-7 teams are interested in him and one will give you a higher pick than other to get his rights. Has nothing to do with the Habs not wanting him.
There's no chance he signs, therefore the Habs have nothing to lose by letting him walk to UFA.

Perhaps leverage is the wrong word. There's less at stake for teams looking to bid on him (no risk the Habs just re-sign him). The Habs don't have to move him because he's not coming back, either way.

I guess I meant to say this isn't your typical high-value UFA where the team isn't sure they might sign him so they're shopping his rights around to sniff out what the market is like.

Did...that make any sense? I don't even know anymore. I need coffee.

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06-13-2013, 11:48 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
There's no chance he signs, therefore the Habs have nothing to lose by letting him walk to UFA.

Perhaps leverage is the wrong word. There's less at stake for teams looking to bid on him (no risk the Habs just re-sign him). The Habs don't have to move him because he's not coming back, either way.

I guess I meant to say this isn't your typical high-value UFA where the team isn't sure they might sign him so they're shopping his rights around to sniff out what the market is like.

Did...that make any sense? I don't even know anymore. I need coffee.
Ryder is as much a high value UFA as Gonchar Streit or Wisniewski. Trading for his rights gives you a window to talk to him before anybody else, not just making him a monetary offer but selling him on the merits of signing with your team and maybe bringing him in for a visit and everything.

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06-13-2013, 11:52 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Ryder is as much a high value UFA as Gonchar Streit or Wisniewski. Trading for his rights gives you a window to talk to him before anybody else, not just making him a monetary offer but selling him on the merits of signing with your team and maybe bringing him in for a visit and everything.
Point conceded, as usual.

Streit netting a conditional 4th rounder is pretty sweet. I don't know if we could get that much for Ryder, but would be a coup if Bergevin could pull it off.

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06-13-2013, 12:08 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Point conceded, as usual.

Streit netting a conditional 4th rounder is pretty sweet. I don't know if we could get that much for Ryder, but would be a coup if Bergevin could pull it off.
We got a 5th-Round pick for Wisniewski. I really don't see us getting more than that. Anyways, it's already written in the sky the guy isn't coming back next year. I would be surprised if any GM trades for his rights.

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06-13-2013, 01:11 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
We got a 5th-Round pick for Wisniewski. I really don't see us getting more than that. Anyways, it's already written in the sky the guy isn't coming back next year. I would be surprised if any GM trades for his rights.
The year Wisniewski went to CBJ there was a bigger UFA market than this year. Streit went for a 4th and Wisniewski was worth more at that time. I think with a weak market you'll see a lot of UFA's traded.

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06-14-2013, 06:18 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The year Wisniewski went to CBJ there was a bigger UFA market than this year. Streit went for a 4th and Wisniewski was worth more at that time. I think with a weak market you'll see a lot of UFA's traded.
Moncton scout you hit the nail right on the head with every post you made. Ryder has lots of value ,he is a 30 goal scorer that has won the cup. Coldplay you have no idea what you are talking about in this subject,even you can't make out what you are writing. MB should be able to get something for Ryder andsomething is better than nothing. The habs not wanting to sign Ryder doesn't affect this process it starts this process.

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06-14-2013, 06:44 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
Moncton scout you hit the nail right on the head with every post you made. Ryder has lots of value ,he is a 30 goal scorer that has won the cup. Coldplay you have no idea what you are talking about in this subject,even you can't make out what you are writing. MB should be able to get something for Ryder andsomething is better than nothing. The habs not wanting to sign Ryder doesn't affect this process it starts this process.
Except streak goal scorers are abundant in the NHL even if Ryders the only one on the market. Look at it from other GM perspective. Ryder is the only 30 goal scorer going into free agency, why the hell would he sign before then? Especially when he's already won a cup and has a track record of being a mercenary.

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06-14-2013, 07:59 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Except streak goal scorers are abundant in the NHL even if Ryders the only one on the market. Look at it from other GM perspective. Ryder is the only 30 goal scorer going into free agency, why the hell would he sign before then? Especially when he's already won a cup and has a track record of being a mercenary.
He would sign before then because I'll get his rights and talk to him alone, without 10 other GM's in his ear...and have time to bring him in for a visit and sell him on my team's plan to contend/build a winner and have him spend time with potential teammates.

It's a whole sales job.

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06-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Except streak goal scorers are abundant in the NHL even if Ryders the only one on the market. Look at it from other GM perspective. Ryder is the only 30 goal scorer going into free agency, why the hell would he sign before then? Especially when he's already won a cup and has a track record of being a mercenary.
Nathan Horton?

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06-14-2013, 10:15 AM
  #191
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Nathan Horton?
Horton is exactly the kind of forward we need.......can the B's afford to let him go? They may have to choose who gets the money, between him and Rask?

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06-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #192
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Hate to say it but Nathan Horton isn't going to sign here, I doubt it very much

I think there is a bigger chance he takes a bigger pay cut to stay in Boston then him signing here for just the money

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06-14-2013, 10:24 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Horton is exactly the kind of forward we need.......can the B's afford to let him go? They may have to choose who gets the money, between him and Rask?
Horton? Injury-prone. The B's will let him go, sure. But which team will be willing to pay him 5m a year?

I don't see him signing in Montreal.

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06-14-2013, 03:17 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Horton? Injury-prone. The B's will let him go, sure. But which team will be willing to pay him 5m a year?

I don't see him signing in Montreal.
Why do you think they will let him go for sure? They have plenty of options

They still haven't placed Savard on LTIR, that's 5 million right there. They should be bringing Ference back and they could always make a bit more cap space by moving guys like like Peverley or Kelly that are both making 3 million. And those guys have a bit of value and could be easily moved

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06-14-2013, 03:31 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
We got a 5th-Round pick for Wisniewski. I really don't see us getting more than that. Anyways, it's already written in the sky the guy isn't coming back next year. I would be surprised if any GM trades for his rights.
And that 5th round pick became Charles Hudon!

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06-14-2013, 03:35 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Why do you think they will let him go for sure? They have plenty of options

They still haven't placed Savard on LTIR, that's 5 million right there. They should be bringing Ference back and they could always make a bit more cap space by moving guys like like Peverley or Kelly that are both making 3 million. And those guys have a bit of value and could be easily moved
In order to trade Kelly they'd have to eat some salary. No way somebody takes him at 3 mil per year at a production rate of about 22 points this year.

Peverley would also be a tough sell at 18 points in 47 games for an offensive guy.

Maybe a desperate team takes one but I'm not sold.

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06-14-2013, 03:36 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
In order to trade Kelly they'd have to eat some salary. No way somebody takes him at 3 mil per year at a production rate of about 22 points this year.

Peverley would also be a tough sell at 18 points in 47 games for an offensive guy.

Maybe a desperate team takes one but I'm not sold.
On the open market they most probably go for closer to 4, it's not only about points. They're also winners and teams now look to acquire those players that have won in the past

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06-14-2013, 03:39 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
On the open market they most probably go for closer to 4, it's not only about points. They're also winners and teams now look to acquire those players that have won in the past
Lots of guys are winners, teams will give you a bit extra(see Moen) but not twice your regular value. Kelly is a solid player at 2-2.5 mil, at 3 mil it's overpayment, plus the cap is coming down, will be hard to move this summer. Same for Peverley.

Ryder having won a cup won't make him a 7 mil/year player.

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06-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Lots of guys are winners, teams will give you a bit extra(see Moen) but not twice your regular value. Kelly is a solid player at 2-2.5 mil, at 3 mil it's overpayment, plus the cap is coming down, will be hard to move this summer. Same for Peverley.

Ryder having won a cup won't make him a 7 mil/year player.
Agree to disagree. I guess we will find out soon what Chiarelli's plan is. I'm sure he knows what he is doing, probably the best GM in the league

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06-14-2013, 05:28 PM
  #200
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I doubted ryder would come back right from the start.

Now, I'm really interested in what MB has in mind with this money. Will he target another top 6 or will he promote from within his lineup and organization? Does he add to the defense? Does he save it up for future contract demands from within?

I admit, I wasn't a fan of the Cole deal at first, but now the asset has essentially been converted to cash. What MB does with it will be the measuring tool of the Cole trade.

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