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Old
06-14-2013, 07:38 AM
  #51
Nac Mac Feegle
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Yes.

There are a couple goalies out there right now: Bernier, Luongo/Schneider, Emery, Halak, Elliott, Hiller, etc, that could be had for a reasonable price.

It's not like Lundqvist is worlds better than anyone else in the NHL right now. There's really not a whole lot to differentiate between the top 10-15 goalies in the league. It's not like it was back in the 1980s where some goalies are great, and others look like they belong in a beer league.

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:48 AM
  #52
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Yes I would

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Megustaelhockey View Post
No. I'd still rather win 1-0 than lose 9-8.
Tuuka Rask and Braden Holtby were almost as good if not as good as Hank these playoffs. If we change our system and stop packing it in we will not need an elite goalie to have a shot at the cup. Stamkos changes everything. I would do it.

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #54
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Hank has dragged teams kicking and screaming into the playoffs.

Stamkos has done that...how many times?

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
We have a better defense than the lightning, that's true. But good enough that Marty Biron is going to be able to help us win a championship? Nope.
You are allowed after making this trade to make another one to upgrade the goalie position. Maybe trade a center now that Stamkos has strengthened that position and our PP.

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:54 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
And like I said, Stamkos affecting the play of other players has certainly led them to a ton of playoff success...
Hank doesn't have the rep as the best playoff performer himself.

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:57 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Hank doesn't have the rep as the best playoff performer himself.
At least he can bring a team to the playoffs with consistency.

Anybody that thinks he doesn't stand on his head in the playoffs is blind.

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:58 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
A lot of good points, but the bolded is fact that is usually taken for granted, I'd agree.
Not in the playoffs he's not. He gave Boston two games and then stole one. But his inconsistency in that series did not get us any closer to a cup.

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06-14-2013, 07:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
At least he can bring a team to the playoffs with consistency.

Anybody that thinks he doesn't stand on his head in the playoffs is blind.
Thank you. How many goals does this team score in the playoffs? Like 1.5?

Look at Stamkos' goals. MSL is feeding him consistently.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:00 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You are allowed after making this trade to make another one to upgrade the goalie position. Maybe trade a center now that Stamkos has strengthened that position and our PP.
When talking about trading Henrik I don't deal in hypotheticals

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:05 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You are allowed after making this trade to make another one to upgrade the goalie position. Maybe trade a center now that Stamkos has strengthened that position and our PP.
Schneider would be perfectly capable of winning a cup.

Hagelin-Stamkos-Zuccarello
Kreider-Stepan-Nash
??????-Brassard-Callahan
??????-Lindberg-Boyle

Who gets traded for Schneider though?

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:09 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
At least he can bring a team to the playoffs with consistency.

Anybody that thinks he doesn't stand on his head in the playoffs is blind.
Anyone who thinks he stands on his head in the playoffs is blind. Now what Sparky? He gave Boston games 1 and 3 and was badly outplayed by Rask in both. Getting a team to the playoffs is good for Dolan but it doesn't mean **** if you lose your last game.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Anyone who thinks he stands on his head in the playoffs is blind. Now what Sparky? He gave Boston games 1 and 3 and was badly outplayed by Rask in both. Getting a team to the playoffs is good for Dolan but it doesn't mean **** if you lose your last game.
Our whole team was outplayed. The only reason they were in any of those game was because of Henrik.

If/When Henrik is gone, it's guys like this who will realize just how good they had it.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:15 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
No. Best goalie in the world. You keep players like him.
Great goalie > great scorer

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:32 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Great goalie > great scorer
23-year old great scorer > 31-year old great goalie

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:35 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
23-year old great scorer > 31-year old great goalie
Hank can play till 40 easily, look at Brodeur, goaltending is more important, especially when you're the best goalie in the world, just my opinion...

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:37 AM
  #67
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This is a pair of statistics that Taco MacArthur created. It's a linear transformation of save percentage.

The statistics presented:

GD (Goal Differential): how many goals more (or less) a netminder gives up than a league-average NHL goaltender per 1000 shots.

GARG (Goals Above Replacement Goalie): how many goals more (or less) a netminder gives up than a replacement-level NHL goaltender per 1000 shots. I define "replacement level" to be a save percentage 0.015 below league average. Replacement level goaltenders are plentiful and easily available.

Note: to calculate the league-average NHL goaltender, I used a sample population of netminders who played minimum of 8 games in the 2013 season. This was 57 netminders.

2013 NHL GOALTENDERS
Player Age Tm GD GARG
Craig Anderson 31 OTT -30 -45
Robin Lehner 21 OTT -25 -40
Sergei Bobrovsky 24 CBJ -21 -36
Tuukka Rask 25 BOS -18 -33
Cory Schneider 26 VAN -16 -31
Henrik Lundqvist 30 NYR -15 -30
Corey Crawford 28 CHI -15 -30
Antti Niemi 29 SJS -13 -28
James Reimer 24 TOR -13 -28
Jimmy Howard 28 DET -12 -27
Jason LaBarbera 33 PHX -12 -27
Nikolai Khabibulin 40 EDM -12 -27
Ray Emery 30 CHI -11 -26
Jonathan Bernier 24 LAK -11 -26
Devan Dubnyk 26 EDM -10 -25
Viktor Fasth 30 ANA -10 -25
Braden Holtby 23 WSH -9 -24
Ben Bishop 26 TOT -9 -24
Anton Khudobin 26 BOS -9 -24
Tomas Vokoun 36 PIT -8 -23
Jhonas Enroth 24 BUF -8 -23
Kari Lehtonen 29 DAL -5 -20
Marc-Andre Fleury 28 PIT -5 -20
Steve Mason 24 TOT -5 -20
Ryan Miller 32 BUF -4 -19
Ben Scrivens 26 TOR -4 -19
Jonas Hiller 30 ANA -2 -17
Pekka Rinne 30 NSH 1 -14
Evgeni Nabokov 37 NYI 1 -14
Mike Smith 30 PHX 1 -14
Michal Neuvirth 24 WSH 1 -14
Niklas Backstrom 34 MIN 2 -13
Jean-Sebastien Giguere 35 COL 3 -12
Cam Ward 28 CAR 3 -12
Peter Budaj 30 MTL 3 -12
Brian Elliott 27 STL 4 -11
Roberto Luongo 33 VAN 4 -11
Dan Ellis 32 CAR 5 -10
Ondrej Pavelec 25 WPG 6 -9
Carey Price 25 MTL 6 -9
Jake Allen 22 STL 6 -9
Semyon Varlamov 24 COL 8 -7
Jonathan Quick 27 LAK 9 -6
Anders Lindback 24 TBL 9 -6
Joey MacDonald 32 CGY 9 -6
Martin Brodeur 40 NJD 10 -5
Jacob Markstrom 23 FLA 10 -5
Ilya Bryzgalov 32 PHI 11 -4
Jaroslav Halak 27 STL 12 -3
Mathieu Garon 35 TBL 14 -1
Jose Theodore 36 FLA 18 3
Justin Peters 26 CAR 20 5
Richard Bachman 25 DAL 26 11
Johan Hedberg 39 NJD 28 13
Miikka Kiprusoff 36 CGY 29 14
Scott Clemmensen 35 FLA 37 22
Chris Mason 36 NSH 38 23

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:42 AM
  #68
KreiMeARiver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I know I am pretty alone no this, but Steve Stamkos isn't all that high up on a list of players if I could choose among everyone in the NHL.

No matter how good a sniper is, you only get certain things from a sniper.

Hence why Tampa just isn't that good. I just think guys like Doughty, a healthy Sid or Malkin is on a diffrent planet in terms of value compared to Stamkos.

I get the point in trading Hank. Since it will not happen, I've never seriously suggested it, but I have for fun included him in some proposals over the years. You can never get a 10m performance from a 1m forward, a forward impacts the game on a shift by shift basis and even if a Jeff Toms scores 3 goals in one game on some kind of objective level the overall impact of that one game is still not compareable to a Malkin if you get what I mean.

But, there are probably 200 goalies in the world who once in a while plays 60 minutes of hockey just as good as Hank. A top 20 goalie can during 25 games play really close to Hank hockey. Besides, Nik Bäckström the goalie is like available and can be had for 6m per. He is a good goalie that can win a cup no doubt.

I am not sold on if id move Hank for on (1) sniper.
not sure if serious

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:46 AM
  #69
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The return in trades involving goaltenders are notoriously bad.

I'd do it. I dont think Tampa would.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:55 AM
  #70
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No, I would not do that trade. Who's going to be our goalie? Biron? No thanks. Need to have a plan with a plan.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:56 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The return in trades involving goaltenders are notoriously bad.

I'd do it. I dont think Tampa would.
Agreed. I'd do it but Tampa would never touch it. Bishop seems to be playing pretty well for them, and I think once Lindback gets his head right he should be a quality starter.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:58 AM
  #72
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Of course I would. But it would never happen.

You make a small flip and get Viktor Fasth from Anaheim.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:14 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Of course I would. But it would never happen.

You make a small flip and get Viktor Fasth from Anaheim.
Just like that? Didn't know it was that easy.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:16 AM
  #74
Fitzy
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It's an example. There are a lot of available competent goaltenders out there.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:20 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Of course I would. But it would never happen.

You make a small flip and get Viktor Fasth from Anaheim.
Not sure if anyone saw the stats on Fasth before and after the league made him adjust the size of his pads? Apparantly he was playing with pads that were too large when he first got here (when he was unbelievably good).
After the change, he was mediocre.

With the upcoming equipment changes the league is talking about, we don't know which goalies will be impacted. I would think Hank could be. Nobody uses their pads and covers the bottom half of the net better than Hank. If they shorten those pads and open the five hole a little what happens?

If we could have a deal for his replacement (Bernier?) in place, I make the Stamkos for Hank deal in a heartbeat.

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