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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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06-13-2013, 09:53 PM
  #301
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You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit

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06-13-2013, 10:05 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit
It really makes no sense to me right now. I don't care what ways people try to spin it, I wouldn't break that unit up unless something drastic happens.

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06-13-2013, 10:12 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit
I agree. But you and I both know that all Flyers line-ups must be written in pencil lest Mr. Murphy empty his bladder all over it. It would be great to have a ready replacement for Timonen if he gets injured or just needs a night off, or if the PP 1st unit struggles.

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06-13-2013, 11:23 PM
  #304
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Streit will be nice in the fact that we will have 2 potent PP units and in have another weapon to be able to switch things up with if things get stale. If Timonen gets hurt there's some pretty good insurance, too.

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06-14-2013, 12:14 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Fair points about Kimmo, but Gus is winning me over. He really played well down the stretch, and clearly impressed his coach at the WC, since he played loads of minutes. He has come a long way, from a smurf D in Sweden to a U.S. college, undrafted he's on the verge of becoming an NHL regular full t ime. That does show some drive and determination.
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Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide View Post
Gus is clearly ready to take the next step and solidify himself as an NHL regular this coming year. Where he goes from there is anyone's guess but I think he and Grossmann are going to make a hell of a third pairing come October.
Gus is winning me over also... my point was that he will not completely replace Kimmo's game because he does not have that warrior gene that makes little man a giant. I don't know if he can reach the same O stage as Kimmo, or the D side level as him... but he may be able to do so, at least at near Kimmo's level on both... but he alone IMO can never fill the void left when Kimmo retires. That said, if he does become a good two-way D-man, I will be elated and the Flyers can give him a partner who has the muscle/size. After he returned from the A and was needed on a banged up/patched up D-corps, he was pretty solid and displayed flashes of what we hope he can become on a consistent basis.

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06-14-2013, 12:27 AM
  #306
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I truly think if Gustafsson isn't made a regular NHLer this season then the Flyers have ruined his development and and should trade him for the sake of his career

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06-14-2013, 12:47 AM
  #307
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Its just lol at the posters commenting what Streit should get per yr and where he should play give me a break.

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06-14-2013, 05:20 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I truly think if Gustafsson isn't made a regular NHLer this season then the Flyers have ruined his development and and should trade him for the sake of his career
Yep, I think he will play every game he is healthy for though.

Each of the 3 (proper, not counting 10-11) stints in the NHL he has had he has done ok in, and in the last stint he was our third best D man after Kimmo and Schenn (2nd after Schenn when Kimmo was down).

Since 06-07 Gus has shown he is a good player at every level he has played at, J20, being one of the best D men in the CCHA (and NCAA overall in his last 2 years), a multiple time AHL Allstar, impressing in the NHL, and then being the D man with the most minutes for Sweden in a World Championship Gold Medal team.

He is really looking like he is going to be a 2nd pairing D man who can be a PP threat.

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06-14-2013, 06:58 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit
Didn't the Flyers have the best PP% this year, or at least close to it? I don't remember either unit being incompetent without Streit. Streit will probably make the second unit better, but I don't think you need to act like the second unit was in shambles and Streit will possibly make the unit competent. A little over dramatic there.

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06-14-2013, 07:16 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Didn't the Flyers have the best PP% this year, or at least close to it? I don't remember either unit being incompetent without Streit. Streit will probably make the second unit better, but I don't think you need to act like the second unit was in shambles and Streit will possibly make the unit competent. A little over dramatic there.
I'm not sure if the numbers back this up but from what I remember the 1st pp unit was absolutely deadly and I would put it up against any other unit in the league. However, the 2nd unit was mostly just thrown together from all our other parts (Schenn, Couturier, Read, Gagne, Knuble, McGinn, Coburn and L. Schenn manning the points, etc.) and was pretty terrible. Maybe not completely incompetent but pretty close, no cohesion or chemistry at all. The biggest problem with the second unit seemed to be that it didn't have a real quarterback or anyone to really bring the pieces together. Hopefully Streit can do that.

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06-14-2013, 07:20 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit
Nothing is written in stone. Just because it works good doesn't mean it can't work better. If Pronger made a recovery, Timonen would be bumped from the top PP unit and no one would blink an eye. If Streit is better at the point than Timonen then why not put him there? This is the type of stuff that Laviolette gets paid to figure out.

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06-14-2013, 07:22 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You guys realize that some people are actually arguing that Streit will replace Kimmo on the 1st pp unit? Saying Kimmo will be moved to the 2nd is laughable. Why mess with something that isn't broken (1st pp unit)? Makes no sense, you'd keep the 1st unit intact and hopefully make the 2nd unit competent with the addition of Streit
It might make sense to trim some total TOI off of Timonen via the powerplay. Timonen is far better than Steit at even strength and on the PK, so shifting some of the PP time (not a ton, but maybe first unit duties) to Steit might be the best way to maximize each player.

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06-14-2013, 07:28 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Didn't the Flyers have the best PP% this year, or at least close to it? I don't remember either unit being incompetent without Streit. Streit will probably make the second unit better, but I don't think you need to act like the second unit was in shambles and Streit will possibly make the unit competent. A little over dramatic there.
The 2nd pp unit was not good. Here is the breakdown of pp points last season:

Giroux - 21pts
Voracek - 17pts
Timonen - 17pts
Simmonds - 16pts
B. Schenn - 10pts
Briere - 6pts
Hartnell - 5pts
Couturier - 4pts
Read - 3pts
Gagne - 3pts
Knuble - 2pts
Gustafsson - 1pt
Foster - 1pt
Meszaros - 1pt

Keep in mind that while Hartnell was out B Schenn played some on the first pp. Other then that there was very little movement. The second pp unit sucked...bad.

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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I'm not sure if the numbers back this up but from what I remember the 1st pp unit was absolutely deadly and I would put it up against any other unit in the league. However, the 2nd unit was mostly just thrown together from all our other parts (Schenn, Couturier, Read, Gagne, Knuble, McGinn, Coburn and L. Schenn manning the points, etc.) and was pretty terrible. Maybe not completely incompetent but pretty close, no cohesion or chemistry at all. The biggest problem with the second unit seemed to be that it didn't have a real quarterback or anyone to really bring the pieces together. Hopefully Streit can do that.
Absolutely

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06-14-2013, 07:28 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I'm not sure if the numbers back this up but from what I remember the 1st pp unit was absolutely deadly and I would put it up against any other unit in the league. However, the 2nd unit was mostly just thrown together from all our other parts (Schenn, Couturier, Read, Gagne, Knuble, McGinn, Coburn and L. Schenn manning the points, etc.) and was pretty terrible. Maybe not completely incompetent but pretty close, no cohesion or chemistry at all. The biggest problem with the second unit seemed to be that it didn't have a real quarterback or anyone to really bring the pieces together. Hopefully Streit can do that.
I don't remember it being bad. It obviously was not as potent as the top unit, but I wouldn't call it incompetent by an means.

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06-14-2013, 07:35 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Nothing is written in stone. Just because it works good doesn't mean it can't work better. If Pronger made a recovery, Timonen would be bumped from the top PP unit and no one would blink an eye. If Streit is better at the point than Timonen then why not put him there? This is the type of stuff that Laviolette gets paid to figure out.
And I get that but some are saying that Streit is Kimmo's replacement. How can you make such a claim when Kimmo has been arguable the Flyers best PPQB they've had in a long time? Why would things just change, is it a possibility sure but some are acting like Streit being on the 1st unit is written in stone. I'm just arguing otherwise, things need to change first (e.g. the 1st pp unit not working). You don't just make a change for no reason.

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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
It might make sense to trim some total TOI off of Timonen via the powerplay. Timonen is far better than Steit at even strength and on the PK, so shifting some of the PP time (not a ton, but maybe first unit duties) to Steit might be the best way to maximize each player.
It does make sense to try and limit Kimmo's ice time but I would rather that come from his pk duties. Kimmo is a great pp pt producer and pk minutes are more taxing. If anything I'd argue that Schenn, Grossmann, Coburn and Gus can take the majority of the pk duties.

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06-14-2013, 07:35 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't remember it being bad. It obviously was not as potent as the top unit, but I wouldn't call it incompetent by an means.
Then you weren't paying attention. The second unit was terrible

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06-14-2013, 07:37 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
And I get that but some are saying that Streit is Kimmo's replacement. How can you make such a claim when Kimmo has been arguable the Flyers best PPQB they've had in a long time? Why would things just change, is it a possibility sure but some are acting like Streit being on the 1st unit is written in stone. I'm just arguing otherwise, things need to change first (e.g. the 1st pp unit not working). You don't just make a change for no reason.



It does make sense to try and limit Kimmo's ice time but I would rather that come from his pk duties. Kimmo is a great pp pt producer and pk minutes are more taxing. If anything I'd argue that Schenn, Grossmann, Coburn and Gus can take the majority of the pk duties.
I find it unrealistic that we are going to not use Timonen in big moments on the PK. IMO, he's our best or second best PKer, too.

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06-14-2013, 07:41 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I find it unrealistic that we are going to not use Timonen in big moments on the PK. IMO, he's our best or second best PKer, too.
I'm not saying don't use him at all, just like I sure you weren't advocating not using him at all on the pp, but merely that his pk time could/should be cut back. If you need a big kill or it's a 5-3 then you obviously put him out there. And I agree it's unlikely, this is just what I would prefer to see as I think the team has players suited to fill that roll (maybe not as well but sufficiently).

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06-14-2013, 07:42 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
The 2nd pp unit was not good. Here is the breakdown of pp points last season:

Giroux - 21pts
Voracek - 17pts
Timonen - 17pts
Simmonds - 16pts
B. Schenn - 10pts
Briere - 6pts
Hartnell - 5pts
Couturier - 4pts
Read - 3pts
Gagne - 3pts
Knuble - 2pts
Gustafsson - 1pt
Foster - 1pt
Meszaros - 1pt

Keep in mind that while Hartnell was out B Schenn played some on the first pp. Other then that there was very little movement. The second pp unit sucked...bad.
Those look like competent numbers to me for a second power play unit. Again, I am not saying they were as good as the first unit, but those are not incompetent numbers. You have to realize that when your first unit is as good as ours was (which it was), there are a number of times when the second unit doesn't even get a chance. And when they do, it isn't always for as much time as the first unit. Again, I know the second unit was not as good and I am not saying that they were, but they certainly weren't bad or incompetent. Streit will improve them, but its not like without him the unit will be incompetent.

EDIT: What would a competent second unit look like? If they scored any more the Flyers would have been operating at a ridiculous pace, which would really be unrealistic as they were operating at nearly 50% as it is. Look at other second units around the league, even ones that were ranked above the Flyers, and I think you will see similar numbers.


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06-14-2013, 07:56 AM
  #320
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Those look like competent numbers to me for a second power play unit. Again, I am not saying they were as good as the first unit, but those are not incompetent numbers. You have to realize that when your first unit is as good as ours was (which it was), there are a number of times when the second unit doesn't even get a chance. And when they do, it isn't always for as much time as the first unit. Again, I know the second unit was not as good and I am not saying that they were, but they certainly weren't bad or incompetent. Streit will improve them, but its not like without him the unit will be incompetent.
Well I don't know what to tell you. When a player leads your 2nd unit with 6 pp pts something is wrong given the number of opportunities, even during this shortened season I would label that as incompetent (I think it more then fair to assume that B Schenn had at least 4 of his pp pts on the first unit while Hartnell was out given his two pp goals and 10 of his 24 pts on the year came in a 13 game period in February that Schenn was playing with Voracek and w/ 1st pp duties). I mean you could've thrown Talbot, Fed and a bunch of other 3rd and 4th liners and expect to see around 3pts in a 48 game season. When numbers are that low they aren't getting the job done.

And the bold above obviously needs to be taken into consideration but I don't see how you can look at those numbers and say that the 2nd unit was even decent. They were downright terrible at times and I didn't need to look up any numbers.

Quote:
EDIT: What would a competent second unit look like? If they scored any more the Flyers would have been operating at a ridiculous pace, which would really be unrealistic as they were operating at nearly 50% as it is. Look at other second units around the league, even ones that were ranked above the Flyers, and I think you will see similar numbers.
What am I missing here? 50 percent is a ridiculous number. The Flyers finished 3rd in the league with 21.6 percent behind Pitt (24.7) and Washington (26.8). A competent 2nd unit would have pushed them up 5 percent IMO. And you can't really compare the 2nd units of the Flyers to the 2nd units of Pitt as Pitts first unit was great. I mean considering they had Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal it's hard to image a better pp (I can't believe I just wrote that ). Also this is a percent we are talking about here so comparing pp pts from one team to another tells you nothing as it doesn't take into consideration the number of opportunities.


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06-14-2013, 08:27 AM
  #321
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I truly think if Gustafsson isn't made a regular NHLer this season then the Flyers have ruined his development and and should trade him for the sake of his career
I'm not a big Gus fan, but I definitely agree. He needs to be given every opportunity to be in the top 6 next year which is why Mez needs to be moved

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06-14-2013, 08:48 AM
  #322
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I don't remember it being bad. It obviously was not as potent as the top unit, but I wouldn't call it incompetent by an means.
It was terrible...

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06-14-2013, 08:48 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Well I don't know what to tell you. When a player leads your 2nd unit with 6 pp pts something is wrong given the number of opportunities, even during this shortened season I would label that as incompetent (I think it more then fair to assume that B Schenn had at least 4 of his pp pts on the first unit while Hartnell was out given his two pp goals and 10 of his 24 pts on the year came in a 13 game period in February that Schenn was playing with Voracek and w/ 1st pp duties). I mean you could've thrown Talbot, Fed and a bunch of other 3rd and 4th liners and expect to see around 3pts in a 48 game season. When numbers are that low they aren't getting the job done.

And the bold above obviously needs to be taken into consideration but I don't see how you can look at those numbers and say that the 2nd unit was even decent. They were downright terrible at times and I didn't need to look up any numbers.



What am I missing here? 50 percent is a ridiculous number. The Flyers finished 3rd in the league with 21.6 percent behind Pitt (24.7) and Washington (26.8). A competent 2nd unit would have pushed them up 5 percent IMO. And you can't really compare the 2nd units of the Flyers to the 2nd units of Pitt as Pitts first unit was great. I mean considering they had Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal it's hard to image a better pp (I can't believe I just wrote that ). Also this is a percent we are talking about here so comparing pp pts from one team to another tells you nothing as it doesn't take into consideration the number of opportunities.
Haha, I'm not sure why I wrote 50%, it should have said 25%, which is also a pretty high number in terms of power play percentage. Haha. Either way, my argument stands. Look at the stats of other second units and tell me that the Flyers are any different. The first unit, especially when it is as good as the Flyers' first unit is, SHOULD score substantially more than the second unit. Most top units, for a number of reasons (better players, more time, more opportunities, etc) will have more points than the second unit. I think that you'll find that the second unit of the Flyers is on the same page as the second unit of much of the NHL. I'm not saying the Flyers second unit is the best in the NHL or anything special, but they are hardly terrible or incompetent.

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06-14-2013, 09:04 AM
  #324
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Haha, I'm not sure why I wrote 50%, it should have said 25%, which is also a pretty high number in terms of power play percentage. Haha. Either way, my argument stands. Look at the stats of other second units and tell me that the Flyers are any different. The first unit, especially when it is as good as the Flyers' first unit is, SHOULD score substantially more than the second unit. Most top units, for a number of reasons (better players, more time, more opportunities, etc) will have more points than the second unit. I think that you'll find that the second unit of the Flyers is on the same page as the second unit of much of the NHL. I'm not saying the Flyers second unit is the best in the NHL or anything special, but they are hardly terrible or incompetent.
Agree do disagree then. I know what you are saying is true in that outside of a teams first unit pp there will be a drop off in pts and I never disputed that. I didn't expect the Flyers 2nd unit to be tearing it up or to be as good as the 1st unit by any means but they could and should be better IMO. I think most people who watched this season would agree with me on that but this is all opinion so I can't tell you you're wrong as much as you could tell me that I'm wrong. And again you can't really compare stats to other teams around the league as there are other factors to consider like the players themselves, the number of opportunities, a teams depth etc.

Edit: It may very well be true that the Flyers 2nd unit is just average when compared to other NHL teams' 2nd (again no real way to compare considering all the factors) unit but that doesn't mean they're good. That's like saying I got a 50 percent on my genetics test but being as though the average was around 50 it's ok (the avg scores in my genetic class were actually worse sometimes ). It's not it's still a failing grade. This is just the way I look at it.


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06-14-2013, 09:17 AM
  #325
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Agree do disagree then. I know what you are saying is true in that outside of a teams first unit pp there will be a drop off in pts and I never disputed that. I didn't expect the Flyers 2nd unit to be tearing it up or to be as good as the 1st unit by any means but they could and should be better IMO. I think most people who watched this season would agree with me on that but this is all opinion so I can't tell you you're wrong as much as you could tell me that I'm wrong. And again you can't really compare stats to other teams around the league as there are other factors to consider like the players themselves, the number of opportunities, a teams depth etc.

Edit: It may very well be true that the Flyers 2nd unit is just average when compared to other NHL teams' 2nd (again no real way to compare considering all the factors) unit but that doesn't mean they're good. That's like saying I got a 50 percent on my genetics test but being as though the average was around 50 it's ok (the avg scores in my genetic class were actually worse sometimes ). It's not it's still a failing grade. This is just the way I look at it.
Fair enough. I am in full agreement that Streit will help the 2nd pp unit, and that Timonen should in no way be replaced by Streit on the top unit. I just never looked at the second unit as a problem last year or even as being bad. Never thought they were necessarily good, but I was never concerned with "fixing" the second unit, outside of the obvious desire to always want to improve.

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